ModelRailroader.com Reader Poll – January 15, 2004

[JoeUmp]

Swieder has a valid point to make. the only problem with that idea is that sometimes when sales of a product go down what happens is that instead of the manufacturer dropping prices to tempt buyers back, they drop the product line entirely and WE lose a valuable product.

[curtisporky]

I think it will only serve as a way to increase prices AGAIN; it seems to me the price on Athearn and others goes up weekly. At Caboose Hobbies in Denver, one can choose from a total of about forty "blue box" kits- there used to be hundreds to choose from. I can only imagine that Horizon will pu***he R-T-R and pull the "blue box." It's always a shame when these big mergers happen, no mater what the product or service.
curtisporky

[brothaslide]

I wouldn't suprise me if we were buying our train "stuff" from WalMart in the next fews years - what does this mean for the LHS?[?]

[MononFan]

While a bad thing for this hobby - it was predictable. Wall Street has made "bigger is better" the mantra and encouraged buy outs. That has been helped along by a general culture of greed in this country. It's my feeling that that culture has now invaded our little corner of the world. When Athearn was bought out... did it go to an established model railroad manufacturer or someone who had a life-long interest in trains? No. It went to a business man... and in this country a business man does what is best for the bottom line, first the companies bottom line and then his bottom line. Athearn was brought back into the forefront of the hobby for one purpose only - to be attractive as a buy out.
There is nothing good that will come of this - or any further consolidation - especially if it is along the current line of greed and restraining trade.
I expect we will see fewer 'blue box' products and what we do see will cost more. We will have far fewer discounters who can deal in Athearn products. That means the new way to do business (make a ton, sell at full price and then dump, dump, dump) will not work and so prices will rise as fewer product is sold (fewer channels, fewer discounts, fewer sales). Prices will have to rise to cover the cost of the buy out. So, we will see less product, less availability and higher prices.
I can only hope other companies don't fall. While I am pessimistic about Athearn, I am still optimistic about the hobby... it has been kept alive for years by the talent and energies of dedicated people. Even though the owners of Athearn went "Wall Street" on us, I don't think most of our manufacturers have that in mind.

[Anonymous]

Time will tell what will happen to Athearn, I guess we will have to wait and see. The one thing that bothers me most is the apparent 'only brick and mortar hobby shops will be able to handle Athearn products' policy. I tend to do most of my hobby product shopping on-line these days. If Athearn products are not available from an online shop because they do not have a storefront, then I will be purchasing fewer Athearn products. If the prices at the physical stores do increase over what I would find reasonable, I will be purchasing no Athearn products. But I can purchase styrene sheets and shapes and refine my scratchbuilding skills!
Just my two pennies.
Dave

[Anonymous]

I hope that independant manufacturing folks will stay that way. It's not good to put all your eggs, or models into one basket. I was quite happy with the old way things were done.

[lyctus]

Wow ! choochoo57, are you the guy who is building the really high brick wall all around the 48 contiguous states ? What seems to happen is that industry ends up happening where it makes most sense, so high volume, mass appeal stuff goes to cheaper labour countries and specialised low volume higher cost items centre on advanced industrialised economies. Our hobby supports a bit of both.
I don't necessarily subscribe to the "junk" label for Asian producers. They react to consumer demand, and some really good product comes out of Asia if the customer (read distributor/manufacturer) insists on a certain level of quality. I am most impressed with the offerings of Bachmann for example which comes out of China. Other brand names also source from China and their stuff is fine.
You would probably gape if you drove through the industrial areas of ,for example, Shanghai, to read the top end brands being produced in factories there and marketed as top US and Euro produced product at massive mark-ups in our stores . We all have to learn to co-exist and not to erect walls to safeguard the backyard from foreign fiends !
Sure ,US (and Aussie,and Euro) factories can do great quality stuff, its just that most of us would not buy it 'cos we couldn't afford it.

[trainfan1221]

Sure, after all since the real railroads seem to get bought out when they become succesful (see Wisconsin Central) why shouldn`t the model manufacturers?

[Anonymous]

only time will tell.

[Anonymous]

For the most part, I do not purchase Athearn products. I don't really care who owns them or buys them.
Bill

[Anonymous]

(Dave Fallon) It saddens me greatly to see Athearn disappear into the hugh mega-
companies that seem to be consuming everything intheir pathes. I loved Athearn as
a family company that seemed to be in touch with the Railfan. I've asked about things
from them for thirty-five years and always rec'd a reply; mainly handwritten; I bet that's
gone with Horizon! I enjoyed Athearn's kits, and I want kits, buts that's also gone! Has
this hobby got so lazy it doesn't want to put things together anymore. And the prices,
they're out of sight; I don't suspect they'll be too many kids coming along to take our
places when were gone! Sorry to see Athearn lost forever, but money speaks louder
than loyalty, and that's what Mr. Irv had for his railfan friends and customers. If I'm
going to have to pay the new higher inflated prices, I'll just buy Proto 2000 instead!!!!!!

[trainfan1221]

CNWfan,
Not much of a UP fan, are you?

[trolleyboy]

I just wanted to revisit this as since the initial horizon purchase we have seenMDC brought into the fold and Bowser has bought stewart hobbies as well. With Lionel in chapter 11 and i've heard that accurail is looking for a purchaser as well 2005 could be a year of continuing mergers. In today's day and age it seems that manufacturers and distributers need to get bigger and more diverse to survive. Be it from leagal pressure or just the fact that we the buying public want more and more at reasonable prices. just my 2 cents. TB

[darth9x9]

It depends. I have talked with IM and other manufacturers and everyone always says they are for sale if the price is right. I don't think Horizon bought Athearn with the intentions of killing the hobby as that would be a collosal waste of investment. As long as the other manufactures have strong sales for their product lines, they will be around. Not many of today's manufacturers are mom/pop shops or family owned. Most are corporately owned and have they have stock holders to please. It also seems that for every company that gets purchased, two more new ones come along. I think Red Caboose has come a long way in the past couple of years and I'm sure there are more coming.

[BRAKIE]

Bergie,I fully believe we are seeing the dawning of a new era.The manufacturers that is not bought out will more then likely be distributed by one distributor.This will include Kato USA...
The reasons are many but,I feel its mostly "rational realization of the model railroad plant" that is IF the hobby is to survive the coming years it must be streamlined like we have seen railroads and some industries do over the past several years...The benefits will be many including more of a stable distributor price base and limit distribution to only brick and mortar hobby shops... Instead of the various discounts we see today including the deep discounters prices will be more equal regardless if one buys a locomotive off the Internet(from a brick and mortar hobby shop) or at the LHS..I also feel this will be one way the distributors can help the Mom & Pop hobby shops survive the coming years.After all if they have a stable distributor price base that kills the basement deep discounters then that would or should boost LHS sales..
Of course that means we will lose the deep discount prices we are enjoying today.So in all truth its win/win/lose..

[jfugate]

Brakie:

I can only see what you suggest working if everyone plays along. But all you need is one "entrepreneur" type to provide options and your simplistic "one outlet selling model" breaks down.

Also, I see a total move away from online sales of Model RR goods a giant step backward. Any store/retail outlet/distributor that offers online purchasing capability finds that it dramatically expands their potential market.

The online sales model is here to stay, like it or not. In fact I know of one local LHS who found their online sales expanded their market so much that they have completely shut down their brick and motar operation and now *only* sell online.

Consolidation in the industry to get economies of scale, certainly. One benevolent single source "controlling" the market through only brick and mortar outlets -- not hardly.

[Anonymous]

I guess I'm coming in at the last second, so to speak, on this but this is also the first I've heard about this merger. First off, it doesn't surprise me. This merger activity is the current rage, it seems, and is bound to continue as long as people are willing to sell and make MORE money. That's what it's all about anymore. So, the products suffer, the service suffers, the customers suffer. But as to killing off the hobby? I don't think that's very likely. There are absolutely too many talented people in this hobby with more ways and means of continuing or prospering in model railroading to let it slip away. As evidenced in these forums, in MR articles, and other hobby pubs. there is enough ingenuity and creativity to keep it going strong. Besides it would be business suicide to make it impossible for hobbyists to pursue their chosen modeling hobby. Still, you have to wonder not only when it will end but how far they are willing to go before a stop is put to it or the company realizes they've gone too far. Don't know if this is a contribution or just babbling. I DO know it's frustrating!

[BRAKIE]

Originally posted by jfugate

Brakie:

I can only see what you suggest working if everyone plays along. But all you need is one "entrepreneur" type to provide options and your simplistic "one outlet selling model" breaks down.
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True..However,IF he/she does not have a brick and mortar store then they will have a whale of a time buying anything..As a former part time train show dealer without a brick and mortar shop I could no longer buy Athearn products at wholesale prices.Athearn made up 45% of my sales.

Also, I see a total move away from online sales of Model RR goods a giant step backward. Any store/retail outlet/distributor that offers online purchasing capability finds that it dramatically expands their potential market.
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No..Just the DEEP DISCOUNTERS not those offering 10-15% discount..In other words no more(say) $99.00 P2K locomotives for $29.95.
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The online sales model is here to stay, like it or not. In fact I know of one local LHS who found their online sales expanded their market so much that they have completely shut down their brick and mortar operation and now *only* sell online.
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Only if the wholesalers will sell to those on line dealers that does not have a brick and mortar store.See what I am getting at? No store? No wholesale buying end of subject from the distributors.
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Consolidation in the industry to get economies of scale, certainly. One benevolent single source "controlling" the market through only brick and mortar outlets -- not hardly.
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Not handy for us for sure.Again it more convenient to the manufacturers that sets the high MSRP and those distributors *could/would* adjust their wholesale prices more closely to the MRSP thus killing the deep discounts that we are enjoying today.

Now in all truth I like it is now with the deep discounts.But...I fear those deep discounts is living on borrowed time if the mergers continue and the wholesalers get tough and sell only to the brick and mortar stores regardless if they sell on line or not.

I think this is a rather interesting topic and discussion.[:D]

Joe,Thanks for your views on a rather important matter that should concern us all.[:D]

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.

"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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