Fun Rivet Counting ?

[Anonymous]

I have a comment to make and I am sure I will get bashed for it so let me begin to sat that I respect evryones opinion and would appriciate it if you would respect mine. Here is the question. Do you belive that "rivet counting" can be fun ? I think so. i here alot of people bashing people who are "rivet counters". yes I belive that just because you like ultimate realisim or trains running past dinosours ( thats the only way I could think of to put it ) ,but that does not mean that you have to go critisizing the person who does not do it like you. I think that having extreme realism can be quite fun. my layout will be veered to realism and detail. Trains will run on a realisitic shedule, detail will be used, weathering, and other realistic things will find a home on my layout. of course there will be some unrealitic items such as " there are not that many curves on a railroad in western Oklahoma" but the agin, no model can hope to be an exact representation of the prototype. I geuss the point is that different members of difernet parties should respect each other and even if you like rivet counting, HAVE FUN !!!! Do you think rivet counting can be fun?

[Fergmiester]

This has been a question asked several times and from where I stand rivet counting is not about being exact or reaching for the highest level of personal perfection it's a matter of attitiude or more tho the point "that's not the proper way", or as Simon would say " You have got to be the worst model railroader I have ever met". From where I sit reaching to attain personnel best is not rivet counting, which is a MR bean counter, but better yet a craftsman.

[Anonymous]

I'm a 'rivet counter', by both temperment and inclination. With each new project I strive to increase my modeling skills and produce a product closer to prototype, or at least closer to plausable. To me, research is nearly as much fun as building, perhaps more.

Randy

[Anonymous]

I'm not trying to have everything realistic, although I want to be realistic. I live by the old MR slogan "Model Railroading is Fun".

[MAbruce]

Of course rivet counting can be fun. [tup]

What is not fun is when someone tries to tell others that their particular way is the only way to model railroads (and have fun) - and you don't have to be a rivet counter to be one of these people. [|(]

[Anonymous]

I agree with Dougal, I'm in this hobby to enjoy it. I enjoy research and also attempt to do the best I can with each model I build. I am a member of my model RR's historical society and this is fun also! I take the definition of a rivet counter that is being refered to in this forum, as a person with a myopic point of view, whom sees things only from their perspective, criticizes anything that doesn't meet their personal high standards and nobody can be as good at, or smart as they are. In simple terms these people are Asses and I ask that they please leave me alone!

[Eriediamond]

Yes, rivit counting can be fun. But, depends on how many rivits there are to count and what the rivits are on. Also can be more fun than counting sheep, depending on the sheep of coarse!!! [(-D][(-D][(-D]

[ClinchValleySD40]

No. I don't think rivet counters know how to have fun. If you're that serious about a hobby, it stops becoming a hobby. Ever see one of them smile?

[Anonymous]

I would have to agree with deschane...

I also don't really think there is a right way or a wrong way in this hobby. I think that if your level of modelling satisfaction is satisfied with the way you've done things, then you've done a great job!
I like the rivet counter that offers me constuctive criticism, not belittling my efforts if they don't measure up to his level of achievement.

Rey

[ndbprr]

How do you not become MORE of a rivet counter as you acquire knowlegde? When you start out as long as the train runs you are happy. Then you find out the engine and caboose should have the same road name so you buy one to fit. Then you find out either through observation or help that (for example) the Tyco GG1 is a gross travsety of an engine and nothing like the real thing so you update to one that more represents the real engine. You are now a rivet counter and feel better for it. Go to someone elses house and belittle them through your vast knwoledge base and you aren't a rivet counter you are a rivet pounder in my opinion.

[orsonroy]

Actually, yes I have seen rivet counters smile. All the time, in fact. Frankly, the best, most friendly, most civil, and most pleasant model RR conventions I've ever been to are the Proto Modelers Conventions held in various places throughout the country. Everyone there has a commonality in the hobby, unlike general cons. They're all there to learn about the prototype and to create better models with that knowledge. There's no politicking, no cliqueishness, and no angry "freelancers" bashing "rivet counters", complaining about how we "ruin the hobby".

[IRONROOSTER]

I think if you define rivet counting as building accurate, highly detailed finished, weathered models and scenes, then yes it can certainly be as much fun. If it becomes an obession, however, then I don't think so. The term 'rivet counter' is usually applied to those individuals who get their 'fun' by pointing out where you screwed up, particularly in some obscure detail (like the number of rivets). They are also the people who believe there is only one way to do anything and that everyone should be in one scale (theirs). Fine scale modeling is the term favored by those who want extreme realism without being obnoxous about it. If you're having fun doing that then go for it.
Enjoy
Paul

[tomwatkins]

If " Rivet Counting" means learning as much as possible about the prototypes I'm modeling, be they locomotives, rolling stock, structures, track arrangements or whatever, then yes, rivet counting is fun. Having the information available lets me decide how accurately I can and want to build a particular model.

If "Rivet Counting" means obsessing over accuracy or the lack of it to the point that a model I want to build doesn't get built or the process ceases to be enjoyable then rivet counting isn't fun.

If "Rivet Counting" means bashing another model railroader because I'd have done something more accurately or just differently then it is definitely not fun and is not acceptable behavior.

Have Fun,
Tom Watkins

[Eriediamond]

Thanks Ironrooster, Your reply is dead-on. I posted an earlier reply with an attempt at a little humor and have been trying to compose an answer that relflects my feelings on the topic since that reply. I couln't have said it any better. I agree with all the above replies also. In the context that "rivit counting" applies to someone striving to create a close as possible to the real thing model, I fall into that catagory. Well maybe, because I haven't weathered my rolling stock or worried if the tender on my steam engine had a head light on it. I model to satisfy myself and to the abilities I have, not for competition. My modeling days started back in the middle 40's at the age of about six when all I had was my Lionel 027 train set and old shoe boxes, a pair scissors and a box of crayons to construct buildings and tunnels with. As for the other discription of rivit counter, You can blame Lionel and American Flyer for starting that war.

[Anonymous]

I tried to become a rivet counter. I even worked through the night counting those things...



but I kept loosing count so gave up and decided to just be me - easy going, fun loving, me!

[Supermicha]

I invite all rivit counters to come into my company, there you can count the rivits of an airbus aircraft. after that, you won´t see any rivits anymore [:D]

[Jetrock]

Let me put it this way:

Rivet counting can be fun--IF YOU ARE COUNTING YOUR OWN RIVETS.

It stops being fun, especilally for others, when you start counting the OTHER guy's rivets.

In AA they call it "taking someone's inventory"--while an assessment of one's own shortcomings vs. strengths is an appropriate and sometimes necessary step, doing it to someone else can be downright rude.

I consider doing things like prototype research and reading up on history and technology to be fun--I did it in my spare time even before I got back into model railroading, and in fact went to college to study history. So yes, I think that knowing how railroads really did things, and knowing how things work/worked, can be an enjoyable pursuit in itself--and, as is so often the case, once one has this knowledge it is enjoyable to share it.

But it's important to remember that not everyone thinks the same way.

Bottom line, again: Counting your own rivets is fine. If someone asks you to count their rivets, that's fine too. But it's not necessary or nice to go around counting rivets uninvited.

[dharmon]

So to sum it up.....you can count your rivets, you can count your friends, but you can't count your friend's rivits...

[Jetrock]

And if you count your friend's rivets, you may find that your number of friends begins shrinking!!!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

And if you count your friend's rivets, you may find that your number of friends begins shrinking!!!

I think that's Boyle's law

[Eriediamond]

Do loose rivits count????[%-)][%-)][%-)]

[lupo]

well said all!

having read the posts I must confess that I am as well becoming Rivet Counter !
I took a look what is on my shelves and ndbprr is right, along the tracks you get more critical in what you buy.
As I compare what I bought a few years ago: Walthers Trainline, I thought it looked good, THEN,
and what I buy now: Genesis, P2K or Intermountain I think it looks ok NOW
but the temptation of brass . . . . . .

I saw the AA come up in Jetrocks post, maybe there is room for me with the RCA ! ( Rivet Counters Anonymous )

[Anonymous]

I count my own rivets, some of which I am told are loose. It is fun to build a totally accurate model now and then, but I do ot have time to build an entire fleet of freight cars to exact standards. Is it fun to build a near perfect model? Absolutely, at least for me. Is it fun to count someone elses rivets? No, I have enough trouble with my own.

Keep the steam up.

Tom

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Eriediamond

Do loose rivits count????[%-)][%-)][%-)]

Just cause they're hanging aound in bars and such doesn't make them bad rivets

[Anonymous]

Although it's been alluded to in several posts I think we need to get specific here. I have always heard the "rivet counter" term applied to those guys who inform you that your model is a scale three inches too short, or "The Pennsy never had a caboose with that number", etc. The guys who strive to build dead on accurate models aren't rivet counters, they are excellent modelers. Most of those guys don't criticize the work of others, they help when they can and share when you ask.

[Anonymous]

If by rivet counting you mean trying to learn a lot about locomotives, rolling stock, etc. Then yes, it's a lot of fun. It's not fun when a guy comes up to you and says "you got the proper layout and equiptment run that engine with?" then no, it's evil. We should be able to model what we want. If they want everything to be exact, they can do it on their own layout.

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ebriley

Although it's been alluded to in several posts I think we need to get specific here. I have always heard the "rivet counter" term applied to those guys who inform you that your model is a scale three inches too short, or "The Pennsy never had a caboose with that number", etc. The guys who strive to build dead on accurate models aren't rivet counters, they are excellent modelers. Most of those guys don't criticize the work of others, they help when they can and share when you ask.

True, the vast majority of prototype modelers won't criticize someone else's modeling TO THEIR FACE, but most DO criticize bad modeling. And most proto modelers actually like the term rivet counter. The diehard proto guys are starting to call themselves Proto Police!

I have no problem with any of this, since I proudly call myself a proto modeler (I'm not quite really, but close enough).