BLI F-7s....WHY??????????

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry but DO WE REALLY NEED MORE F-7s???

I'm well aware of BLI and what they give us and I DO appreciate them raising the bar, so to speak.

However, with all the other needed and neglected electrics,diesels and steamers (not to mention cars!) out there begging to be built why do we need yet another F-7?

Just my thoughts...fire when ready!!!!

Roger

[Anonymous]

I am out of the ring with model railroading but figure models other
then F-7,s are needed and whats the price factor as things are really geting out
of Hand.I would love to see several Baldwin,s.

Stay hopeful

David Brown

[ndbprr]

there must be some unwritten rule that if you are in the model rairlorad business you have to have an f unit in your catalog of offerings.

[the-big-blow]

I ask that question of myself every morning I get out of bed.

[AggroJones]

Exactly! It's kinda weird BLI chose to do an F7, even with sound. All the other F-units out there, but they still elected to do it. WHY? I'm sure you diesel fans have something else in mind that hasn't been done in high-end plastic. Mabey some popular Alco or Baldwin units.

[cacole]

Well, people must be buying them or there wouldn't be so many different companies making them. The tooling is probably pretty quick and simple, too, when compared to something that had more indentations and protrusions, such as Alco, Baldwin, and earlier diesels.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by huber25

I'm sorry but DO WE REALLY NEED MORE F-7s???

I'm well aware of BLI and what they give us and I DO appreciate them raising the bar, so to speak.

However, with all the other needed and neglected electrics,diesels and steamers (not to mention cars!) out there begging to be built why do we need yet another F-7?

Just my thoughts...fire when ready!!!!

Roger

Roger,

The BLI steamer are great models, most never built before in good quality and in this pricesector before!

And I asked my dealer exact the same question like you. We don´t know the answer. Genesis made and makes a superb job with the F´s.
And the AC6000 is a good decision by BLI but the E7?

Each manufactor makes a marketresearch before starting the construction. And while the Genesis F´s is available since few years they see a market for the BLI F7 !!!!!
THAT`S REAL COURIOUS !
[^] [:D] [%-)] [sigh]

What will be the market for BLI´s F7 (some with same roadnumbers like Genesis - AT&SF war bonnet #37LABC).

The real winner is the DCC party. Becomes a DCC ready F7 with sound - thats all.

In the details the BLI will be no real evolution! [:)] I don´t need locomotives with sound - Sound is a gimmick. Funny, yeah I like it, but a gimmick!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

BigBoy4015

It seems like many of us like sound and wish it were more affordable. Based on how our economy works sound will be "cheaper eventually".

I must respectfully disagree with you as far as sound being a "Gimmick".
"Gimmicks" as we're most familiar with, are "short lived" and popular for a "brief time" in the market.

Sound, whether onboard or remote, is becoming muh more popular and is HERE TO STAY. As mentioned by me and other modelers on past threads, many of us "over 30" had been hoping for years to be able to have HO or N scale locomotives with sound. Well, they're here!! Many of us complain about the prices (me too), but are still glad that the techology has advanced where the concept has finally come from the drawing board to the palms of our hands.

Plus, the manufacturers are not sitting on this either. They're working to improve the their products and within the next 2 to 3 years, more competition will be entering the market to compete with QSI and Soundtraxx ; which are at the top of the "Sound Food Chain".

Some of the teen modelers on these threads with computer & electronic inclinations may the be the very ones that will influence this technology in the next decade.

Take Care, Amigo! [:D][8D][;)][:)]

AntonioFP45,

I´m 36 and wrote that I like the sound too, but when I must make a decision between tractive effort and sound I vote for the first! MY N&W Class A has a big sized tender, so the sound is good, and the Lionel turbine sounds good because the body is diecast!

You will see sometimes the possible speakersize and a plastic body make decissions easy!

Take a look into QSI´s pricelist and you are surprised. BLI sells cheap models and Lionle too! One soundmodule costs 189 $, and we talk about modules that are available since years. (The QSI module that Lionel use in the Veranda is available since 1998!) -

Okay, but the main question was: WHO NEEDS THE NEXT H0 EMD F7? And tis question needs an answer.

I had ordered a ABBA UP BLI E7 set for replace my LL2000 set with Dummy B-units. And the set was canceled when LL2000 anounced the E8/E9 pairs a few weeks later. Powerful and a very good price - less than 50% of the BLI - was the reason!
I operate conventional DC - have enough computers in job - and doesn´t need DCC.

[emdgp92]

I just have to ask... How many different F7 models do we really need? I'd like to see something different, maybe some Baldwin hood units, or some unusual Alcos. What about an E40 electric in either NH or PC paint? That would be pretty sweet!

[Anonymous]

Perhaps they are doing the F-7 for another good reason for doing things. They can!

[CP5415]

Ya why? Is the market for F units not flooded enough already. I guess not.
Oh well. I wish someone would mass produce a model that wasn't a car body.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

Ya why? Is the market for F units not flooded enough already. I guess not.
Oh well. I wish someone would mass produce a model that wasn't a car body.

Just my 2 cents

Gordon

Your right granted, but: BLI made no announcements and pay for the construction when there is no market !

That´s it!

I also do not understand the decision.

And it´s correct, there is a huge fleet of nonmodeled prototypes - early GE´s, EMD´s SDL39, Baldwin´s, Alco´s, Lima-Hamilton´s........ or my favorites:
The second batch - hoodunits - of Southern Pacifics Krauss Maffei diesel hydraulics with a real widecab. (or Alcos Southern Pacifics DH643 diesel-hydraulic´s)

However I´m a realist - how many models will they sell?

[AntonioFP45]

Very good points, guys.

You're right, the market has been FLOODED with HO scale F7s since at least the 1970s. As mentioned BLI probably bases their decision on market stats. This may be a good thing though as because there are so many F7s on the market, they might not sell as well as expected and may go on sale down the line, (wishful thinking).

I do wonder if it will run as smoothly and be as nicely detailed as a Stewart F7.

Would still love to see BLI produce one of the old GE U-Boats. The prototypes were LOUD and at full throttle, they could be heard miles away.

10-4![;)][:)][8D][:D]

[fmilhaupt]

'seems simple enough to me:

1) They want to offer the entire California Zephyr, loco to drumhead sign, and currently don't have suitable accurate power in production to cover all segments of the trip.

2) The WP and D&RGW used F units to pull the CZ on their segments of the run.

3) The Burlington used E8s, but they also had a few passenger-equipped F units.

This makes it possible for them to sell an "all-BLI California Zephyr". Never underestimate the appeal of one-stop shopping.

And then, taking the broader view:

1) Nobody else offers an RTR sound-equipped F unit, in the current market. That sound-equipped gimmick sells. They're betting that a good number of people will opt for a more-expensive sound-equipped model of unknown detail quality rather than a less-expensive existing model without sound. I think that they may be right.

2) The number of roadnames they can use on the F7 is large.

3) The Santa Fe warbonnet scheme on an F unit will always sell out, no matter how many companies have run it before.

I am kind of curious about the claim that the sound system they plan to use will represent dual diesel engines... I hope that is just a web site editing error, and that they don't really plan to simulate the sound of dual prime movers in a locomotive that only had one...

[nfmisso]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Would still love to see BLI produce one of the old GE U-Boats. The prototypes were LOUD and at full throttle, they could be heard miles away.

LL P2K is doing the U28B and U30B, with QSI® optional.

[Anonymous]

I really wi***hey'd use their production capacity on models that aren't duplicating existing ones. Genesis has the whole F unit production pretty well covered. I'd like to see some more unusual stock like an E5 - I know it's a single-roadname variant but similarly limited steamers have been tooled, and the E5 would be able to use the drive system from their existing E units - only a new shell would be needed. An FL9 would also be a good choice - they ran in heavily populated areas so would surely have a good number of admirers who might be talked into buying a model. Duplicating existing models makes little or no sense to me, unless the duplicate is a massive improvement on the original.

[AntonioFP45]

Fritz,

Dual diesels? You're right in that the prototypes came with a single EMD 567 diesel under the sheetmetal and the E-units came equipped with a pair of 567s.

Probably just a typo, since BLI does have dual diesel sounds in their E7. I'm looking forward to hearing their F7.

On a prototype note: If any of you travel or vacation in the U.S Southeast, check out Stone Mountain in Georgia. There is a train ride and two of the locomotives in the fleet are FP7s. So take a cam-corder or tape recorder that can record sound well!

[AntonioFP45]

Nigel (Nfmisso)

Thanks for the heads up! I forgot that P2K is coming out with the U30B! Looking forward to it.

[simon1966]

OK, so we all agree that the F units have been done to death. However, if you were going to buy a new F unit today, how many are actually readily available on the market. My undertanding is that many of the Genesis versions are sold out. I have no idea of the size of production run that BLI is making, but I suspect that they have figured that they can unload the entire production run. Personally , I can see the logic of being the first to market with a sound equipped version of such a popular model.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Very good points, guys.

You're right, the market has been FLOODED with HO scale F7s since at least the 1970s. As mentioned BLI probably bases their decision on market stats. This may be a good thing though as because there are so many F7s on the market, they might not sell as well as expected and may go on sale down the line, (wishful thinking).

I do wonder if it will run as smoothly and be as nicely detailed as a Stewart F7.

Would still love to see BLI produce one of the old GE U-Boats. The prototypes were LOUD and at full throttle, they could be heard miles away.

10-4![;)][:)][8D][:D]

Antonio, if BLI wants do to an F unit, they should be doing an FP45/F45, wouldn't you agree?[;)][^]

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Big Boy!

As Paul3 pointed out before, those units were mainly used on a few Western roads. BLI is hurting now, and they need to concentrate on units with mass appeal.

They were smart to produce the E7 and the switchers, for example as these were units that were literally used all over the U.S and Canada.

The GG1 is a northeast unit, but it's a famous locomotive and there are "oodles and oodles" of Pennsy modelers in the U.S. Can't blame them though. Pennsylvania became legendery.

I questioned BLI's wisdom at first, but if they do a good job, that F7 indeed may be a good seller. As I stated before, I really hope it's as a nice runner as the Stewart F7. Stewart really did an exceptional job on their F7.

For you and me, regarding our favorite cowls, the solution is still available though a little expensive. Just take the Athearn unit, repower it with a Mashima, and install a Soundtraxx decoder in it. (I'm still waiting on the Tsunami). One advantage we have is that there is a genorous amount of room inside the body.

Sound equipped cowls may be on the horizon, but we're looking at a few years at least. So as a maintenance guy told me years ago on the job: "Tony, you got to work with what you got!" I often remember that.

Take care, guy. Hopefully by this winter, I'll have a Tsunami equipped cowl to show on this forum by way of video link. Complete with working Gyra Lights!

[Leon Silverman]

Big Boy 4015:
You stated that every manufacturer does market research. Assuming this assumption is true (in the sense that the research is not outsourced so that each manufacturer hires the same market research agency), and each study determines that there is a market for, say, 2000 F-7s, if this research is done simultaneously by three different manufacturers, the market will then see 6000 F-7s put on the market at the same time.
I mentioned previously about Bowser taking a bath on their PRR cabooses. They got stuck because the PRR design cannot properly be decorated for Reading, New Haven, UP, ATSF, Great Northern, etc.
To paraphrase the Sarah Lee Baking company's slogan "Nobody doesn't like Sarah Lee", practically no railroad that existed in the fifties did not have an F-unit. Offering an F-7 unit virtually guarantees that the manufacturer will get a return on their investment.
In defense of BLI's E- and F- offerings, MRC is the only other manufacturer who has offered attennas on their PRR engines in a regular production run. As I recall, also, the Product Review on the MRC diesels were not too favorable.
I hope the "World'sGreatest Hobby" promotion are successful, but right now it seems very difficult to determine what quantities of a given model can be produced and offered at a low enough price that makes the resultant demand profitable to the manufacturers.

[trainboyH16-44]

I actually wouldn't mind an FP7 in the market. I know that there are many manufacturers that have offered F7s in the past decade, but I can never seem to find one when I look.
Trainboy

[Anonymous]

trainboy,

You're in luck. Intermountain is releasing HO FP7s this year!

[Don Gibson]

Each Manufacturer has 'raised the bar' Let's pick on ATSF war bonnet.
(I'm intentionally leaving some out) OK?

50 year's ago we had Athearn's F-7 with FP-7boiler vent's & rubber band drive.
Enter Mantua / Tyco' A unit with rubber tired wheels and 'Suitcase' drive.
Enter Athearn with 8 wheel drive.
Enter Stewart with better Kato drive.
Enter I.M. with 'see thru' grilles.
Enter Genesis with directional lighting.
Enter BLI with sound

PROTO 1000 and Bachmann and Marx are scavenging for the lo-end leftover's.

How am I doin'?

I'd like to see my F's w/o fuel tank skirts, but INVESTORS will demand what $ELL$

[Anonymous]

I probably would take the BLI F7's as they are with DCC and Sound. I have been watching this for some time.

One of these days there will be a deseil consist besides my LL2000 ABBA of B&O FA units. With sound.

The BLI's NW7 Switcher is a great start except that the speaker is too quiet for me.

[mustanggt]

QUOTE: Posted: 23 Apr 2004, 10:59:22
I'm sorry but DO WE REALLY NEED MORE F-7s???

I'm well aware of BLI and what they give us and I DO appreciate them raising the bar, so to speak.

However, with all the other needed and neglected electrics,diesels and steamers (not to mention cars!) out there begging to be built why do we need yet another F-7?

Just my thoughts...fire when ready!!!!

Maybe Model railroader should have an F unit shootout, like car and driver does with european luxury cars[:p]

Dave