NCE POWER CAB faulty speed wheel

[maxman]

I believe that it was smoked.

[selector]

I have only sped-read through this thread, but is our OP quite certain he is expected to pay return shipping AFTER it is repaired?  Any warranty work I have sought requires me to pay to get the item to the repair facility, but they ship it back at their cost.  If it's out of warranty, that's absolutely the onus on the sender to pay for transportation, both ways.  Even so, my last repair sent to BLI was a set fee of $40 ten years ago, out of warranty, and that fee included return shipping.

It might be worth clarifying NCE's position...if you haven't smoked that bridge already. 

[Overmod]

Hmmmm...

Get the name and address of the NCE technician you contacted.  Sell him the cab via eBay for 'parts or repair -- not working' with free shipping option for $5.  eBay will helpfully take out the tax for $5 and Customs will take due note... or not... as the thing crosses the border with all the other eBay stuff.

When he gets it done, he sells it back to you on eBay for a similar price and bills what the shipping calculator tells him to... bet that's a potload less than you were being 'quoted'.

Only partly tongue-in-cheek...

[Hawks Rule]

BATMAN

 

 

BigDaddy

I'll pick up the tab for shipping and this mysterious (at least to those of us south of the border) brokerage fee

 

 

If you are unaware of this mysterious brokerage fee I have to ask how much have you imported from abroad? My wife sends a lot of stuff to the U.S. and the courier companies love to charge the recipients in the U.S. brokerage fees. Fortunately for us and them we live right on the border and run the stuff to FedEx or UPS in Bellingham to save the fee having to be paid by the receiver in the U.S.

Companies like FedEx and UPS charge us a brokerage fee for the simple pleasure of getting our package through customs.

Canada customs is located in the massive Canada Post processing plant(s) and it is a seamless operation of the parcel moving through Customs into the mail stream. If and only if we get nailed for duty or import/sales tax there will be a small fee charged by Canada Post for collecting it, Usually $5.00. More often than not it doesn't happen. In really busy times the stuff gets pushed through without being checked at all.

The Canada/U.S. free trade agreement allows for goods Manufactured in either country to pass back and forth duty/tariff-free. Canada has tariffs on some goods from other countries such as China and that means there is no sneaking these goods in the back door. Meaning you can't sneak Chinese products into Canada via the U.S. So if you order your Chinese-made trains from the U.S. you have to pay the duties/tariffs as if they came directly from China. This is just a broad example and the exceptions will be endless so please take it that way.

Moving stuff around the world was my job for 36 years and though I did not have to deal with duties, tariffs, or taxes as I was usually moving sensitive material for Government(s) I worked with the courier companies and Post Offices of the world often as we would grab space on their aircraft if needed. Brokerage fees are a cash grab by courier companies for little or no service performed. 

 

Brent, great explanation!

I could not have explained it better myself!!

[BATMAN]

BigDaddy

I'll pick up the tab for shipping and this mysterious (at least to those of us south of the border) brokerage fee

If you are unaware of this mysterious brokerage fee I have to ask how much have you imported from abroad? My wife sends a lot of stuff to the U.S. and the courier companies love to charge the recipients in the U.S. brokerage fees. Fortunately for us and them we live right on the border and run the stuff to FedEx or UPS in Bellingham to save the fee having to be paid by the receiver in the U.S.

Companies like FedEx and UPS charge us a brokerage fee for the simple pleasure of getting our package through customs.

Canada customs is located in the massive Canada Post processing plant(s) and it is a seamless operation of the parcel moving through Customs into the mail stream. If and only if we get nailed for duty or import/sales tax there will be a small fee charged by Canada Post for collecting it, Usually $5.00. More often than not it doesn't happen. In really busy times the stuff gets pushed through without being checked at all.

The Canada/U.S. free trade agreement allows for goods Manufactured in either country to pass back and forth duty/tariff-free. Canada has tariffs on some goods from other countries such as China and that means there is no sneaking these goods in the back door. Meaning you can't sneak Chinese products into Canada via the U.S. So if you order your Chinese-made trains from the U.S. you have to pay the duties/tariffs as if they came directly from China. This is just a broad example and the exceptions will be endless so please take it that way.

Moving stuff around the world was my job for 36 years and though I did not have to deal with duties, tariffs, or taxes as I was usually moving sensitive material for Government(s) I worked with the courier companies and Post Offices of the world often as we would grab space on their aircraft if needed. Brokerage fees are a cash grab by courier companies for little or no service performed. 

[Hawks Rule]

BigDaddy

1. I'm sorry you are annoyed at me I was trying to inject some humor in the subject and I'd be happy to buy you a beer if we ever meet, but you are correct, whatever Canadian Brokerage Fee is, whatever Canadian Postal Fees are: it is your politics not ours.
2. Anything you buy and it breaks, out of warranty from any other country: China, Britain, Australia, Germany, Brazil will not have free postage to be repaired.
3. I'd be ticked if i had to pay that much to repair something too, but it's hardly NCE's fault.

 

 

 

No worries Henry!

If we ever meet, Beer sounds great!!

Cheers.

[BigDaddy]

1. I'm sorry you are annoyed at me I was trying to inject some humor in the subject and I'd be happy to buy you a beer if we ever meet, but you are correct, whatever Canadian Brokerage Fee is, whatever Canadian Postal Fees are: it is your politics not ours.
2. Anything you buy and it breaks, out of warranty from any other country: China, Britain, Australia, Germany, Brazil will not have free postage to be repaired.
3. I'd be ticked if i had to pay that much to repair something too, but it's hardly NCE's fault.

 

[Hawks Rule]

BigDaddy

I can solve this. 

I'll pick up the tab for shipping and and this mysterious (at least to those of us south of the border) brokerage fee if the OP pays me the difference between his  health insurance and my wifes', for the month and the difference between his NATO expense and mine that which will be billed to my grandchildren and great grandchildren thanks to the foresight of our elected officials.

 

 

Henry,

I'm sure you are a nice guy.

I have taken all that everyone has thrown at me and like a man, I except it.

A lot of people on this forum shared their views and opinions and I'm ok with that, it's part of what discussions are all about.

The last time I checked though, this forum is about Model trains and not Politics!

Comments like yours about Health Insurance and Nato do not belong in this post.

That's all, other than that I respect eveyone's opinions and input, because we are here to try and solve questions and concerns regarding this hobby!

 

[BigDaddy]

I can solve this. 

I'll pick up the tab for shipping and and this mysterious (at least to those of us south of the border) brokerage fee if the OP pays me the difference between his  health insurance and my wifes', for the month and the difference between his NATO expense and mine that which will be billed to my grandchildren and great grandchildren thanks to the foresight of our elected officials.

 

[Ringo58]

Hawks Rule

They told me that there was a 1 year limited warranty on the unit and to contact NCE, which I did.

Well theres your problem. It's out of warranty. Why should they have to cover the cost of shipping when they're already replacing the wheel for free? Seems a bit silly to get upset over that. 

Hawks Rule

 

I find it odd that today's Model train hobby stores do not have there own people who can fix things that one purchases from them?

4 out of 5 by me will repair stuff or install decoders 

[Pruitt]

BATMAN

NCE has lost a customer and received bad press. They should have paid the $15.00 and considered it good value for the good press they would receive. 

Personally, I would say they haven't lost much. From the raging tone of the OP in all his posts in this thread, I suspect that even shipping him a totally new unit at no cost would have triggered his ire in some other way.

NCE's rep hasn't suffered one whit because of this from my viewpoint.

[nealknows]

Wow! I'm not so sure NCE should take all the blame. While no product is 1000% perfect, it's part of an electrical product, things happen. I've had a couple issues and NCE did some work free of charge, and some I was charged to repair. Everything was out of warranty. While NCE makes great products (in my personal opinion), their staff is small and very hands on. They're not like a Walthers or Athearn, so the pockets are most likely not as deep.

I will tell you this: Canada has put a lot of taxes for goods coming into their country from the US. I do know this for fact as we ship train supplies to our customers in Canada. Recently they added another layer of taxes, according to one of our dealers. It's ridiculous! 

I wonder if he tried to see if there's a DCC dealer who does custom decoder installations in Canada who may be able to repair his throttle at a reasonable (?) Canadian cost? That may be another possible resource for him. 

So, while NCE may not be able to satisfy the OP the way he wanted, I am sure they did what they could within their boundaries (meaning US boundaries). 

 

[Pruitt]

Hawks Rule

Once again quality contol in ANY DCC product comes into play.

I have owned my NCE Power Cab for about 1/1/2 years now, hardly ever used.

I have it hooked up to my test track only.

My Power Cab seems to have developed a fault when I use the wheel to increase speed it is flakey and not consitant.

I am also finding decreasing the speed is flakey, sometimes the speed actually increases when you roll the wheel to decrease speed.

I emailed NCE, this was their response: " We will replace the wheel at no charge if you send it in for service"

Well, here is the problem, I would have to open the back of the power cab and de-solder the wheel from the encoder!

I answered NCE back and told them that I did not feel comfortable opening the unit and de-soldering the wheel form the encoder and said would it not be easier to just send back the control unit and have them do it?

Once again, I am finding that DCC products seem to have NO QUALITY CONTROL!

How can a fairly new unit, hardly used already have a defect?

Are they using cheap inferior pieces?

I will not, repeat will not open the back and try to remove the wheel!

Why should I?

If they believe in CUSTOMER SERVICE, they should just instruct me to send back the unit and fix it!!

Better still, if they made a more reliable product, I wouldn't have to go through this crap!! 

QUALITTY CONTROL IS LOST IN THE DCC MODEL TRAIN HOBBY!!!!

Geez, guy, that's quite a chip you're carrying!

I talked to NCE a couple days ago about that very same problem on my Power Pro master throttle. I was told to send in the throttle and they would replace the wheel at no cost (other than shipping it to them).

Pretty good customer service!

They know that these wheels are a bit delicate and can get flakey, so they offer to replace them for free!

It's very easy to damage these wheels, which is why they offer to replace them. I'm pretty sure that yours, like mine, was fine when it left the factory. After just a short period of time, mine started acting up. I apparently was operating it a bit more vigorously than I should have. A light touch is required for these things.

For the last several years I've simply used the buttons, but I asked about the wheel when I called up to talk about upgrading my system. That's when he said FREE, and then explained the simple return process - ship the throttle with a note explaining the problem and they'll take care of it. You're out shipping costs and a few weeks waiting for the repaired unit to come back, but that's all.

As for the shipping cost - that's not NCE's fault. Do you have any friends in the US you can mail the unit to and have them send it in?

[Overmod]

Long tradition in electronics warranty practice is that you pay shipping and insurance to get it to them; they pay shipping and insurance to get it back to you.

Naturally it would be fairer for them to pay shipping both ways if the unit were received DOA or flaky.  In this case you've gotten more than the warranted time out of the thing, so it is not entirely "their fault", and also not their nominal/legal responsibility to get an independent warranty servicer (if they use them) to do the free repair.

On the other hand, all they 'had' to do was say the unit is out of warranty (which it clearly is) and tell you their terms for out-of-warranty work... which might involve the customer paying to ship it both ways, especially if trans-border, insured, signed-for delivery is involved.  I repeat it is generous of them to fix the electronics free out of warranty.

I wouldn't hesitate to have them tell you the correct part, order a few (so when the replacement starts to flake, too, you have short downtime) and desolder/solder as necessary to get it done.  Members here can advise as necessary, and I suspect NCE will, too, as Internet connection to Canada is essentially free marginal cost and scanning tech material little more...

[tstage]

And - encoder or no encoder - the Power Cab is still quite usable with just the gross & fine speed buttons.  I use those more than I use the encoder.

Tom

[richhotrain]

Hawks Rule

NCE just got back to me.

Good news, they will fix it for free if I send in the whole unit.

Bad news, they want me to pay shipping and brokerge fees, since I live in Canada.

1.cost to ship the unit to NCE $20-$25.

2. cost of it being shipped back to me plus Brokerage fees $ 40-$60!

Definitely, not worth it!!!

So, once again I get burned with DCC products.

Well there is the problem. You live in Canada. You seem like a nice guy, so move to the U.S. where people are treated more fairly.  

And, the blanket indictment of DCC products is misdirected. Their record of quality control is no better, no worse, than any other electronic product.  

Rich

[MisterBeasley]

BATMAN

Hawks Rule

A few months ago a poorly CHINESE made Athearn Genesis 4-8-4 Northern with gear problems.

I have the same problem with those poorly CANADIAN made hockey sticks constantly breaking in my hands. 

Don't use those hard rubber hockey pucks!  And don't, no matter how upset you are at yourself, give the crossbar a two-hander!

I'm a model railroader, dang it.  I own what I own.  I maintain my equipment, because maintenance is part of any railroad, full size or model.  Unless it's an obvious birth defect, I should fix it, and I should have that ability.  My brand new GG1 didn't make it once around my layout before a coupler broke, so I replaced the coupler.  I have taken apart DCC throttles because the tether/cable failed.  Burned out headlight?  Piece of cake, and it runs cooler and brighter because I upgraded when I replaced.

You don't need a $200 soldering station.  I've got a $20 pencil iron and a solder sucker, plus a magnifying lamp I got for another $20.

Don't be angry or afraid.  Be inspired and confident.  This is the way the hobby works best.

[Hawks Rule]

[quote user="maxman"

No comment!

 

Sorry I wasted eveyone's time with this!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

f

 

Hawks Rule

I DID NOT SAY THAT I WANTED IT FIXED FOR FREE!

 

 

So if they wanted to charge you for making the repair, but paid shippimg that would have been okay?

 

[/quote]

[BigDaddy]

How do brokerage fees work in Canada?  Are their no exceptions, like for getting things repaired?

Does the Canadian postal service run on a deficit or a profit?

[maxman]

Hawks Rule

I DID NOT SAY THAT I WANTED IT FIXED FOR FREE!

So if they wanted to charge you for making the repair, but paid shippimg that would have been okay?

[JDawg]

In my opinion, I can understand why NCE asks its overseas customers to pay return shipping. NCE is a product manufacturer more than it is a distributor. Sure they sell direct to consumer, but I doubt that they ship tons and tons of consumer orders abroad. They most likely don't have the same discount for such orders as do other vendors.

NCE also has a different market strategy than does, say, digitrax. Digitrax will have multiple sales per person per layout. (I.E. one decoder per locomotive) (Note: NCE sells decoders too, but that is not the issue here. The product in question is a dcc system.)

You only buy one system per layout per person. Thus they don't have repeat customer for such products. They make their initial money, but after that they make nothing on that purchase, and their is little potential for a repeat buyer. So they need to recoup what money they can on warranty work, especially when the work is from another country.

In conclusion, I get the frustration about having to pay shipping, but remember, NCE is more than likely going to have to pay about as much as you are for overseas shipping. (Domestic will be less than consumer of course) Sure their customer service may stink, but they also make quality products that lots of people use, enjoy, and even love.   

[Hawks Rule]

maxman

NCE sells that tiny wheel for about $12.  I'm sure you could have purchased it from some electronics vendor for less.  But you don't want to solder.  So NCE has to pay the technician who can solder to make the repair.

If you lived in the USA you wouldn't have an issue with shipping cost.

Plus you say that you've only had the thing for a year and a half and it was "hardly used".  If I understand correctly, the warranty was 1 year.  And now you want it fixed for free.  Must be one of those evergreen warranties.

And where did you buy the throttle?  If it was from a local shop would you expect them to fix it for free?

 

 

"And now you want it fixed for free.  Must be one of those evergreen warranties".

Please, do not make blanket statements like this and don't put words in my mouth!

I DID NOT SAY THAT I WANTED IT FIXED FOR FREE!

Read my posts!!

I said that I did not want to pay for the shipping, not the repair work!!

Also, if you read one of my posts I stated that Digitrax fixed one of my sound decoders, earlier this year and did not charge me for shipping.

So, the repair work is not and never was the issue, because I was well aware that the warranty was only 1 year and I had past that.

It was the cost of shipping that I found petty on their part.

 

[maxman]

NCE sells that tiny wheel for about $12.  I'm sure you could have purchased it from some electronics vendor for less.  But you don't want to solder.  So NCE has to pay the technician who can solder to make the repair.

If you lived in the USA you wouldn't have an issue with shipping cost.

Plus you say that you've only had the thing for a year and a half and it was "hardly used".  If I understand correctly, the warranty was 1 year.  And now you want it fixed for free.  Must be one of those evergreen warranties.

And where did you buy the throttle?  If it was from a local shop would you expect them to fix it for free?

[woodone]

I think you see this in all business - you phone in with a problem- you are lucky if you get to speak to a live person, push this button or that button and the call goes to a voice mailbox, if you are lucky you will get a call back-problem you  are not home when this call comes back to you- now it in your voice mail- you return call- guess what- your back to step one-once you are finally in touch with a person they have protocalls to follow. If you can not get in touch with a person that has the atthority to give you something for free/warranty or bend the rules you are left it in the cold. Model train manufactures are not the only people that you run into that will do this. Bad for business - you bet but the low man on the phone could care less.

[BATMAN]

I have had the same issues, we probably all have. I have had the best customer service from Rapido, better than with anything I have ever owned period, not just train stuff. That being said I have had customer service from other makers that goes to the other end of the spectrum and that always comes into play at decision time. 

There is an MRR retailer that has had some bad comments. I have never had an issue with them, in fact, I have had great service from them. I will walk with my wallet in a heartbeat if that ever changes.

NCE has lost a customer and received bad press. They should have paid the $15.00 and considered it good value for the good press they would receive. If they move that $15.00 to their advertising budget the return on investment would have given a good return.

[Hawks Rule]

After frustrating emails, back and forth and not getting a reply on the last message I sent NCE, which was some constructive criticism, I deceided to phone them directly.

The Tech guy still insisted that, I pay the shipping charges of $15.00 for a tiny wheel.

I explained to him that I had a problem with Digitrax's sound decoder, sent it to them and they fixed it for free and did not charge me anything to ship it.

He still stated that they would not incur the shipping charges.

Now, whether the cost is $1.00 or $10 or $15, I think common sense and good customer care, like their competitor Digitrax has, should have been applied.

Obviously, they do not care, which is sad...

[BATMAN]

The Wright brother's first airplane was a pretty fragile affair and this is where we are with electronics. I guess we could go back and play with our Meccano sets, I still have all mine. I still have my train stuff from the early sixties and the bakelite in the motors has disintegrated and they don't run anymore. It was a real smoke show. The Meccano still works.

The school issued Dell laptops to my kids starting in grade three, they got new ones every two years. The school had a room full of spare laptops because the failure rate was so high the kids could just swap theirs out if an issue arose. The Dell guy came once a week to do the repairs. It was all part of the contract the school had with Dell. Dell was not in the business of losing money and so all those included repairs were factored in at contract time.

My kids are adults now and they and my wife have Apple laptops that each cost in excess of $2000.00. Both kids always have a spare laptop with them (their old ones) in case, or should I say for when the Apples fail. New technology is incredible in that it affords us so much. The price of having it is, it is fragile and thus expensive to own. Kind of like a Ferrari.

Maybe train manufacturers should offer extended warranties, but by their very nature extended warranties never favour the consumer. The only thing we can do when we look at the cost of these technological marvels is add 10% to what we think they are costing us to buy knowing full well some of them are going in for repair. 

 

[Hawks Rule]

BATMAN

Well, when I take my F-350/7.3ltr into Ford for repairs it cost me at least $25.00 to drive the truck to Ford and then the wife will come and pick me up, there's another $20.00, then the next day she drives me back to pick the truck up, another $20.00, then I drive the truck back home, another $25.00. Should Ford pay for that? Even if it is a warranty repair?

It doesn't matter what it is, faulty product has been around as long as I have been alive (almost 65 years) All these costs need to be factored in when determining whether or not you can afford the hobby. 

I always wanted a sailboat in the 40' range. I could well afford the purchase price which was not a lot when compared to all the other costs associated with boat ownership. I decided owning a boat was not in my financial best interest.

 

Yes, this has always been an expensive hobby, with one exception, when you purchased a model train in the past, they were not poorly made and stopped working after a year and a half.

I have been model railroading for over 50 years and still have my 1950s Lionel and American Flyer trains THAT STILL WORK and do not fall apart!!

Afordability, is not my issue.

I hate spending good money on products that nowadays are poorly made and do not last long!

This is my beef!!

Just read on this forum about problems modlers are having with newly purchased trains, or faulty decoders not even a few months old and the list goes on and on.

If a product is 5-10 years old, that is understandable, but a hardly used controller not even two years old with faulty parts!

No excuse!

BTW you cannot compare a car or truck to this situation.

I was not asking for a new controller or even the thought of sending in the unit because of the costs to do so.

After a few emails to NCE, all I wanted was a lousy, tiny, plastic wheel sent to me and they wanted $15.00 to ship it!

Last month I sent a Digitrax sound decoder to them for repair.

Digitrax fixed it for FREE and DID NOT CARGE ME 01 CENT FOR SHIPPING!

That is what I am talking about!

 

[BATMAN]

Well, when I take my F-350/7.3ltr into Ford for repairs it cost me at least $25.00 to drive the truck to Ford and then the wife will come and pick me up, there's another $20.00, then the next day she drives me back to pick the truck up, another $20.00, then I drive the truck back home, another $25.00. Should Ford pay for that? Even if it is a warranty repair?

It doesn't matter what it is, faulty product has been around as long as I have been alive (almost 65 years) All these costs need to be factored in when determining whether or not you can afford the hobby. 

I always wanted a sailboat in the 40' range. I could well afford the purchase price which was not a lot when compared to all the other costs associated with boat ownership. I decided owning a boat was not in my financial best interest.