If you will excuse the expression, I toyed around with the Roundhouse engine and thought it too bland. Detail not quite there, and in general just not a very good engine. I thought it lacked pulling power as it had a problem with 10 cars weighted to NMRA standards (40' reefers). The Bachmann engine I liked better. It has more detail better pulling power and is a really good engine.
Another engine that would fit your time period is the 2-10-0 and the 2-8-0 both Bachmann and both pretty good engines. The 2-8-0 being the better of the three.
I was thinking the Spectrum line of Bachmann trains. I've read that the quality may not be there, and the Roundhouse was preferred. But then I read the opposite too. Very confusing. Hence my posting here.
I'm currently powered by a NCE Power Cab. Nice starter and expandable. Enough to get us started anyway.
You want Bachmann SPECTRUM.
The Bman's standard line has been around for years and years. I had thier GS 4 and thier 2-8-0 with the fat coal firebox and neither one survived. Simply because of the in frame pancake motor and really crappy pulling power.
Roundhouse makes a adequate 4-4-0 with the MRC Decoder. In my not so humble opinion MRC should stay away from the decoder business and stick to making power packs.
Here is a rather badly made video of the engine:
http://img532.imageshack.us/my.php?image=roundhouse440versiontwofb5.flv
I remember it too massive adjustments to the starting CV group in DCC and it still jerked to a halt or lurched into motion.
Bman's Spectrum line started with the 2-8-0 back in the late 90's that turned the HO scale steam hobby right back around and won awards for quality. I drove a 2-8-0 up a 4% grade towing 7 cars on a hobby shop 4x8 during an ops session and the engine performed well.
You will find that Spectrum is a better buy and value for your money. especially at the 200 dollar price point where the lack of detailing on the roundhouse shows up against the better Spectrum product.
sparkyjay31 wrote:I'm just getting into the hobby, along with my 5 year old boy. We inherited lots of track and equipment. Actually about a mile and a half to scale! We're looking to get into the steam era of 1890 - 1920. That being said DCC and sound equipped 4-4-0, 0-6-0, and 2-6-0 are all needed. We've found that both Bachmann Spectrum and Roundhouse seem to be the norm. I understand that I'd have to add sound to the Bachmann, unless I get lucky on Ebay and find a Tsunami already installed. But what I need to know is which Manufacturer is the better of the two? I'd guess at light loads of 3-4 pieces of rolling stock with little grade changes. My LHS has not been much of a help so now I need to turn to the experts. Probably should have started here!
Speaking to the 4-4-0s, which is the only arrangement you listed in production by both manufacturers, the Roundhouse is a generic 4-4-0, and the Bachmann Spectrum is modeled after a specific prototype - the Maryland and Pennsylvania Richmond 4-4-0 built around 1903. Various versions of the Spectrum 4-4-0 show varying degrees of modernization, and some are lettered for other railroads which had similar engines. All the Roundhouse steam locos with sound and DCC uses the infamous MRC decoder, which has given many owners fits.
The Roundhouse 2-6-0 uses pretty much the same boiler and frame as the 4-4-0 (as will the 2-8-0). The boiler is extended/shortened as necessary.
As far as ready to run 19th Century locomotives, the Roundhouse line, the Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 and 4-6-0, and the IHC and Bachmann "standard" 4-4-0s are about it. Model Power is supposed to be releasing the Mantua General in their Mantua Classics line soon. If you can find them, Model Power imported a very pretty late 19th Century Baldwin 2-8-0 and 4-6-0 in the early 1990s. Made by Frachescti (sp?), the superstructures are very nice, and are fairly accurate for Colorado Midland locomotives. Running qualities though, are poor at best.
There is a big difference between 1890s and 1920s prototypes. The USRA designs were available and in use by 1920. Use of trailing trucks to support larger fireboxes had become common place, and so the 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 would be just as appropriate power in 1920 as the 1890s standards of 2-8-0, 2-6-0, 4-4-0, and 4-6-0.
Hope this helps with your decisions.
Fred W
Bachmann invented the modern high quality plastic steamer with their 2-8-0 Consolidation back in the 1990's. The good new Bachmann steamers are always sold under the Bachmann Spectrum name. I own a Consolidation and a Shay. Both are superb models, smooth running and beautifully detailed. You cannot really do better for a steamer than a Bachmann Spectrum, the level of detail is as good as brass, and they run a lot better. Bachmann now has enlarged their steamer line beyond the Consolidation. I have heard lots of good things about all of them.
Be aware that older, lesser quality Bachmann steamers are still on the market, but never under the Spectrum label. There is a serious improvement in detail, construction, detail, and fidelity to prototype between the plain old Bachmann and the Bachmann Spectrum steamers.
Another good maker of steam is IHC. They are more economical than the Bachmann Spectrum and run very well. They aren't quite as nicely detailed as the Bachmann Spectrum's but they ain't all that bad either.
Finally, the old Mantua steamers are all good runners, and with a good paint job and maybe a few cast brass detail parts added on, can be very nice locomotives. Plenty of the older production Mantua's are available at train shows for very little. Someone has acquired the dies and rights to the Mantua name and is reissuing many of the Mantua engines. I don't actually have one of the new production Mantua's, but I would expect them to be as good as the old ones.
Roundhouse used to be a fairly good maker of shake-the-box kits, and then got bought up by someone recently, maybe Horizon Hobbies. They used to make a Shay which had a reputation of being very difficult to build and not much of a runner after you did get it together. Other than that, Roundhouse was not a maker of locomotives. I certainly prefer my Bachmann Spectrum Shay to the Roundhouse one.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I bought the Spectrum 4-4-0 with DCC but no sound. The tender is equiped for sound, a speaker mounting position for a one inch OD speaker. The engine/tender has nice detail. I added sound.
I bought a Roundhouse 4-4-0 with DCC/sound. The engine is not as detailed as the Spectrum. The DCC/sound is ok, not the best. I replaced with a SoundTraxx Micro-Tsunami. This one pulls better than the Spectrum. The Roundhouse has rubber tires on two drivers. The Spectrum has no rubber tires.
I bought two Roundhouse 2-6-0 DCC ready only. I installed the Micro-Tsunami.
THis is probably more than you want to do.
Your four year old would enjoy the Roundhouse. Some of the Spectrum steamers have sound. Others may comment.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
The Ma and Pa bought the Richmond made 4-6-0 but had to sell it because it was too heavy. The Steel Cab 4-4-0 from the Ma and Pa lasted into the 50's The wood cab places it at the early 1900's I think Illinois got the 4-6-0 but dont recall which railroad.
The Spectrum Models of the Ma and Pa engines are pretty well done and are worth considering.
I owned the 4-6-0 for a long time of the spectrum line and it provided good service. Ultimately it was replaced by a 2-8-2 Mikado on the railroad. The mike came from Broadway Limited.
If your library has the book on the Ma and Pa with a complete history you will see why these light engines were valued and the reasons why they followed the path during these engines lives.
The roundhouse 4-4-0 had traction tire installed on one set of driving wheels and was able to pull 20+ of my blue box boxcars. Unfortunately it developed a bad backlash on a 3% downgrade and scrapped for parts.
dstarr wrote: Roundhouse used to be a fairly good maker of shake-the-box kits, and then got bought up by someone recently, maybe Horizon Hobbies. They used to make a Shay which had a reputation of being very difficult to build and not much of a runner after you did get it together. Other than that, Roundhouse was not a maker of locomotives. I certainly prefer my Bachmann Spectrum Shay to the Roundhouse one.
DS:
I think you are confoos-ed, as my thermodynamics professor used to say. MDC "Roundhouse" sold a lot of steam loco kits besides the Shay. They had old-time 2-6-0s with two driver sizes, old-time 2-8-0s in one standard gauge and two narrow gauge flavors, and more modern 0-6-0s, 0-6-0Ts, 4-6-0s, 4-4-2s, 2-6-2s, and 2-8-0s. I have their last catalog before they disappeared over the Horizon, which can be read here:
http://www.hoseeker.net/mdcmiscellaneous.htm
Of course, the current owners (may they be infested by the fleas of 1000 camels) decided to cut off us MDC fans, rather than try and promote a line which had been steadily upgraded and was quite good at the time of sale...my 2-6-0 is one of the late kit versions, with plated drivers, double reduction gearing, and a little "square opened can" motor with a small flywheel. It's a sweet runner. It's light and can't pull a huge train, but it manages well with eight or ten small old-time cars, which is plenty of train for me. I'd rather slip than have blankity blank traction tires.
Roundhouse old-timers are a little generic, but to me they have the right Baldwin "look", and that's important. Better to be generic than overly specific and unusable for anything else, I think, especially with 1800s steam...there was a lot of standardization back then, anyhow.
I don't know about the most recent stuff. I do think it is overpriced. I paid $65 or so for my kit, in 2000 or so, special order at the LHS. Now it lists around $140. True, you can get it for a lot less, perhaps $85-$100, if you mail-order it, but I suspect the LHS would charge me list. True, also, that the loco is fully assembled and painted, but to me that's not really a bonus. I enjoy easy stuff like metal kit building. It's relaxing. Why would I pay more for less fun? Besides, you get to work out all the kinks that way. I bet mine runs better than theirs...
Oh well. Boo on the mess. I think I'd be a little less sore at Horihouse if they'd sell me side rods for the very old 0-6-0 kit I picked up at the train show...it'll pass.
I would recommend any of the Spectrum steam engines. Detail is good, they run well and pull well (for the most part) as they do not use traction tires on these engines. And most important is that they are reasonably priced.
There have been some quality control issues at times but Bachmann will replace or repair their products no questions asked within the one year warrantee time frame or $20.00 after the one year period. There service department is in my opinion excellent and I have used their services on a few occassions.
I have also BLI and Proto steam units as well but these are more generally more expensive in comparison.
Similar enough question that I don't want to start another thread, but with the comparisons between Spectrum and Standard line going on in here, I would like to know if anyone has any experiences with the DCC On Board newer version of the Bachmann 4-8-4's especially the GS-4/6 inspired ones. Detail can be added, how do they run?
-Matt
Since you're looking for 1890-1920 era time period, I'll assume you're looking for smaller locos.If so, I'd add the IHC steam locomotives to you list of models to look at.
ihc-hobby.comThey have a 2-6-0 locomotive which is based on a SP prototype. It's not a bad stand-in for a B&M and NYC engines.They also have a modern 4-4-0 which uses the same boiler and cab as the 2-6-0. The 2-6-0's mechanism was also used to make a camelback. Since the 4-4-0 uses the same boiler as the 2-6-0, the camelback boiler could be swapped onto the 4-4-0 chassis. You're probably not ready for such thing but keep it in mind for down the road.IHC also offers a generic 2-8-0 which used the old Tyco USRA switcher boiler and cab on a new chassis. They also sell it as a 0-8-0 switcher.They also offer larger locomotives. They have a USRA 2-8-2 Mikado and 4-6-2 Pacific as well as a Semi-Streamlined Pacific which doesn't really matach any prototype.They have a 4-6-4 Hudson, 4-8-2 Mountain and 2-10-2 Santa Fe. They all based on the C&Os USRA mountain's boiler and cab. Of these three, only the 4-8-2 and 2-10-2 are appropriate albeit at the tail end of your time period. The hudson is well out of it.
IHC does a workmanlike job on thier engines but it will be some years yet before some of thier products mature to include the current best of DCC.
The Shay wasn't so difficult to build, but it did require some "tweaking" to get it to run well. Properly "tweaked" it was a decent runner for its time. MDC/Roundhouse also offered an 0-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-6-0, 4-4-2, and a couple of narrow gauge 2-8-0s, both inside and outside frame, and a boxcab. It's possible that they also had a 2-6-2. I had the Atlantic, Consolidation, and the Ten-Wheeler, and all were nice running locos and good pullers, too.
Wayne
Thanks for the help all. We're modeiling the B&M and have found alot of information regarding the engines and road numbers online. I'd really like to try and keep it simple to start. 1 or 2 engines with sound and expand from there. With the Bachmann Spectrum I'd need to add the sound myself ( or have to done professionally ), that's why I was leaning toward the Roundhouse. So that's an added cost of $100 +/- each. For a 5 year old that's the difference between a model and a toy!
sparkyjay31 wrote: Thanks for the help all. We're modeiling the B&M and have found alot of information regarding the engines and road numbers online. I'd really like to try and keep it simple to start. 1 or 2 engines with sound and expand from there. With the Bachmann Spectrum I'd need to add the sound myself ( or have to done professionally ), that's why I was leaning toward the Roundhouse. So that's an added cost of $100 +/- each. For a 5 year old that's the difference between a model and a toy!
I strongly suggest you dont buy the Roundhouse already equippted with the MRC Decoder. You will be better off buying a unit WITHOUT decoder and installing one yourself using the plug or hardwiring.
For me, cheaper does not always equal long life and happiness. Yes the spectrums cost more and really arent for children at 5 years old. A child that young isnt capable really of appreciating quality engines the way we do.
here's a link to my thread on how i installed a tsunami decoder in a bachmann 4-6-0
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1/738146/ShowPost.aspx#738146
using the bachmann 'small' tender i decided there wasn't enough room for the speaker and their 8 pin connector board so i pulled it out and hard wired it . for my next one i'll probably get the newer micro-tsunami and see how that fits .
note that the bachmann 2-8-0 represents a later design than the 4-6-0 and looks much bigger when sitting next to it . i don't own a 4-4-0 yet so can't compare
sparkyjay31 wrote:Okay here is the next question. Is the Spectrum line already set for a 8 pin sound decoder? Are these really a "plug and play" or is hard wiring required? I know enough about wiring to blow myself across the room! That's why I love my Power Cab! But all the wiring for DCC and sound for loco's has me baffled.
Any Spectrum engines - actually most engines made in the last 10 years - come with a DCC 8-pin decoder receptacle. BTW Spectrum offers many of their steam engines with DCC or DCC sound factory installed.
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=40281
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=40289
The 2-8-0 is a pre-WW1 design (just before the USRA designs of 1918-19) so should work for your 1890-1920 era.
p.s. I believe the first Spectrum steam engine was the Pennsylvania K-4 pacific in the 1980's, not the 2-8-0...that was a little later.
I have several of the newer Spectrum with DCC as well as the DCC ready engines. The new DCC engines are great runners, slow speed response and adeqate pulling power for their size. The new 4-4-0 model is a bit on the light side for pulling power but it is adequate.
I have no complaints with the newer DCC on board engines.
Several of the Spectrum steamers are featured in the review section of the Model Railroader main page.
The round house breaks down into 6 wires. two for headlight, two for motor control and two for pickups.
The spectrum also breaks down to 6 wires.
The secret to understanding DCC is that the motor gets it's power AND commands DIRECT from the decoder not directly off the wheels UNLESS it is a DUAL mode decoder capable of operating either DC or DCC.
I'll quiet down now. Dont want to confuse things. There are three types of plugs I know of. 8, 9 and I think 22 pin. But not sure about the last item.
The best plugs are the idiot proof ones with the protected pin one.
I have the 8 pin nmra connector and the 9 pin JST connector.
Good links.
http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/nswmn/index.htm
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/
I use the NCE Power Cab without the booster. I only run two or three engines.
http://www.ncedcc.com/ncetest/nce2.htm
I reckon that the Bman 4-4-0 sound install will be very similar to that of the 4-6-0. The problem is the tender being so small and it contains a board inside which needs to be removed to make room.
Someone had a outstanding thread on this forum specifically dedicated to installing into a Bman 4-6-0 some time ago complete with pictures.
Sorry--WRONG! My Roundhouse kit-built Shay of some 20 years ago is still outperforming my Spectrum shay as far as pulling power, though it was a BEAR to build. Actually, Roundhouse had a whole series of 'generic' kits for 0-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-4-2 and 2-6-2 locomotives all based on the "Harriman Standard" design used by SP, UP and IC. They came with double reduction gear, and after tweaking, were good, smooth little runners, and not bad haulers, either. Though not as well detailed as newer steam, you could use Cal-Scale detail parts to dress them up as you saw fit. Nice little locos. they also made a series of 'Old Timer' 2-8-0's and 4-6-0's that were generally based on an 1880's Rio Grande design. I've still got a couple of them, and they do the job rather nicely.
However I definitely agree with you about the Bachmann Spectrums--I have one of their 2-8-0's and it's an INCREDIBLY sweet loco, a fine runner and a very decent puller. And from what I've heard, their 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 locos are just as nice.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I have the Bachmann Spectrum 4-6-2 K-4 Pacific which came from the factory with DCC and Tsunami sound already installed.
I am happy as a clam with it. It was $170 at Trainworld.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!