Truth vs. Fiction

[Anonymous]

A very well-known man said, decades ago, "People will believe any lie, as long as you say it loud enough and long enough." Who? Answer at the end of this post.

I mention this because, for some reason, posters have been accusing me of things I have never done on this board, and then others have starting agreeing with them.

Check it out. I have never:

-Threatened anyone, of any age on this board (although I have been threatened).

-Said teen or kids are bad, stupid, or anything of the kind.

But for the sole reason that I said young people were responsible for the majority of the off-topic posts here (and they are, if you go back and check that, too), people are now making up posts that suggest I am a Bad Person Who Hates Teens.

Y'all are spending lots of time echoing each other on what a bitter person I am, all the while making up stories about how I roast and eat children or whatever fits your agenda. And I even have stalker on this board who follows me around, saying just that after each post I make. How mature that is!

For a group that wants to get back to talking about tains, you're sure making an effort to make me look like I've said things I haven't instead of talking about trains.

And who said that first quote, the one about lying long enough and people will believe you?

Why, that was Adolf Hitler.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

A very well-known man said, decades ago, "People will believe any lie, as long as you say it loud enough and long enough." Who? Answer at the end of this post.

I mention this because, for some reason, posters have been accusing me of things I have never done on this board, and then others have starting agreeing with them.

Check it out. I have never:

-Threatened anyone, of any age on this board (although I have been threatened).

-Said teen or kids are bad, stupid, or anything of the kind.

But for the sole reason that I said young people were responsible for the majority of the off-topic posts here (and they are, if you go back and check that, too), people are now making up posts that suggest I am a Bad Person Who Hates Teens.

Y'all are spending lots of time echoing each other on what a bitter person I am, all the while making up stories about how I roast and eat children or whatever fits your agenda. And I even have stalker on this board who follows me around, saying just that after each post I make. How mature that is!

For a group that wants to get back to talking about tains, you're sure making an effort to make me look like I've said things I haven't instead of talking about trains.

And who said that first quote, the one about lying long enough and people will believe you?

Why, that was Adolf Hitler.

ACL I think part of the problem is that when you say something that is truthfull it can also be hurtfull to some people. IE tresspassing on RR property is illegal, for example, Yes it is, and yes, almost every foamer accepts that but that doesnt negate the fact that people dont like to be told the truth, they can get downright defensive and angry about it. I try to not let anything anyone says to me on this forum get past the computer screen, Guess I'm just thick hided.

PS the quote about "tell a lie long enough and you'll be beleived" was literally being quoted by Republican party leaders as far back during the Whitewater/Clinton investigations. I dont believe anything that comes out of thier mouths now.

PS I used to be Republican[;)]

[AntonioFP45]

Hello ACL fan.

[8D]You're right on the mark. Basically it seems that we're going to have to be "thick skinned" as VSmith has indicated. Not all, but a few young people become defensive or antagonistic when they feel they're being verbally "attacked" or "dissed" and sometimes for us, letting it go or responding in a warm way is best (even though it can be diificult) . As a young person I remember getting defensive almost immedietly over stuff that to the average over 30 adult would have been no big deal - as our young people will eventually experience.

Recently on the Layouts & DCC threads (see HELLO) TrainBuff101, in my humble opinion, tried to "ruffle my feathers" by asking me if I was blind and then afterwards infer that I was "psycho" just because I almost always end my replies in a friendly manner (Peace, God Bless, Hope this helps, etc). I was surprised at first but decided to reply without hostility. ( why get irritated with someone you can't see whose likely 1,000 miles away?) I noticed how quickly it took the wind out of his sails. I got the impression that he's a young person with a quick wit and street smarts. I could be wrong.

This is a great forum and just like shopping for fruit, we all briefly sift through everything and respond to what interests us. I've found that when making a response to someone who blantantly is in error, tendering it with kindness ususally evokes a "I appreciate it" or even a "Thank you" type of response. Without young people, this hobby will quickly evaporate.

ACL, You've made some very good contributions to these threads. Let the negative stuff blow by.

Stay with us![:D][:)][8D][8)][8D]

[Anonymous]

ACL Fan,

I've read some of your replies (the "Busted!" topic for example). While I strongly feel that you're entitled to share your opinions, it seems they tend to be strongly worded. Further, you invite the 'wrath' of other forum members when you continue to lambaste someone over something you don't agree with. Would it not be better to reply in a positive manner...and let it go?

If you kick someone once, they might be inclined to shrug it off. Kicking people repeatedly serves no purpose. If you now feel that you're being attacked, you might want to take a long, honest look at how your posts are being perceived by others. That said, I hope you're don't take offense to this reply. It was meant to be helpful.[:)]

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SuperChiefFan

ACL Fan,

I've read some of your replies (the "Busted!" topic for example). While I strongly feel that you're entitled to share your opinions, it seems they tend to be strongly worded. Further, you invite the 'wrath' of other forum members when you continue to lambaste someone over something you don't agree with. Would it not be better to reply in a positive manner...and let it go?

If you kick someone once, they might be inclined to shrug it off. Kicking people repeatedly serves no purpose. If you now feel that you're being attacked, you might want to take a long, honest look at how your posts are being perceived by others. That said, I hope you're don't take offense to this reply. It was meant to be helpful.[:)]

Please don't consider this as ganging up on ACL but I too have to agree with the "Chief " on this one. This a great place to exchange ideas and opinions but we have to be respectful of it. Let the cat out of the bag and it's "torque time". Yes some of us do get foolish or off topic at times but this is our way of blowing steam. I have been a safety officer in my time and after going through hundreds of accident reports I understand why they want us away from the tracks. It's a loathsome job as you are constantly butting heads with those above and below. I found the best way is to educate and not berate.

"IT" happens more often then you think and if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time you will become a statistic.

I have been taken aback this past week by a certain someones attack as to "This doesn't belong here as it's taking up bandwidth" I could've gotten nasty but I didn't I chose to ignore.

There is room for all of us here and that what makes this a great place to come.

Friendly reminders can go the distance.

[dharmon]

ACL,

Since I am apparently the target here, I would first like to apologize for ruffling your feathers so, however I don't think it was entirely unwarranted. I also do not recall saying that you threatened anyone, but I feel you do seem to have a thing for the younger folks, particularly dougal and CNW/Conrailguy whatever, having fun on the forums. Call it annoyance/bitterness whatever....you come across as the grumpy old man.

You do in fact make some helpful posts. And I would even go as far to say that I agree with the majority of the legal points you make, you are obviously an intelligent and seemingly well educated person. But your delivery and sometimes down right baiting of folks kind of makes your good point moot. Once the delivery itself causes strife, the point no matter how correct, is lost. It would seem at times that you are deliberately pushing the "press to test" button just to generate a response, or tossing the grenade in the room and walking away.

As far as stalking..don't flatter yourself........it's more like the kid's arcade game where the mole pops its head up and you try to whack it with a plastic bat before it drops back into the hole. I wish I had the time to be a stalker....I actually probably have something better to be doing right now.

Take a look at some of your posts...not everyone has as thick skin as you or me. We are all here for entertainment......a recess from the world.....if we wanted to be abused we'd go talk to our boss or wife or whatever.....

Nobody hates you, thinks you're a baby eating monster or wants you to leave.

[Roadtrp]

It is hard to read another person's intentions over the net... therefore it helps to stay as non-inflammatory as possible. I've had problems with this on occasion. I will present what I think is a persuasive argument for my point of view, then go back to read it later and see where some people could have considered it insulting or condescending.

[bsteel4065]

Hi ACL fan.
None of this is worth worrying about. Life's too short. But ........

I would ask everyone to extend understanding beyond their realm. Not everyone lives in the U.S. and so not everyone has immediate access to U.S. train knowledge, US railroad workings or even the U.S. Go into most train stores in the UK and ask, 'can you get me a UP caboose?' and they'll look at you blankly and probably ask you to leave. Things you all take for granted are not in our realm. Years ago, it took me a fair amount of time to work out what UP, PRR, SP, NH, etc, etc meant in the ads in MRR. We don't have gondolas in the UK, neither do we have switchers (we call them shunters) , ties (sleepers), cabooses (guards vans) or big boys (someone very well endowed!). We have 240volt the U.S. has 110v. We have drivers you have engineers. Oh yes, and the Walthers catalog costs twice as much in the UK and has to be ordered specially.

Anyway, can we all think beyond our realm? I ain't stupid, I'm just a foreigner. And the same applies to those who don't know as much as others.

Take care!

[Anonymous]

OK let me start this out by saying I try as hard as I can to post the truth. Secondly I try to post stuff that isn't off topic the only exeption being DOS. No I'm not mad at you at all! I know what it's like to want to leave hereso I would NEVER try to get you to.

[Big_Boy_4005]

The

TRUTH

is that I like to

PROVOKE THOUGHT

here on the forum, and it seems that I have. As we have all seen, discussing trains, model or real, need not be mindless banter.

When I saw ACL's first response to the Busted!! topic, I could sense his outrage, and proceded to set a trap with my follow up remark.

---

The following is an excerpt from an email exchange between Deschane and myself:

deschane: P.S. Who is ACLFAN, anyway! He doesn't seem to be a happy camper

me: Mark, I knew I would goad him into a response like that with my remark that he quoted. I got him to show his true colors, and let the others jump on him. It was a kind of sneaky and rotten thing for me to do, but it worked.

---

With deschane as my witness, it is clear in this case that I was doing the provoking. The question is was anyone, myself included, doing the thinking?

I, and I suspect a few others, saw the first version of the response that ACL posted and quickly edited. I NEVER GET ANGRY over things here in the forum, and this incident was no different. Some things that go on here do frustrate me from time to time, but when placed in the proper perspective, the frustration quickly subsides.

I hope that in the end we all come away wiser from this experience, I know that I have.

[Roadtrp]

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp

I have one of those! [:D][:p][;)]He guards my old MRs.

[AntonioFP45]

Lupo,

He quoted Hitler to express how ironic this situation has become. He used the "well known man" verse to lead you to the surprise ending. Many of us similar technicques when speaking to groups. I've quoted philosophers, politcial leaders, and nutcases to get a point across too. Doesn't make me a racist..

[:)][:D][8D]Let's move on and enjoy our forum! ACL fan has been raked over enough for his intentional and unintentional mistakes.

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

Ok ACL I thought you were trying to start something with me but now i see you were not. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

I pretty much try to stay out of arguments on forums; in fact I have never posted a negative message. Unfortunately, the time has come. I have been on this site for only a couple of weeks, but I can still make observations.

First - As far as I know, I have never seen ACL Fan insult or harass someone based on their age.

Second - Every post I have seen ACL Fan make has been negative or insulting in one way or another, and never has the person deserved it.

Third - While I respect ACL Fan's right to an opinion, I don't have to agree with it, and I would have no problems if he left these forums for good. I have no problem with people expressing their opinions, as long as they do it in a respectful manner.

If anyone is offended by this post, I am sorry. I tried to keep it as respectful as possible, but some things had to be said.

PS - AntonioFP45, I read that post by TrainBuff101, and you should feel no need to defend yourself. I felt that you were respectful and courteous at all times, and he was way out of line in insulting you.

[Anonymous]

See, I honestly Wonder what the intentions of this Thread are...

Are you ACL going to use this information to better yoursaelf, or for self awareness,

I don't hate you, I'll never hate you no matter what you do.

However I would like to make a one recomendation.

When you post your opinion, try JUSt to post how you feel, try not to overindudlde or however thats spelt. Deep down i think your a great person, and i don't agree with your original post, you seem to making Dan a target, which is why, i wonder about your intewntions, But that aside...

heres an example...

I don't tresspass on Railways, Adn i never will, It is dangerous, and I could get hurt...

the way you worded it:

Tresspassing on Railways is stupid, i hope your Wife finds out and your kids, Women love that one....

See that was COMPLETELY unnecesary, and you wonder why you get it back?

You could even word it like this, if you feel you have to:

I would neevr tresspass on Tracks, The CP police don't appreciate it, I think it's not the most brilliant past time in the world..

Me, i have no choice but to agree with you, Because of the CP rail thing, I cannot Legally condone Walking along the RR tracks, etc...

However, i can disagree with the way you worded your opinion, and the your intentions behind your posts. If it wasn't for that, we would have been fine.

Look, I still want you to E-mail me, I think we can get along jsut fine.

Also, Man, you got to get a sense of humor, Make some jokes, laugh a little, that shows people your not so stuck up.. By the way, i'm saying this part in a joking manor..

and people like that online

Start a joke, don't incorporate people into it,

I think ACl if you phrase everyhting a bit better, everyhting will go jsut fine

and i'm sorry for jumping out at you,

sorry man

[Anonymous]

ACL,
You come across harsh and antagonistic against some pretty productive and enjoyable members of the forum. That drew my replies and many others.

Perhaps it is not "tell a lie long enough and you'll be beleived," but more "if people keep saying it, maybe it really is a problem."

I guess I don't understand how you turn this around to how people are just against you. I try to be as straightforward and clear as possible. You have been offensive and hostile towards other people that I have found undeserving of that ire, for what appears to be trivial and unwarrented reasons. You suggest that people are inferior to you, that they are unworthy of respect, and that other member's lives are less important. Before you pick apart my words, these are not quotes of what you said, but are how you came across.

I consider your behavior to be part of the problem that directly contributed to the near meltdown from a few weeks ago. Either you are going to alter that, or we are going to have another meltdown on topics that you post or reply to. Since that is not a positive solution, I felt compelled to discuss it with you. I do so under the assumption that you would like the forum to be productive and enjoyable for everyone. We are all here for a common interest, if you don't feel a need to create an inviting and stimulating environment, then please leave.

You appear very harsh, and inconsiderate on a routine basis. Stop with the "everyone else is wrong, stupid, or morally deficient" replies and get to the "these are decent hard working people with valuable lessons and experiences that can contribute to our hobby." None of us have to be here, so some of us will choose not to unless it is a welcome and inviting place to hang out.

Perception is reality. A word to the wise is sufficient.

[bsteel4065]

Hey guys, this is a model railroad forum! Any threat of leaving all this out and getting back to what this forum is set up for?
Thanks

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bsteel4065

Hey guys, this is a model railroad forum! Any threat of leaving all this out and getting back to what this forum is set up for?
Thanks

My suggestion, also, would be that if yuo don't like a certain content in a thread, don't press Reply..

ACL.. did you read this yet?

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

QUOTE: Originally posted by bsteel4065

Hey guys, this is a model railroad forum! Any threat of leaving all this out and getting back to what this forum is set up for?
Thanks

My suggestion, also, would be that if yuo don't like a certain content in a thread, don't press Reply..

ACL.. did you read this yet?

[#ditto] Kevin, I almost made the very same comment when I first saw that, but opted to pass. I am now making the decision to reply, but in reality aren't we both doing what we are asking him not to? [%-)][%-)][banghead][banghead][;)][;)][:D]

[Anonymous]

I just glanced over this thread. This is not why I use the forum, so I exercise my right to just skim over all the bent noses and go on to another post. I think the hobby is fun. I like doing it my way on my layout. I defend your right to do it your way on your layout

I hope you guys all get the splinters out of your diapers and let the wounds heal. Hell, life is just to short to get all heated up over mindless banter.

Tom

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tpaulsen



I hope you guys all get the splinters out of your diapers and let the wounds heal. Hell, life is just to short to get all heated up over mindless banter.

Tom

Hey I'm a Big Boy now cause I use pull-UPs.[(-D]

[Anonymous]

My take on this thread:

Technical Merit : 0....[V]
Artistic Impression : 0.....[B)]

...but maybe we should let someone totally unbiased, like a figure skating judge, do the ranking...[:o)][:o)][:o)]

regards
Mike.

[Anonymous]

See, because i am a deep thinker this is MY take on the thread,

Although I still do wonder what the purpose was of this thread I would also like to add, if you look deep enough, I actually Think ACL fan set this thread up so he can better himself!.. and best of all, he is asking our opinion.

Now many of you who have said this is a useless thread, when someone helps you out, are they performing a "useless" deed?

I believe everyone who shared their opinion have helped out immensely, and If ACL was genuine he will take our comments to heart

So life is to short to help someone out? I think not. I try to help out at least one person on a Daily basis.

Does helping someone out Actaully Require Technical merit or Artistic Impression? I think not aswell.

You call helping someone out puliing splinters out of our dipers or however you word it, I call it a betterment of the RR forum society.

Maybe some of you decidenot to help out someone in need, thats your conscience, But i'll be damned if i sit and do nothing..

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman
...See, because i am a deep thinker this is MY take on the thread,....
I believe everyone who shared their opinion have helped out immensely, and If ACL was genuine he will take our comments to heart...... I try to help out at least one person on a Daily basis.....You call helping someone out puliing splinters out of our dipers or however you word it, I call it a betterment of the RR forum society...Maybe some of you decidenot to help out someone in need, thats your conscience, But i'll be damned if i sit and do nothing..

I believe you mean well, Kevin, but at some point you might want to try "getting over yourself"....a lot of the humor in forums such as this, are "tongue-in-cheek" comments, meant to neither compliment, nor offend the other parties.[:D][;)]

Any attempts at psychological analysis, or social engineering, tend to be way-too-serious overkill.
I realize you don't "sit and do nothing", because you average over 100 posts a month...and I'm not sure if you have "helped" over 1000 people....or the same person over 1000 times ???[?][?][;)][;)]
regards
Mike

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester
Hey I'm a Big Boy now cause I use pull-UPs.[(-D]

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][swg][swg][swg][swg]

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robmik

My take on this thread:

Technical Merit : 0....[V]
Artistic Impression : 0.....[B)]

...but maybe we should let someone totally unbiased, like a figure skating judge, do the ranking...[:o)][:o)][:o)]

regards
Mike.

Hey Mike there wouldn't be any Russian in your blood line would there[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester
Hey Mike there wouldn't be any Russian in your blood line would there[;)]

Fergie...nope , there's no Russian.

Only two generations back, there's English-Scottish on one side....Polish on the other....none of those three have much of a figure-skating heritage.[:D][:D]

...and best of luck to Colleen Jones, yet again, ( as if she really needs it ), in the women's curling finals.[8D]
regardsl;
Mike

[Fergmiester]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robmik

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergmiester
Hey Mike there wouldn't be any Russian in your blood line would there[;)]

Fergie...nope , there's no Russian.

Only two generations back, there's English-Scottish on one side....Polish on the other....none of those three have much of a figure-skating heritage.[:D][:D]

...and best of luck to Colleen Jones, yet again, ( as if she really needs it ), in the women's curling finals.[8D]
regardsl;
Mike

Just curious as your judging in regards to technical merit and artistic impression is reminiscent of Olympic Russian Judges of the 70's.[:D][;)]