4-12-2 Locomotive

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

Does anyone make a 4-12-2 in any scale?

[Hudson]

Yup. Key Imports and I think Overland made quite a few in HO brass.

[CAZEPHYR]

Yup. Key Imports and I think Overland made quite a few in HO brass.

 

LMB, Sunset, Key and Tenshodo have all made the 9000 series Union Pacific 4-12-2.  The last run from Key is one of the best and most accurate models made, but it was seventeen hundred list a couple of years ago. 

 The Sunset 4-12-2 show up on Ebay and at shops used for about $500 or so.  If you have to ask what the Key or Tenshodo's would cost today, you probably don't want one of those.

 CZ

 

[tsgtbob]

Kohs did one in O scale a few years back, but expect to spend boucoup dollars for one of them (if you can find one)

[dinwitty]

I think this engine is a candidate forBLI/PCM to consider making

[markpierce]

I think this engine is a candidate forBLI/PCM to consider making

I wonder what compromises BLI would make to have it negotiate 18" radius curves (in HO).

Mark

[Rotorranch]

I think this engine is a candidate forBLI/PCM to consider making

I wonder what compromises BLI would make to have it negotiate 18" radius curves (in HO).

Mark

And how much lead time?

Rotor

[Hoople]

I've emailed BLI. Several times. They say they have plans for one.

[PA&ERR]

Now the important question...

Will it run on 18" radius curves?

-George

[tsgtbob]

I spoke with an owner of the Kohs' O scale 4-12-2. He said it needs at least a 120 radius curve! And easements really help it get through that!

However, a Kohs brass locomotive is truly a work of art, (even though some have commented the boiler taper is off on this one)  as well as one of the best running makes out there.

[ndbprr]

I could be wrong I am sometimes but I think the only flanged drivers are the front and rear set so BLI might not have to do anyting but put really wide tires on one

[twhite]

I think--and I could be wrong on this--that the center (3rd) driver on the 4-12-2 was blank.  I know that the Sunset brass model requires about a 32" minimum radius, and works much better on at least a 34". 

Tom

[twhite]

David--

You're right--found a side-on view in one of my locomotive books.  All flanged. 

WHEW! 

Tom

[Fergmiester]

Saw one on e-bay a week or two ago going for between $6-700 if memory serves me correctly. Don't know if it was sold or not. The 32" radius curves suprised me as I know Brass 2-10-4's require 30"+ radius.

Fergus

[twhite]

Fergie--

The Sunset 4-12-2 came with an alternate 'blank' 3rd driver for squeezing by on a 32" radius and has quite a bit of side-play on the other drivers.  I'm with you on long-wheelbased non-articulateds, though.  My PSC Rio Grande 2-10-2 is recommended for nothing under a 32" radius.  Luckily my smallest radius is 34", but even then it seems happier on my 36".   Frankly, I couldn't imagine running a 4-12-2 on the Yuba River Sub, even with my more generous curves.   

Tom

[7j43k]

A minor point, but #9000 (the first one) was delivered with a blind #3 & #4 driver set.  Very soon after delivery, the #3 driver set was changed to flanged.  I don't believe the #4 set was ever converted to flanged--a visit to the LA County fairgrounds to visit #9000 would clear that up.  All the other 4-12-2's were "all flanged all the time".

This information was obtained from Kratville's "The Union Pacific Type".

Ed

[ragnar]

I wonder what compromises BLI would make to have it negotiate 18" radius curves (in HO).

Mark

Exactly why BLI wont get any of my monies....too many compromises to satisfy the small-radius users....

David B 

Guess they could always put a door hinge in the center of the boiler !

[Margaritaman]

a visit to the LA County fairgrounds to visit #9000 would clear that up.

I was just there yesterday.  A very awe inspiring locomotive, especially when I stood my 4ft tall daughter next to it!

[Renegade1c]

I think this engine is a candidate forBLI/PCM to consider making

I wonder what compromises BLI would make to have it negotiate 18" radius curves (in HO).

Mark

No matter the scale... its a track straightener.

[7j43k]

A minor point, but #9000 (the first one) was delivered with a blind #3 & #4 driver set.  Very soon after delivery, the #3 driver set was changed to flanged.  I don't believe the #4 set was ever converted to flanged--a visit to the LA County fairgrounds to visit #9000 would clear that up.  All the other 4-12-2's were "all flanged all the time".

This information was obtained from Kratville's "The Union Pacific Type".

Ed

Again, look at the above picture.....all the drives are flanged...

David B

That picture's a little grainy for me, but I found a couple of other pictures in Volume 19 of the UPHS Prototype Locomotive Photo book.  On page 4 is a picture of #9000 that appears to me to be missing a flange on the #4 driver.  On page 5 is a picture of same that appears to me to have a flange on the #4 driver.  Assuming my photo interpretation is correct, #9000 received a flanged #4 driver set between August 21, 1927 and August 31, 1938.  So, I agree that certainly after 1938, all the 9000's were all flanged.

 

I'd still like to go see #9000 for confirmation, but only to visit one of my favorite locomotives.

 

Ed

 

 

[dinwitty]

I think this engine is a candidate forBLI/PCM to consider making

I wonder what compromises BLI would make to have it negotiate 18" radius curves (in HO).

Mark

No matter the scale... its a track straightener.

 

BOING!!!!

It will need some amount of springyness.

They could supply alternate drivers (blinded on or off, likely blinded on by default)

18" radius, I don't think so, 22" to 24", this is why articulated engines :D

But given Rivarrossi to get a test I did of a big Boy on 15" tenderless, nothing's impossible...

Designed right you could get them on the sharper curves. 

 

[twhite]

I have to admit that even though I find the UP 9000's to be a rather impressive loco, I have trouble figuring the reason for such a long-wheelbased non-articulated locomotive (especially with 67" drivers).  I'm not that familiar with UP non-articulated steam power on the whole, but wouldn't such an extremely long wheelbase pretty much limit the locomotive's use to just one or two divisions?  Or am I wrong in that assumption?  I know that the UP had over 80 of the type, so they must have been pretty successful.  I just can't see any of them heading into the curves of the Wasatch or working the very windy Salt Lake/LA extension. 

I know that the Alco 4-10-2's of the Southern Pacific didn't last very long on the Donner Pass route because of their tendency to 'straighten out' the track in the snowsheds.  In fact the flanges were known to 'peel off' the inside of the rails. 

Just curious.

Tom

[Hoople]

Tom, you guess correctly. The 9000's only ran on the plains. They barely made the run to California to the musuem, and they only did it going 1/4 the speed limit.

[Texas Zepher]

Does anyone make a 4-12-2 in any scale?

My friend, who is a hard core UP fan, kit bashed his own using the boiler from a Bowser Challenger.

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

I read a 60s RMC once where Hal Carstens (I think) mentioned a previous article (probably by Bill Schopp) in which a brass 4-12-2 was made to go around 22" radius curves. As I recall, the flanges were turned off the first, third, fourth, and sixth drivers, which were also lifted slightly off the rail to ensure they'd not snag -- probably a thousandth or two. The lead truck was spread a little, and I think some work was done at the trailing truck. The loco took the curve, but "looked rather foolish with the overhang", to paraphrase HC's words. Could have been Bill S. writing that, too. The writer also said, however, that lighter mods, I forget what, :( allowed the loco to take more reasonable but still relatively sharp curves...30" or perhaps 28".

[Autobus Prime]

Does anyone make a 4-12-2 in any scale?

My friend, who is a hard core UP fan, kit bashed his own using the boiler from a Bowser Challenger.