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Engine stalls at crossing powered by Frog Juicer

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  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 313 posts
Posted by trnj on Wednesday, December 2, 2020 12:23 PM

Thanks to all who provided suggestions about this issue.  My conclusion is that some CV setting related to BEMF has resulted in the decoder being extra sensitive to the circuitry of the Frog Juicer.  My other engines have no issues and this one only occasionally, always at less than 5 SMPH. The engine runs so well and the BEMF is good throughout the speed range.  So, like arthritus and taxes, I will just learn to live with it for now since the BEMF settings on Loksound decoders can get pretty compicated.  In my experience, the automatic calibration feature only gives you a reasonably good result.  

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 297 posts
Posted by markie97 on Tuesday, December 1, 2020 1:17 PM

dehusman

Do you have anything else connected to the track or in the circuit, such as a circuit breaker for the block?

Often "frog juicer" problems are actually that the circuit breakers are set to "fast' and should be set to slow or at least a slower speed.

 

I am thinking along similar lines where I had a breaker that would occasionally trip before the reverse loop reverser. Had to slow it slightly. By the way make sure your breakers are not set to be programmed (mine use a jumper). Any decoderprogramming that may have been done may have affeted the breaker CV's.

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Omaha, NE
  • 10,621 posts
Posted by dehusman on Saturday, November 28, 2020 12:12 PM

Do you have anything else connected to the track or in the circuit, such as a circuit breaker for the block?

Often "frog juicer" problems are actually that the circuit breakers are set to "fast' and should be set to slow or at least a slower speed.

Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:40 AM

peahrens

Are both trucks well connected to the decoder?  Maybe relying on just one truck that is connected, the other having a wiring gap.  Check the continuity truck to truck?

 

I was thinking along these lines with the dirty wheel suggestion. I had a performance issue that was corrected by cleaning where the brush contacts the axel for power p/u. 

Is it possible the wheel is lifting off the rail at some point? 

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 313 posts
Posted by trnj on Saturday, November 28, 2020 11:31 AM

Me too!  Ha!

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 2,616 posts
Posted by peahrens on Saturday, November 28, 2020 6:29 AM

Are both trucks well connected to the decoder?  Maybe relying on just one truck that is connected, the other having a wiring gap.  Check the continuity truck to truck?

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, November 28, 2020 5:29 AM

Looking forward to the solution to this problem.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 313 posts
Posted by trnj on Saturday, November 28, 2020 4:22 AM

Engine's wheels are clean as is track ("Gleam" method!) and engine does not stall anywhere else on layout, even at 1 SMPH.  Looking now at BEMF settings recently adjusted.  Once Frog Juicer switches for a path through the crossing, there is no stalling, indicating that the problem occurs only when the loco initially enters crossing and precisely when polarity is switched.  No problem again until the engine uses the other leg of the crossing.  Plan to turn BEMF off today on engine to test my latest theory!

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, November 27, 2020 2:43 PM

Can you verify that this is a stall and not a momentary short?  Put another engine a short distance away on the same track, stopped but with the headlight on.  If that headlight flashes briefly, that's a short.

Otherwise, look for loose wires or a poor connection.

Can you swap juicers with another frog to see if the problem moves?

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: 4610 Metre's North of the Fortyninth on the left coast of Canada
  • 9,352 posts
Posted by BATMAN on Friday, November 27, 2020 12:59 PM

I have quite a few frog juicers used with Walthers turnouts. I only ever have an issue with one turnout for some reason. I would start by cleaning the wheels and track thoroughly and check to see if the point rails are getting good contact.

If it is that one loco, my bet is dirty wheels.

Brent

"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: South Carolina
  • 313 posts
Engine stalls at crossing powered by Frog Juicer
Posted by trnj on Friday, November 27, 2020 12:42 PM

I have Frog Juicers for each of my turnouts and for my single crossing.  They have worked perfectly for quite a while but now one of my ngines stalls most of the time traversing the crossing.  Only this engine does this and it runs perfectly otherwise.  It is an Atlas H O Alco HH600 with the QSI decoder replaced with a Loksound 5.0 micro and sugar cube speaker.  Could the problem possibly be related to the wheelbase?  My little 44 tonner (also with Loksound 5.0 micro) has no issues at this crossing, even at 1 SMPH!  Nor do my other engines, all with longer wheelbase than the HH600.  I notice the engine stalls exactly when the Juicer "shorts" and changes polarity.  My RampMeter shows no current surge when this occurs.  A real puzzle.  Suggestions?

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