It's section 20 of the manual, the section right after section 19, which talks about Steal. At least the current version on the Digitrax site:
https://www.digitrax.com/media/apps/products/command-stations-boosters/dcs51/documents/Zephyr_Xtra_rev.2_x743wQ9.pdf
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rrinker If the DCS51 is controlling address 4, and you plug in the UT3 set on address 3 - everything will work fine. If you are not using the built in throttle on the DCS, what you should do when done running a loco, select Loco, then Exit. Then NO loco is selected on the DCS51. --Randy
If the DCS51 is controlling address 4, and you plug in the UT3 set on address 3 - everything will work fine. If you are not using the built in throttle on the DCS, what you should do when done running a loco, select Loco, then Exit. Then NO loco is selected on the DCS51.
And you wonder why there are still those who don't like DCC. Without a helpfull forum member I would have thought the throtle was garbage and maybe given up on DCC because walk around is important to me. An other thing I just thought of, if I plug in a UT4 with adress 03 with out doing the steal thing, if main station is at 04, will it just start working?
The 2.4GHz vs 916MHz isn't a Digitrax thing, as we keep getting pressed to higher frequencies, the range goes down, the higher the frequency, the easier it is blocked by walls and big bags of water (aka people). Remember the first cordless phones (not cell phones - landline phones witht he cordless handsets)? The ran somewhere around 433 MHz, had a huge antenna you had to pull out to get maximum range - but what a range - with the help of an external full wave antenna flung over his dorm, my friend and I got his to work on the diagonally opposite side of campus. Then they went to 900MHz and had the little 'rubber duckey' antennas, then to 2.4Ghz and fianlly 5.8GHz with no antenna visible. ANd range kept goign down. Same with WiFi, in general, the 5.8GHz bands have much less range than the 2.4GHz bands.
Digitrax could have done the Duplex on 916MHz, but that band is not legal for personal use in Europe, while 2.4GHz, at least some range of the available channels, is a more worldwide standard. You still can't legally use NCE radio in Europe, they are still on the 916MHz band. Yeah, they have better coverage with a single radio base because of it, but it's nothing to do with system design and everything to do with RF and electromagnetics.
As for 'stealing' - another case where native usage (AJ is a Kiwi like TF) may have caused a conflict in US English. It's really not the right word - hence the newer DCS240 supporting what they call "steal/zap" which does what they sort of thought the "steal" should do. Steal does not steal away control in the sense of typical use of the word - it SHARES it. Which is why there is a problem if the same loco is on 2 throttles, which is is after a steal. Always. It's less of a problem when both are encoder throttles, as the loco will simply continue using the most recent command given from whichever throttle gave it. But with potentiometer throttles like the UT4 and the DCS50 series base unit, as each throttle reports in, the speed changes to whatever is set on that throttle, so you get the symptoms of the loco moving, then stopping, then moving again - or switching between two speeds even though you haven't touched the knob. Steal/Zap, when it works, takes over control AND removes it from the old throttle.
Originally, the "steal" concept was designed to allow a rookie to learn to run the train while being watched by an experienced operator - like driver's ed cars with two brake pedals. Both users would have the same address dialed in, and if the trainee was about to run a switch or hit another train, the experienced op could stop it using their throttle. But again, this joint control only works if both users have an encoder throttle like the DT100/DT300/DT40x/DT500/DT602.
gmpullman I didn't choose Digitrax but Digitrax chose me. Back in 2005 a friend had to move and he offered his Super Empire Builder to me for a very reasonable cost. I had been contemplating getting into DCC back then and that was the tipping point. Fast-forward fifteen years and I am still using much of the same equipment. I've upgraded to wireless throttles, THEN upgraded again to Duplex wireless (Digitrax reworked the throttles for about $30 ea). I recently picked up a DCS 240 which adds a few features and gives me direct USB and higher signal on the programming track which eliminated the PR-3 and a Soundtraxx PTB1000. I've added and/or swapped around UP5s, UR 91 and 92s and recently added a UR93 in addition to one of the new, curvy throttles. Digitrax_DT602D by Edmund, on Flickr Sometimes I use the JMRI wireless throttle and Engine Driver app to allow me to use a tablet as a throttle if I'd like. No, it isn't what I'd use for an every-day throttle BUT the option is there if I want it. There ARE some neat features to using a tablet as a throttle. I don't have a cell phone so that option is out. I make up all my Loconet cables and I've never had any kind of network fault. Sometimes I wonder if I should go around and re-plug some of the RJ11 connections just to make sure they're still good but, then, why? One frustrating scenario I had was when I switched to Duplex and the 2.4 GHz frequency was anemic compared to the former simplex 916.5 MHz range. I've heard all the pros and cons of the other DCC systems and I'm sure they're very capable. Again, in my case, the Digitrax setup was both timely and economical. I have no regrets and, as I recall, I've never had a piece of Digitrax hardware fail. Regards, Ed
I didn't choose Digitrax but Digitrax chose me.
Back in 2005 a friend had to move and he offered his Super Empire Builder to me for a very reasonable cost. I had been contemplating getting into DCC back then and that was the tipping point.
Fast-forward fifteen years and I am still using much of the same equipment. I've upgraded to wireless throttles, THEN upgraded again to Duplex wireless (Digitrax reworked the throttles for about $30 ea).
I recently picked up a DCS 240 which adds a few features and gives me direct USB and higher signal on the programming track which eliminated the PR-3 and a Soundtraxx PTB1000.
I've added and/or swapped around UP5s, UR 91 and 92s and recently added a UR93 in addition to one of the new, curvy throttles.
Digitrax_DT602D by Edmund, on Flickr
Sometimes I use the JMRI wireless throttle and Engine Driver app to allow me to use a tablet as a throttle if I'd like. No, it isn't what I'd use for an every-day throttle BUT the option is there if I want it. There ARE some neat features to using a tablet as a throttle. I don't have a cell phone so that option is out.
I make up all my Loconet cables and I've never had any kind of network fault. Sometimes I wonder if I should go around and re-plug some of the RJ11 connections just to make sure they're still good but, then, why?
One frustrating scenario I had was when I switched to Duplex and the 2.4 GHz frequency was anemic compared to the former simplex 916.5 MHz range.
I've heard all the pros and cons of the other DCC systems and I'm sure they're very capable. Again, in my case, the Digitrax setup was both timely and economical. I have no regrets and, as I recall, I've never had a piece of Digitrax hardware fail.
Regards, Ed
UpNorth " Not everything is well documented " Not sure I understand. The UT4 clearly states : Stealing Stealing is defined as acquiring control of a loco address that is being used by someone else on another throttle. " To ‘Steal’ a loco: 1 Unplug the UT4 from the LocoNet port 2 Dial up the address of the loco you want to steal 3 Press and hold the ‘STEAL’ key while plugging the throttle into the LocoNet jack. Note: To steal or dispatch another loco, you must unplug the UT4 and repeat the above sequence " Never encountered any issue following the guide. Marc
" Not everything is well documented "
Not sure I understand. The UT4 clearly states :
Stealing
Stealing is defined as acquiring control of a loco address that is being used by someone else on another throttle.
" To ‘Steal’ a loco:
1 Unplug the UT4 from the LocoNet port
2 Dial up the address of the loco you want to steal
3 Press and hold the ‘STEAL’ key while plugging the throttle into the LocoNet jack.
Note: To steal or dispatch another loco, you must unplug the UT4 and repeat the above sequence "
Never encountered any issue following the guide.
Marc
UT4 is what I have and am getting another one. Not everything is well documented. When I first got my UT4 I set it steal 03 and it conflicted with the base which is what I was running. Changed the base to any other number and it was fine.
Yes, that is exactly how you wire it. Daisy chain from one panel to the next. DO NOT run another cable back to the second port on the DCS51 - that would be bad. The Loconet has to be a line, not a loop. Probably thinking about it that would seem like a silly idea - but the fact that they have to warn you in the manual about doing that means someone tried it.
The UP5 comes in 2 pieces, the board and the front panel. The front side of the UP5 is the one with the little LED between the two jacks. The side OPPOSITE the silver screws.
Leaving the throttles plugged in is fine. If you have more than 3 or 4 though, you will probably want to provide additional power to the UP5, since the thin telephone wire of the Loconet cable can only supply so much without voltage drop. There are two ways to do this. The silver screws can be used to attach wires to the track bus - this is OK, but a) if you ever install block detection, it will cause the block to always show occupied and b) the extra power is only available when track power is turned on. The second method is to use a power supply such as the PS14 and plug it in to the round jack on the side of the UP5. One PS14 can supply power to a number of UP5s, the number really depends on how many throttles will be plugged in. The UP5 manual shows one way of linking multiple UP5s to a single PS14, however I and many other are not a fan of that method as it keeps the negative side in the relatively thin Loconet cable. For a small layout - I think it will be fine, there are actually TWO of the wires in the Loconet cable that are the negative side, so it's not one strand of phone wire, it's 2. For say three UP5s and one power supply, the way shown in the manual should be just fine. For a larger layout, with more UPs, I would suggest running a 2 wire bus (doesn't have to be anywhere near the track bus - #18 is more than enough, #20 would work fine) and at each UP5, tap off and attach a mating plug. It's a 2.1mm coax plug.
On may last layout, I had a total of 3 throttles, a DT400, a DT402, and then an old DT100 which should have a lower current draw than the newer ones. I had no problems plugging all 3 in at the same time, with no extra power to the UP5s. If you have one or more UT4 throttles, those don't even have an LCD display and are even lower current than the ones with displays, so 2 or 3 should not be any issue, no extra power should be required.
Yes, you can leave your throttles plugged into their receptacles on your DCC node device. If they have a battery capability, it should not be a problem.
It sounds to me like you have the wiring figured out. The instructions Digitrax supplies, contrary to popular 'assessment', are very straightforward and comprehensive.
Just put in order for two up5's and a couple of cables and an extra thottle (figured I would wait till layout finished (major things done) before I upgraded to wireless etc.). Just want to make sure I got this straight. I run cable from either port on the DCS51 to a up5 and run another cable from that to the other up5. Another question is can I just leave the throttles pluged in at all times.