Do YOU use guard rails?

[Anonymous]

I'm finding that I'm having to install several guard rails around the layout. By guard rails I mean inner rails at bridges, in tunnels and on banked turns, with or without grades. Anyone having similiar experiences?

[Anonymous]

Guard rails are prototypical on bridges, I think some tunnels, but I am not sure about superelevated (banked) turns...

If you are installing them because you experience frequent derailments at these locations, I would suggest that your trackwork needs to looked at.

I only have guard rails on bridges (and they are Atlas bridges that come with the molded guard rails and track installed)...

Andrew

[Anonymous]

I have checked and rechecked the rails I suspect it's the steep graded curves, which cause the wheels to want to climb over the rail that's causing me grief. I just don't want to install something that doesn't belong. This problem is exacerbated when hauling lengthy consists.

[orsonroy]

I use guard rails on some longer bridges, but not on others. I've walked most of the line that I'm trying to model, and I've noticed that several of the bridges don't use guard rails, even on otherwise BIG bridges that we would all think need them (this is an active line, and all the bridges have been there for over 50 years) Small stream crossings don't use them, road overpasses do, deck girder bridges ober streams do, but stone road overpasses don't. Surprisingly, a really big bridge over a small river, that stands about 100 feet tall, doesn't use guard rails. I even checked every tie to look for spike holes where the guard rails would have been and came up empty.

Remember, when modeling guard rails, use a smaller rail size than your mainline rail. Otherwise, the wheels might creep up and over them!

[Anonymous]

Hmmm....

When you are going uphill, with a long train on a tight curve, there is a tendency for the cars to try and make a straight line between the loco and the caboose (or somewhere near the back of the train...). This is increased by having really heavy cars at the back of the train that act as a kind of "anchor".

How much is your track superelevated? I have read (no experience with this yet, as I will not need to superelevate) that you don't want to superelevate more than the thickness of a few business cards. If the track is noticably tilted over, then you have overdone it. I have had to shim the track here and there to get it level, but that is about it.

One other possible solution is to do what the prototype does - put some sort of operating restriction on that part of the track! Something like a speed limit, or a maximum number of cars, or a helper/pusher to be added to the end of the train.

Andrew

[StillGrande]

I agree with masonjar. The 1:1 railroads have the same problem. Check out the January or February issue of TRAINS. The article on Cajon Pass shows a train in the similar predicament you describe (up hill, tight turn, long train) on its side in the ditch. They had to realign the tracks to straighten the curves to reduce this event from occuring.

[Anonymous]

Guard rails are used on sharper curves to reduce the load on the rail on the outside of the curve. They do this by bearing on the back of the opposite wheel. I've travelled on an industrial museum's rail line (the Bristol Industrial Museum - they've saved a fairly large chunk of the old dockyard rail network and operate small steam locos with old 4-wheel opens fitted with bench seats, worth a look if you're ever near Bristol), which had a few such curves - riding in an old GWR brake van (caboose) around these was an interesting experience - fairly long 4-wheel chassis + tight curves = some awful squealing noises from the flanges!

[Jetrock]

Trolley modelers are quite familiar with guardrail--it is the standard rather than the exception, although it is typically known as "girder rail"--rather than a separate guard rail, an inner flange is part of the rail. This can be modeled using Richard Orr girder rail or simulated using smaller-size rail soldered into the web of the main rail (time-consuming and difficult) or with brass L-girder. Using very sharp curves (12" or less) illustrates the very strong need for an inner rail--on curves, your cars want to go straight!

I'm trying several different methods, though--by using styrene in between the tracks, with the inner edges painted a rusty-metal color, I can simulate the appearance of girder rail while the styrene acts as a somewhat flexible guardrail, as long as the width of the flangeway is correct. Where's that NMRA standards gauge?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Jetrock

Trolley modelers are quite familiar with guardrail--it is the standard rather than the exception, although it is typically known as "girder rail"--rather than a separate guard rail, an inner flange is part of the rail. This can be modeled using Richard Orr girder rail or simulated using smaller-size rail soldered into the web of the main rail (time-consuming and difficult) or with brass L-girder. Using very sharp curves (12" or less) illustrates the very strong need for an inner rail--on curves, your cars want to go straight!

I'm trying several different methods, though--by using styrene in between the tracks, with the inner edges painted a rusty-metal color, I can simulate the appearance of girder rail while the styrene acts as a somewhat flexible guardrail, as long as the width of the flangeway is correct. Where's that NMRA standards gauge?

You could try using L - section brass glued to the ties to represent the guard rail - would be more solid than the styrene - you'd then cut the styrene to fit between the brass sections. Saw this in a magazine recently, not sure which one, they suggested using plaster instead of styrene (and didn't offer any ideas for how to do this on curves...).

[cacole]

I use the rail from N-scale flex track as guard rails on HO-scale bridges and trestles, since it is only for appearance and really serves no useful purpose.

[Anonymous]

Yes.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit
You could try using L - section brass glued to the ties to represent the guard rail - would be more solid than the styrene - you'd then cut the styrene to fit between the brass sections. Saw this in a magazine recently, not sure which one, they suggested using plaster instead of styrene (and didn't offer any ideas for how to do this on curves...).

I mentioned using L-sectioned brass in my original post--I don't plan on using it because the styrene will probably be sturdy enough. Many trolley modelers use plaster in between the rails, using girder rail (either the Orr stuff or rail plus brass, since traditional trolley-track setup is applied directly to the roadbed without ties.

Brass L-section on curves is done by cutting many little cuts in the horizontal part of the L...and yes, it's a lot of work. Which is why I'm just using styrene...

[Anonymous]

My track work is all code 100. I laid most of it before code 83 became reasonably priced. I use code 70 as guard rails on bridges which don't have guard rails molded into the bridge deck. Why would you use brass L stock to make guard rail, when the prototypes use lighter weight rail? The L-stock wouldn't look right, to me! Also, I find guard rail performs the same exact duty on my model RR as it does on the proto type. Most of the time it keeps the equipment from falling off the bridge!

[Jetrock]

It's not really used as guardf rail but as the inner flange on girder rail. If there is a light-rail or old trolley system in your town take a look at the track sometime--the slot where the flange runs is literally a sort of cup of metal and the inner flanged portion is a very thin lip of metal rather than a full second guardrail.

It's just one of those subtle differences between trolley/interurban track (using flanged girder rail) and steam/diesel track (using a second full rail as guardrail.)

Brass rail is more something one would see on an O scale trolley layout--1/8" angle brass stock is the same height as Code 125 rail, or a little below Code 147--both common rail weights for O scale trolley. One reason why I didn't consider brass angle stock was that I couldn't find itin an .100" size.

[Anonymous]

Jetrock, I rode street cars in Minneapolis, when I was very young child and can just barely remember doing it! Also, the rails for street cars in MPLS were still in the streets when I drove delivery truck just out of high school, so I am aware of what girder rail is. I took Fergus' comments to be about guard rails and not girder.

However, now that we're here, isn't commercial girder rail available for you trolly guys?

[jrbarney]

Deschane,
Just in case he's not on, Jetrock noted in an 11 December 2003 that Orr street
railway track is available from CustomTraxx. Their URL is:
http://www.customtraxx.com/
Hope this helps the traction modelers or anyone else needing girder rail. I can still remember how treacherous it was for the unwary to drive across Public Service of NJ's girder rail during ice storms. The cobble stones added to the fun.
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by deschane


However, now that we're here, isn't commercial girder rail available for you trolly guys?

Yes, there is--it's just a bit hard to find. It's also expensive--by using styrene edge-painting as mentioned above I don't have to. Orr girder rail also requires special tools to bend. A new company has recently introduced Proto:87 scaled girder rail.

I'm kind of in a weird modeling situation--I model a line that ran both interurbans and conventional freight, and switched to diesels in the mid-1940's but kept using electrics until the mid-1950's. So I'm modeling a hybrid of sorts. My current rolling stock is a handful of diesel engines and conventional 40-50 foot freight cars, with a handful of older trolley engines (not in regular service but intended to simulate the frequent fantrips hosted on this late-period electric line.) Eventually I hope to add a couple of electric freight motors.

I can't use trolley switches (too sharp for conventional boxcars and can't be wired for two-rail power) and trying to connect conventional turnouts to Orr girder rail is impractical at best.

I responded to the thread, even though my situation is somewhat different, because girder rail also serves a guard-rail purpose as well as keeping flangeways clear.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Guys

All of your information has been well rec'd and appreciated. The info from Stillgrande and RR-Brit is probably the most applicable in this regard. Looks like I be running alot of squealing pigs around the bend and all my tunnels will be lined with guard rails as well.

Once again Thx