Hrvoje
Eric,
adding to what others have said in this post:
I now use the 2 amp Tsunami on everything that has room for it. After blowing up 1 amp decoders in old brass steam that had stall currents under 1 amp, I decided to go with the 2 amp version so that there is more head room if the running gear binds or a short occurs.
I would also add a keep alive if there is room and you can afford it. Even though the loco has a big pick up range with the large wheel base and number of wheels, the keep alive will help smooth out operations and make for a more enjoyable running experience.
The new versions of the Tsunami don't even have a cam wire. They use a more sophisticated chuff algorhythm than the TSU 1 but it still isn’t 100% accurate across all speed ranges. It is close enough for me, but some of my buddies don’t like it, as they are sticklers for chuff rate/wheel rotation accuracy.
Speakers are a personal choice. I agree with others in getting some good baffling set up. I recently used silicone seal to glue the speaker rim to the bottom of the tender creating a seal around the edge of the speaker and the rest of the tender. It was so loud I had to turn the sound down – LOL.
I agree with your choice to re-motor as I have tried the super magnets in old motors and didn’t have good luck with it. While the motor with new magnets ran better than it did previously, it didn’t equal the performance of a new can motor. Many swear by the super magnets – just relaying my experience.
I have installed some flywheels with the re-motors I’ve done but I haven’t noticed any improvement in running in DCC to justify the effort. My favorite local brass guru is removing them these days when he does installs/rebuilds.
Good luck with the install,
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
Sorry, I miss understood your post. I’m into the mini camera thing not a sound cam wiper, I let my decoders do the chuff.When or if you want info on camera onboard either drop me a PM or make a post about it. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
RR_Mel You didn’t go into any details on the sound cam. Do you intend to use it moving, from a locomotive or a freight car? The best tiny camera I have found is the Quelima SQ8, it has a battery and records to a micro SD card as well as WiFi. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
You didn’t go into any details on the sound cam. Do you intend to use it moving, from a locomotive or a freight car? The best tiny camera I have found is the Quelima SQ8, it has a battery and records to a micro SD card as well as WiFi. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
The more I looked into the sound cam idea, the more it looked like an extra complication that might not add enough to be worth it for this project. I was talking about the cams that go around an axle or on the inside of a wheel and contact a wiper to control making a chuff. I've also seen them called chuff cams.
As for cameras, I think I will probably want a camera car of some sort eventually, just for the fun of an "engineer's eye-view" of my eventual layout. But that is probably far enough down the road that I can't even be sure what the state of the tech will be at that point, so I'm not putting time into researching it right now.
-Eric
ekervina I am completely overwhelmed and lost - on that note, I am intrigued by sound cams, but haven't found a good tutorial/guide on them. I appreciate any input.
I am completely overwhelmed and lost - on that note, I am intrigued by sound cams, but haven't found a good tutorial/guide on them.
I appreciate any input.
Spalato68 Dear Eric, Tsunami 2 can handle 2A of motor stall current, so it is according to your preference.
Dear Eric,
Tsunami 2 can handle 2A of motor stall current, so it is according to your preference.
Thank you very much! I didn't notice earlier that there was a 2A version of the Tsunami2 as well as the 1A version. That is very helpful information.
Eric
I ran into Eldon Shirey (Motorman, Micro LocoMotion) in the early 2000s and bought a Faulhaber 2224RS from him for $45. It worked out so good I ordered 5 more, he gave me a price break of $35 each. We remained close friends until his passing. I helped him out with different ventures, he would send me motors to check out for him before he ordered in quantity, some were very nice others junk. The 12 volt Philips 9904 worked very good but he wan't able to buy them in quantity. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Tsunami 2 can handle 2A of motor stall current, so it is according to your preference. Sound is excellent, as is with TCS WOW. ESU still has not converted sound files for articulated locomotives to HiFi quality, but it offers flexibility the other two cannot. Good thing about ESU is that if you e.g. do not like the sound, you can upload new one, for example for any of diesel locomotives, and use the decoder in that locomotive.
I have Tsunami 2 and TCS WOW, and if I would be forced to choose, I would choose Tsunami 2 over TCS WOW just because Tsunami is more pleasant to my ears when simple articlated locomotive is at higher speed. On the other hand, TCS WOW has probably the most impressive sound overall, especially during start and slow motion.
Here is a nice example of Tsunami 2 simple articulated sound:
And here TCS WOW I have installed in my Trix Big Boy (it is too loud, I know):
I used CAM's earlir, but current decoders really make it practically obsolete. One much more important issue is speaker selection and speaker baffle. No matter how excellent sound a certain decoder can deliver, if speaker install is messed up, sound will be bad.
That is for now. Thank you for bringing up so interesting post, I hope you will inform us as project advances.
Btw, welcome to the forum.
I am still hoping for some assistance/advice in identifying what DCC and sound decoders I should be looking at. As I mentioned in my original post, the only ones I can find that look like they will handle the stall current of the motor (1.75A) are the 1A (2A max) Digitrax decoders, but I'm having trouble identifying what ones would be appropriate for a large articulated.
I also haven't had much luck finding a good overview, guide, or tutorial on sound cams. I'm sure there are some out there, I just haven't found them.
Simon - Thanks for all of that. I'll look into the Back EMF issue and see what I think. I noted that some of the Digitrax sound decoders maxed out at 2A, but I'll be sure to keep a close eye on that.Overmod - I'm pretty sure I'm going to remotor this one just so I can be more certain of what kind of current I can expect and so on. I appreciate the info on maintenance for the open frame, though, I might decide to monkey around with it at some point in the future. I have some experience with rare-earth magnets, so I fully appreciate the truth behind your advice not to mess with the plating.Mel - I both hoped and expected you might weigh in on this. I've seen some of your replies to others and paid attention. The loco I have uses a single motor. I've looked at it and considered how I might adapt it, but I don't see how I could mod it to have space for two motors without making significant cuts into the boiler. I don't want to cut up anything I don't have to. It looks like of those you mentioned the Faulhaber would be the one... I see what you mean about the price, though.
Unrelated to my questions, I went to middle school and junior high on Holloman in the early-mid '80s. It was really cool seeing your trestle, since I've seen the real thing.
Thanks again, guys. I welcome any more information anybody would like to send my way.
Your first few post are moderated and delayed.
While I haven’t done an Akane articulated I have done several Rivarossi articulateds (19). Early on I used Faulhaber 2224RS motors. They are very powerful low current motors, also pricy.Over the years I’ve tried a lot of motors, the best is the Faulhaber by far but also the most expensive.I had very good experience with Canon EN22 motors but they are not easily found and the price has increased as the availability decreased. The Canon is a very good motor. Locked rotor 1.1 amps.A nice replacement for the Canon EN22 is the Mabuchi FS-266SA 1G160 readily available on eBay and low cost. It is as nice as the Canon. Locked rotor at 12 volts is 1.2 amps.I replace the Rivarossi frames with a homebrew brass frame and use a pair of Canon EN22 or Mabuchi FS-266 motors. I use a single regular 1.5 amp decoder to drive both motors in my Cab Forwards and AC-9 Yellowstones, 4 years no problems. The two motors draw almost the same current as a single motor, single motor under load runs just under 500ma and the dual motor draws 550ma under the same load. I add 10 ounces of weight to my Rivarossi articulateds increasing the drawbar from 2.8oz (factory) to 5.8oz. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
If you do opt to retain the open-frame motor, be sure to install new high-strength magnets. These dramatically improve performance with few downside concerns or risks.
Just do not file one to fit! Either approximate the thickness with a set of thin magnets, or file a 'spacer' from a magnetizable material (ordinary steels will do it) to get the precise stack dimensions in the original. I believe the magnet stack can be wider than the physical sides and end of the pole pieces if there's clearance ... but don't even try grinding a little of the plating off as an expedient.
Others who have done this can advise you with precise dimensions and parts, and more exact and detailed advice.
Hi there and welcome to the forum! I'm not an expert but I have remotored and installed DCC in few brass and metal engines. Here are my thoughts:
-While I prefer to remotor, it's not absolutely necessary to change your open-frame motor to install DCC. You just need to make sure that the brushes are isolated from the frame. It's often just a matter of clipping the wires that go to the brushes. Personally, I like to remotor. It's a cinch to do, especially if you just change the wire tubing for a new one (if that's what you have in your engine). New motors are much more quiet. You just need a bit of caulk to install them. The basic principle is to get the biggest can motor you can find that will fit inside the loco. NWSL is a good source - you can't go wrong there. But there are other motors on Ebay. I look for 12V DC motors that turn at less than 10,000 RPM.
-There are debates about the benefits of flywheels. Some say that they confuse the decoder's Back EMF function. I like them... They are not absolutely necessary.
-The Mark Schutzer document is a very good source.
-Sound decoders usually come with a maximum of 1 to 1.5 amps stall capacity. Make sure your motor does not exceed that.
-The Digitrax decoders are excellent for the higher amp requirements. For your first install, I recommend them. You can try a more expensive option later when you get more experience. Sound decoders are more fragile than the non-sound ones.
Simon
I have a brass HO DM&IR Akane Yellowstone that I would like to update. I am new to model railroading (let alone brass) so the whole process is a little intimidating, but I'm muddling through. I did electronics work when I was in the military - I'm a little rusty but not completely lost in that realm, and I'm not scared of a soldering iron. (I'll probably build a home-brew keep-alive just for the experience of it.)
I've done a lot of digging around, and most of the advice about this kind of work is "install a NWSL can motor," which is only a little bit helpful, because figuring out what part number to get is quite an exercise. I found Mark Schutzer's website which has a nice tutorial on remotoring a cab-forward that is very similar in construction to my Yellowstone, and he very helpfully lists part numbers. Predictably, the motor he specifies is no longer available. (I also went through his clinic slides on brass locos. Good stuff there.)
I believe the motor that will work for me is the 2032D-9. However, it has two shafts, while the original open frame motor has one. I don't think that is a problem, partially because it would let me add a flywheel to the "back" of the motor, and still stay under the overall length of the original motor, but a sanity check on that would be appreciated. I also plan to put in u-joints, but getting the right ones seems pretty straightforward. (The candidate motor has a 2mm shaft, the loco shafts are all 2.4mm.)
Since the 2032D-9 has a stall of 1.75 amps, I think for DCC I need to go with a decoder that can handle a spike above that. I've found that many of Digitrax's decoders can max at 2 amps, so I'm looking at their stuff - and again, it gets to be an exercise. I have no idea what decoder might work, because the decoder selector they make available is only useful if you have one of the locos that is on their list, an "Akane Yellowstone" isn't one of the choices. So I really need help there. I don't think I need a whole lot of functions, the loco really only has two lights, and I'm not planning on installing a smoke generator or anything, though I'd rather have too many functions available than not enough (I am toying with the idea of a small servo to move the bell...). Next we come to sound decoders, and then I am completely overwhelmed and lost - on that note, I am intrigued by sound cams, but haven't found a good tutorial/guide on them.
I know I've prattled on for a long time (hopefully more information is better than less) and I appreciate anybody who has stuck with me this long. To sum up, I believe my questions are: Does the NWSL 2032D-9 sound like the right motor for me? Is there an alternate motor (from any source) I should look at? What DCC decoder(s) should I be taking a look at? What sound decoder is going to do justice to this beast of an articulated? Are there other considerations I should be taking into account?
As for my personal constraints... As I mentioned, I'm not afraid of soldering. I have access to a pretty full suite of tools if I need to make mounts or whatever, and any fabrication I can't do on my own... I probably know someone who can. Also, I'm comfortable with (limited) coding and scripting, so the software side of updating sound projects or whatever doesn't worry me. I don't have infinite money, but I would rather pay more up front to do it right than replace an "economy" part down the road - in my experience, "cheaper" gets expensive fast.