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Analog loop reversing relay

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  • Member since
    January 2021
  • 137 posts
Posted by Dave K on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 12:40 PM

You got that right!

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Posted by Dave K on Tuesday, June 1, 2021 7:19 AM

I fixed my problem.  Had a set of feeder wires crossed.  Now running with one turnback, two DPDT switches, and will add another turnback and a DPDT switch.

DMK

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:25 PM

Somewhere in this thread or the other thread, I carefully described how to wire the whole thing for maximum user flexiblity.

Apparently that was not helpful, not read or not understood.

Common rail would be a terrible idea on the little layout.

But don't take my word for it.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by gregc on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 4:41 PM

Dave K
Considering all of the polarity changes, should I consider using the "common rail system"?

why would you think common rail would improve things because of all the polarity changes?

each reversing section requires gaps on both rails at its boundaries which implies the mainline has gaps in both rails at its boundaries.   there's no rails in common between the mainline and reversing sections.

 

if you use multiple throttles, there must be switches to connect at least one rail from a block to just one throttle.

both rails of a reversing section must be switched between each throttle along with a DPDT reversing switch.

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

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Posted by Dave K on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 3:39 PM
I do not have DCC. I have simple analog DC.
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Posted by Dave K on Wednesday, May 19, 2021 5:35 AM
Presently, my layout has one reversing turnback, three DPDT switches and five track feeders. I will be adding another reversing turnback. Considering all of the polarity changes, should I consider using the "common rail system"?
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Posted by Dave K on Thursday, May 13, 2021 8:08 AM

Presently, my layout has one turnback and a main line. I have plans for a 2nd turnback. I have the turnback wiring in a block with DPDT switch and the section of track leaving the turnback gapped to control by a 2nd DPDT switch. I do not want to use the throttle to control polarity when the train moves into the main line so I plan to add a 3rd DPDT switch. I assume that I should have terminal boards for both power in from throttle (+/-) and power to DPDT's, and from from DPDT's to track feeders?
Regards,

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Posted by Dave K on Sunday, May 2, 2021 8:37 AM

I have figured out how to use the two DPDT switches to get through the 1st turn back but since I do not want to use the throttle diI hrectional switch, how do I add a 3RD dpdt for the main line feeders?

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Posted by Dave K on Friday, April 23, 2021 11:08 AM
Layout wiring on the turn back is now working.  I did vacuum the entire layout.  Who knows what happened?  Maybe some iron filings?
 
I have learned to work the two DPDT switches and the train is running.  However, when the train leaves the last isolated block, I must throw this block off and revers the power to have it continue.  I will look into this.  Probably add a third dpdt
 
Dave K
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Posted by Dave K on Monday, April 19, 2021 1:34 PM

Guys,

 

Thanks to all of you.

 

Dave

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Monday, April 19, 2021 8:11 AM

Dave, A good approach at this point would be to disconnect all the feeder to the track. Then reconnect them one at a time and see when the shorting problem is present again.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Dave K on Monday, April 19, 2021 7:42 AM

The turn back under the bridge is not connected and is isolated from all other track work.  What is confusing why does the turnback block DPDT short in only one direction but the one for the main line does not short?  Isy connecting all of the other feeders in parallel pose a problem?

 

Dave

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Posted by Dave K on Monday, April 19, 2021 7:37 AM

More pictures layout

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Posted by Dave K on Saturday, April 17, 2021 11:16 AM

Pictures

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, April 17, 2021 8:13 AM

Dave K

Sounds reasonable.  And I thought my layout was simple?

 

Dave

 

No layout, DC or DCC powered, that is a small oval and has reverse cutoffs thru the middle is simple from an electrical standpoint.

That is why I would still like to see a drawing of the track plan and not try to figure the track plan out from a few photos.

That is why I have not said "Dave, do this, or do that".

Mike means well, but I'm not sure him or anyone completely understands what your needs are without seeing a map of your track.

I have been an electrcian and electrical control system designer for the last 40 years, and been building DC powered model train layouts for 50 years, and without a track plan, I don't see how anyone can truely give you a complete solution to your problems.

Which is evidenced by the fact that you are still having problems.

Sheldon   

    

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Posted by Dave K on Saturday, April 17, 2021 7:25 AM

Sounds reasonable.  And I thought my layout was simple?

 

Dave

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Posted by Dave K on Friday, April 16, 2021 9:26 AM

I wired the turnback loop DPDT switch as required.  Did the same for the main loop switch.   The main loop is fine but the turnback switch is shorting somewhere?  I am getting a reading when the switch is in the middle and a short in one of the up positions.  I tried to reveres wires in many combinations and chenger switches, all to no avail.

 

Dave

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, April 15, 2021 10:04 AM

Dave K
I gave up n the two DPDT switches to control the turnback and have gone back to one.  Still having difficulty synchronizing the DPDT switch when the train leaves the block and enters the main line.

When using one, you should stop the train in the reversing section, change direction on BOTH the DPDT for the reversing section AND the power pack, then continue as normal.

I hope this works.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Dave K on Thursday, April 15, 2021 10:01 AM

I gave up n the two DPDT switches to control the turnback and have gone back to one.  Still having difficulty synchronizing the DPDT switch when the train leaves the block and enters the main line.  

Dave

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 2:52 PM

Dave K
What is the process to reveres the polarity as the train leaves the main line, enters thr turnback and leaves turnback back on to main line?

Dave,

I am starting a new thread.

Stand by...

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by Dave K on Wednesday, March 31, 2021 9:24 AM

I have installed two DPDT (center off) switches.  One for the main track and on for the gapped turnback.  What is the process to reveres the polarity as the train leaves the main line, enters thr turnback and leaves turnback back on to main line?

Regards

Dave K.

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Posted by Dave K on Saturday, March 27, 2021 10:20 AM

This is a great forum and I like everyone's help.  I will stay connected as I am sure to have more questions.

Dave

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Friday, March 26, 2021 7:26 PM

Lastspikemike
Plus it seems none of us were alert to what your difficulty actually was. Sorry about that.

So now you are speaking for the group?

Confused

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Friday, March 26, 2021 2:04 PM

Dave K

Guys,

 

My other hobby is restore Chevy Corvettes so I have plenty of knowlege with simple 12volt systems.  I do not consider my layout with two turnbacks to be complex.  I have been away from model railroading for a long while and need to catch up on the electric side.

 

Dave

 

No worries, everyone is just trying to understand both what you have, and what your goals are.

I'm pretty deep into some really advanced DC, with wireless throttles, signals, detection, one button route control. I never assume a correct answer until I know what I'm dealing with, so I tried to just let the others help - mostly.

I'm a car guy from way back, worked on a lot od Chevy's, and other stuff.

Restored and built this little hot rod in 1976:

1963 Nova SS convertible - only made that year, never made with a V8 but easily converted with 64 and later parts.

283, Corvette heads and cam, Torker, 600 Holley with vac secondaries, headers/Corvair turbo duals, 4 speed - and a unique drive line that worked well for such a light car - M20 with the low 1st gear, 3.08:1 rear axle.

Enough starting ratio, but lots of top end. 

0-60 - 5.5 sec

1/4 mile - under 14 sec

Top end - my 160 mph Corvette speedo said 135 mph and it was still pulling in 4th gear - that was fast enough in the little unibody convertible.

Fuel economy - driven like you had any sense - 20 mpg highway

Today I just drive a factory hot rod of sorts - 2015 FORD FLEX LIMITED w/ecoboost - almost the same performance stats as the Nova......

Had lots of other hot roads over the years.......

Sheldon

    

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Posted by Dave K on Friday, March 26, 2021 9:06 AM

Guys,

 

My other hobby is restore Chevy Corvettes so I have plenty of knowlege with simple 12volt systems.  I do not consider my layout with two turnbacks to be complex.  I have been away from model railroading for a long while and need to catch up on the electric side.

 

Dave

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  • From: Southern Florida Gulf Coast
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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:18 PM

ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Kevin, it sounds like you and I use a lot of similar wiring methods, one day after the pandemic we must get together in person.

We share a great many similarities.

1954, no Big-Boys, DC control, private roadnames, no foam, etc.

I would love to meet up if there is ever another Timonium show!

-Kevin

Living the dream.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, March 25, 2021 9:13 PM

SeeYou190

 

 
gregc
All of the ideas discussed in this thread would make a good chapter in Best Book about Wiring a Layout

 

Greg, one of the items I think people should ask themselves when deciding to use DC or DCC to control a layout is if they have enough DC knowledge to design, install, and troubleshoot the system all by themselves.

There are just too few people left that can help with complex DC systems, and the books, all written decades ago, were for a different audience.

-Kevin

 

That's partly why I started to write a book, and maybe one day I will finish it, after the layout is built.

This was a bad week for construction progress here at home, but this weekend looks promising.

Kevin, it sounds like you and I use a lot of similar wiring methods, one day after the pandemic we must get together in person.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by SeeYou190 on Thursday, March 25, 2021 8:11 PM

gregc
All of the ideas discussed in this thread would make a good chapter in Best Book about Wiring a Layout

Greg, one of the items I think people should ask themselves when deciding to use DC or DCC to control a layout is if they have enough DC knowledge to design, install, and troubleshoot the system all by themselves.

There are just too few people left that can help with complex DC systems, and the books, all written decades ago, were for a different audience.

-Kevin

Living the dream.

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Thursday, March 25, 2021 7:29 PM

Lastspikemike

The latest Atlas product is made in China. I bought a 220 controller which was completely dud right out of the packaging. I took my multimeter to the same hobby shop to test a second brand new one out of the sane shipment before buying, in order  to save a trip. Tested the circuits as per Atlas schematic right in front of the store Owner. Complete dud as well. The problem seems to be in the spring switch aspect of the plastic sliders. The electrical contact clearance (air gap) inside the switch must be tiny and if the plastic mouldings are poor there's no way they can build them consistently to work properly.  

Atlas Made in the USA switches work really well, even when quite old. Current Atlas QA leaves a lot to be desired apparently. 

Atlas Twin Switch replaces the function of the powerpack reversing switch. For common rail designs I think you need to use the reversing switches closest to the track power and not use the powerpack reversing switch at all. 

 

As much as I am a fan of Atlas track, I have never cared for their wiring devices or their promoted wiring system, even back in the 70's when I worked in the hobby shop.

Sheldon 

    

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