Interesting thoughts about a tender swap. I will inquire with Bachmann
David
Here is what the tender should look like from the Bachmann site. Notice, no eight pin socket. I should have posted this some time ago. He would be better off with a new DCC ready tender with the DC adapter. I bought one some years ago. for another loco. Plugged right in.
https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/HO2-8-2withSOUND_TENDER.pdf
The 4-6-2 is completely different.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I know the recent HO 2-6-0's tether and plug are the same for sound value and DCC-ready versions. My guess is it would be the same for the USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2, but wouldn't hurt to double check with Bachmann.
wjstix My suggestion would be to contact Bachmann's parts / service department and inquire of buying a "DCC ready" tender for your engine. Bachmann has a pretty good supply of parts, and they aren't all that expensive. You just unplug the harness from the tender to the engine, and plug in your new DC tender. If they don't have a Maine Central tender, you can just get any tender that's correct for that engine (any other railroad, or undec) and swap the tender bodies. You could then sell the sound decoder equipped tender, probably for twice what you paid for the DCC-ready tender. I believe the 2-8-2 uses the same USRA tender as several other Bachmann engines, so I'd bet a lot of folks would be interested in buying the sound tender. https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.php
My suggestion would be to contact Bachmann's parts / service department and inquire of buying a "DCC ready" tender for your engine. Bachmann has a pretty good supply of parts, and they aren't all that expensive. You just unplug the harness from the tender to the engine, and plug in your new DC tender. If they don't have a Maine Central tender, you can just get any tender that's correct for that engine (any other railroad, or undec) and swap the tender bodies.
You could then sell the sound decoder equipped tender, probably for twice what you paid for the DCC-ready tender. I believe the 2-8-2 uses the same USRA tender as several other Bachmann engines, so I'd bet a lot of folks would be interested in buying the sound tender.
https://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/index.php
Based on my experience with Bachmann there is possible problem with this solution. On other Bachmann locos I have worked on, the DCC w/sound versions have different pin assignments between the engine and tender from the DCC ready versions. Example the pickup polarity of the loco may be reversed in the plug.
A better solution might be to see if Bachmann has a DC light board separate or take the light board out.
In any case double check the wiring.
Sheldon
I have to agree. I just looked at the tender diagram. Removing the decoder and rewiring would be an effort.
Dual mode decoders with DC do not wake up until the track voltage is about five volts and about seven volts for the loco to move. Nature of the beast.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell To mute on Digitrax you just hit a button. He does not have DCC....... Sheldon
rrebell To mute on Digitrax you just hit a button.
To mute on Digitrax you just hit a button.
He does not have DCC.......
MECman Sorry to be absent from my own thread. My query was moved from general discussion and I didn't realize it. Thought it was deleted. I believe Sheldon has explained why removing the decoder completely is my best option for straight DC without sound. My Bachmann 2-8-0 without dcc has much better low speed performance than the sound value 2-8-2. I'm a complete ignoramus when it comes to electronics, so perhaps I should bring this to my lhs repair guy. It is a nice looking model with MEC paint which is hard to find. I'm sure I could figure it out with step by step directions but hard to come by since most folks are delighted with dcc and sound. David
Sorry to be absent from my own thread. My query was moved from general discussion and I didn't realize it. Thought it was deleted. I believe Sheldon has explained why removing the decoder completely is my best option for straight DC without sound. My Bachmann 2-8-0 without dcc has much better low speed performance than the sound value 2-8-2. I'm a complete ignoramus when it comes to electronics, so perhaps I should bring this to my lhs repair guy. It is a nice looking model with MEC paint which is hard to find. I'm sure I could figure it out with step by step directions but hard to come by since most folks are delighted with dcc and sound.
If you have a good repair guy, he will have no problem removing the decoder and rewiring for DC, and making the lights work.
You will be very happy with the performance on DC once the dcoder is gone.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut it's not that hard.
And I agree, just thinking out loud on the OP's options.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewi Well, I hate to drag this on. following Randy's common sense reminder as to how DC locos were wired, (my reference is Athearn BB locos) , and have working directional lights, maybe, if I were the OP, I'd consider disconecting the speaker, and leaving the DM decoder in place, which would seem to be the easiest route for the lighting. I have no idea how any of this would affect the plug-ins, between loco and tender. Like I said, my experience with any of this is older Athearn BB locos, that did not have the board. Mike.
Well, I hate to drag this on. following Randy's common sense reminder as to how DC locos were wired, (my reference is Athearn BB locos) , and have working directional lights, maybe, if I were the OP, I'd consider disconecting the speaker, and leaving the DM decoder in place, which would seem to be the easiest route for the lighting.
I have no idea how any of this would affect the plug-ins, between loco and tender.
Like I said, my experience with any of this is older Athearn BB locos, that did not have the board.
Easiest? Yes. Best? No.
DCC locos, especially with sound, operated with DC run badly. You turn the throttle up half way before they move, then your speed control is "touchy".
Since the OP does not want sound, his loco will run much better with the decoder removed.
At this point we have no idea of his skills, or his access to someone with the necessary skills and knowledge.
But it's not that hard.
rrebell Best advise would be trade it for a DC engine. Though I think the one he has is a very good value for the price (asuming he didn't pay MRRP), there are much better engines he could get that will run even better.
Best advise would be trade it for a DC engine. Though I think the one he has is a very good value for the price (asuming he didn't pay MRRP), there are much better engines he could get that will run even better.
What does this mean? I don't have one, but I have seen these locos run, they run very nice.
What would be better if he wants a USRA light Mikado? And I assume in Maine Central?
He wants DC without sound, so Broadway is not a better choice?
Please explain?
mbinsewiProbably a dumb question, but...
What I wondered, on and off, is whether one of the 'Quantum Engineer' style boxes to access features on some locomotives, could give him the ability to send the CV8 code to mute the sound with a simple button push every time the locomotive starts making noise...
... of course, the switch in one wire to the speaker is quick and far more definitive in solving his issue.
As far as the lights go, it would be like before decoders, I used to install LED's in my Athearn BB locos.
If he took his loco to someone with a DCC controler, and function buttons, could he set F8, and would the sound stay off when He takes it back to his layout?
Or would it go back to default as soon as he powered it on.?
Probably a dumb question, but...
I looked up an old thread and posted in that instead of this one.
There are constant lighting circuits.
Randy then commented "That simple circuit with the LED and the CL25N3 driver is directional as is. The LED will only light when the polarity is correct, so on one end of the loco, the LED conencts to the right rail and the driver connects to the left rail, for the other end of the loco, flip those connections. If they are backwards (rear light goes on when loco moves forward), just reverse both circuits."
--Randy
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
You need a few more poles than a DPDT switch - but that's a possibility. Position A - DCC: Track pickups feed the decoder, decoder output connect to motor leads. Position B - DC: Track pickups feed motor, motor outoputs of decoder are disconnected, track pickups to decoder are disconnected. A 4PDT switch would work. Doesn't even have to be center off - if you only flip it while the loco is off the track. No lights in DC mode, but it would be easily switched between plain DC and full DCC operation. A jumper would work, too - 8 pin DIP plug, with pins shorted across. Two sockets - in one, the plug links track pickups to the motor, but the decoder inputs and outputs are not connected, in the other, 2 of the pins are track power to decoder, the other 2 are decoder out to motor. Sort of like early Atlas DCC locos, before the decoders could do dual mode. They had a similar jumper, it didn't replace the decoder, the jumper simply decided if the decoder was in the circuit or not.
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I believe the consensus, such as it is, on Sound Value decoders is that they have the LED lighting resistors built into them, and that any 'light' wires therefore need 1K resistors put in circuit with them if the decoder is removed.
I don't think it's worth removing the decoder and retrofitting some light board if all he's concerned about is sound. Wouldn't it work fine to put a switch for the motor lead(s) in, too?
Someone with the appropriate software: what if he used one of those now-infamous DPDT switches in the tender, with the sound wire being switched between DCC and "off" (perhaps null) for DC, and the hot motor lead doubled and switched between continuity in DC and connection to decoder in DCC (with full disconnection between)?
Pickups from one side get tied to one side of the motor, pickups fromt he other side get tied tot he other side of the motor. That's enought o make it run. Lights can get tricky, depends if they are LEDs or incandescent. If LEDs, a resistor is probably required, and a little trial and error to figure out which wire is which so that when the loco moves forward, the front LED is the correct polairty to light the headlight,m and the backup light goes on when the loco is backing up. If the lights are incandescent, and 12-16V, they just get hooked up to track power, but then will be on all the time the loco is running - might want to only hook up the headlight.
If the OP removes the decoder/board completely, what will have to be done so it runs on DC ?
I mean, after he removes it, he'll have a tender full of wires. Whats next?
If unsure about future DCC use, just be careful in removing the board - leave enough lead length to allow the decoder board to be reconnected, or unsolder the wires right from the board itself - after noting carefully where they go. Then it will be a fairly simple job to reinstall it if in the future, the OP converts to DCC.
Plenty of reason to completely remove the decoder if using DC. There's Sheldon's issue with PWM throttles confusing the heck out of the decoder and it's automatic switching between DC and DCC, and then there is the simple fact that the same loco as pure DC may start moving at 2 volts, while the loco with the decoder isn't going to move until 5-6 volts are on the rails, maybe more. So much for doubleheading a pair of them if one has a decoder and the other doesn't.
mbinsewi rrebell No he has a sound value Bachmann. OK, I had to look that up. I get it. I found a Sound Value Decoder Quick start guide, and it says F8 mutes everything. I suppose since he's running in DC, his throttle doesn't have function keys. Just trying to understand this all. Mike.
rrebell No he has a sound value Bachmann.
OK, I had to look that up. I get it.
I found a Sound Value Decoder Quick start guide, and it says F8 mutes everything.
I suppose since he's running in DC, his throttle doesn't have function keys.
Just trying to understand this all.
Mike, it is a DCC loco with sound and a dual mode decoder that works on DC. But, on DC you do not have control of the sounds and you have no function keys to mute the sound.
The decoder and lighting is I suspect all one circuit board, so converting it to true DC without sound means removing the circuit board and rewiring the lights yourself.
Clipping the speaker wire will stop the sound, but the decoder will still require a high throttle position before the loco moves.
If the OP is sure he is not switching to DCC any time soon, and does not want sound, rewiring the loco to eliminate the decoder with give the best throttle performance on DC.
Like all decoders, the sound and value instructions warn against using the decoder with advanced DC throttles with pulse or PWM control.
If he wants 'sound on demand' he could install a simple switch accessible through or under the bottom of the tender, and wire one of the speaker leads to it. Or install a two-pin 'computer' jumper connector like the kind used to set IDE hard drives.
I just looked at the review on MRVP and it looks like the lights are directional. You will lose that if you just rip out the decoder.
People have repeated posted in the past, that the sound on start up cannot be disabled on startup via CV's
I don't know if the video is free or only for members. I an unable to sign out of MRVP to check. It doesn't show the decoder. Sound value does have sound on DC.
My apologies, I assumed it had a similar tender to the 2-8-0 or 4-8-2. Couldnt find any exploded diagrams of this online.
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mbinsewi I guess I'm not understanding what the OP has. So, this is a "DCC ready" (no decoder installed) loco, with sound that works on DC ? Mike.
I guess I'm not understanding what the OP has.
So, this is a "DCC ready" (no decoder installed) loco, with sound that works on DC ?