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Proto 2000 S1 DCC Short Please help in detail Where/What are the motor brushes?

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  • Member since
    November 2019
  • 22 posts
Posted by Avmus on Sunday, December 27, 2020 9:05 AM

Ok so I started the process. I removed a bit of the clip on the bottom leaving just enough to solder the orange wire to. Insulated the joint and bolt/housing for the brush. The brush actually fell out. Just like the Athearn. Now to finish getting things back togther. If any of that sounds wrong, please SHOUT!!

Thanks again!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:25 AM

Avmus

Great!! Thanks for the info and confirmation Rich. This little switcher has been such a problem in just the last 2 days. I bought a digitrax suggested decoder. Wrong idea as they suggest the 166 with the extra harness so you can just plug and go. Easy if you don't want the shell to fit back on. I had to clip that part off and just hardwire. Since I still have it apart I will look into this grounding issue. Thanks again everyone!!! 

I installed the NCE D12SR in all of my S1s and the NCE D14SR in both of my S3s.

The S1 and the S3 will normally run quite smoothly on well installed track. However, should this little switcher derail, it will result in a fatal short to the decoder should the wheels of one of the trucks touch both rails.

As a preventative measure, take off the shell and inspect the location of the orange wire. Not all of these locos are incorrectly wired at the factory.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    November 2019
  • 22 posts
Posted by Avmus on Sunday, December 27, 2020 8:17 AM

Great!! Thanks for the info and confirmation Rich. This little switcher has been such a problem in just the last 2 days. I bought a digitrax suggested decoder. Wrong idea as they suggest the 166 with the extra harness so you can just plug and go. Easy if you don't want the shell to fit back on. I had to clip that part off and just hardwire. Since I still have it apart I will look into this grounding issue. Thanks again everyone!!!

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, December 26, 2020 11:04 PM

tstage

The external motor contact on the bottom side of the motor contacts the chassis or frame via a metal clip.  Remove the metal clip and solder the (orange) wire onto the contact.  A thin piece of Kapton tape directly under the bottom contact between the motor housing and the chassis will provide added insurance that no short will take place and fry your decoder. 

That's it. That's the answer, pure and simple.  Bow

Don't know what anyone else is talking about. Huh?

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • 1,047 posts
Posted by betamax on Saturday, December 26, 2020 11:25 AM

The brushes are usually inside the motor, so you can't see them. But there will be two terminals to connect power to them. If it is an older open frame motor you can see the brushes.

I think what you want to do is make sure one of the brushes is not connected to the frame. That was often done to make the assembly easier by using the frame in place of additional wiring. There is usually a wire connecting one terminal to the frame, held in place by a screw.

So what you want to do is make sure, using an ohmmeter, that each terminal is isolated from the frame: One probe to a terminal, the other on the frame, the move the probe to the other terminal. 

https://dccwiki.com/Decoder_installation

 

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  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 17,249 posts
Posted by tstage on Saturday, December 26, 2020 11:15 AM

Avmus,

The external motor contact on the bottom side of the motor contacts the chassis or frame via a metal clip.  Remove the metal clip and solder the (orange) wire onto the contact.  A thin piece of Kapton tape directly under the bottom contact between the motor housing and the chassis will provide added insurance that no short will take place and fry your decoder.

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • 21,669 posts
Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 26, 2020 10:33 AM

The motor brushes are at one end of the motor, and are spring-loaded against the commutator of the armature.  They are the way electricity is fed through the rotating armature without binding.

in the early days of electric motors the idea was to have a flexible connection to the cylindrical commutator sections; hence there were actual 'brushes'.  Currently, blocks of hard carbon which 'wear' to the shape of even a worn or grooves commutator and provide some sliding (graphite-like) lubrication are used, sliding in guides called brush holders (often molded into the motor end bell, where you see the wires go).

As with some automobile practice, where the metal structure is treated as part of DC circuitry to reduce the length of connection wire necessary, one brush of the motor may be 'grounded' to the frame.  You will want to separate this by providing a new, insulated wire 'lead' from that brush connection back to the corresponding decoder motor lead.  If the motor structure contains a conductive path (e.g. through the bearings) to the ground, this may produce a short if the 'power' is also conductively fastened to a metal frame.  Isolating such a motor (e.g. with Kapton tape) should eliminate this at DCC voltages.

Others here will step you through the specifics of what to do in correct detail.

  • Member since
    November 2019
  • 22 posts
Proto 2000 S1 DCC Short Please help in detail Where/What are the motor brushes?
Posted by Avmus on Saturday, December 26, 2020 9:37 AM

So I just got a New Haven Proto 2000 S1 and have read a bunch of threads about the DCC short issue. I replaced the stock light board with a Digitrax 8 pin so I will have the potential short issue. My questions are how specifically do you correct this? I am confused as to where and what the motor brushes are. I see the orange wire and where that is. Are there any videos specific for the S1 out there?

Pardon my ignorance but reading the Digitrax DCC conversion instructions, the Proto exploded parts diagram, and the threads on here are still confusing since I can't identify the brush motors. I have vast experience with Athearn Blue Box conversions but never have I done a Proto and don't want to mess this up. I have so far successfully replaced one of the bulbs to an LED and got it to run DCC I just want to isolate correctly to avoid blowing the decoder. Thanks so much in advance for any assistance.

Tags: DCC , motor brush , proto2000 , S1 , short

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