Rick just checking to see if you got them yet and if so do you think they will work for you
I know I said and hour for them but you know how time flies when you're haveing fun
And my 12 volt 1.2 amp power supply I was looking in my cabinet of stuff and found two 12v 3amp supplies I think I will use one of those
Mike
Ken replied today via email. There is a discount on orders of 50 or more. Given the length (85 feet) of the layout, he recommended two of the 12vdc 2 A regulated PS from Parts Express and splitting the layout into two sections. I placed an order for four assembled and one kit.
Thanks Randy! Very helpful! I'll try to provide some updates and I'm sure I'll have more questions for you and Mel and others!
Rick - electrolytic capacitors usually have a stripe indicating the - side. Diodes usually have a band around the cathode, which is the - side. The MOSFETs have a metal tab on the back, so having the orientation right, the polarity will be correct.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Keep us updated on your progress, I like your decision making process.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Mel,
Thanks for reporting the correct latching relay for a 12 volt supply! I think your circuit and updated relay will be an excellent option for more electronics experienced model railroaders. I appreciate your assistance but Ken's product gets the nod from me because it is one-stop shopping for all the kit parts, complete written directions, and available tech support. Exactly the type of marketing and packaging that will seal the deal for me!
Take care!
Mike, thanks for your post! Fascinating that the 12V 1.2A wall wart is adequate for operating a layout with 27 751D's. Cool! The Parts Express PS that I linked earlier should also work with 2A max current, constant 12vdc.
Soldered 10 751's in an hour! Wow, that is fast! I've never done this type of soldering but plan to give it a try. I'll obviously be much slower! :-)
I agree Ken does give great instructions and he is very willing to assist and explain things for a novice like me! I noticed that instructions say that the 3 capacitors, 2 MOSFETs and 1 diode are polarity sensitive. How is polarity indicated on these parts? Probably obvious when I have them on hand, just curious! Thanks again!
Yes. The relays I use are 5 volt latching dual coil and will work with any DC voltage from 5 volts up with the proper resistor.The reason for 5 volt relays is for compatibility with Arduinos, and I found them readily available on eBay for a good price. Any latching relay would work. Paralleling the Atlas switch dual coil machine with a dual coil latching relay will work great.
The DS2E-ML-5VDC relays are available in 12 volt by changing the 5VDC to 12VDC then no resistor needed.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=12V+latching+relay&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=15
Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Mel, in the thread below, you discussed your technique for your turnout indication circuit. Would your circuit work if the power supply was 12 vdc from a Circuitron snapper?
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/269754.aspx
Mel, my friend, no problem! I checked out your modified Atlas switch machine using Peco parts. Looks good, nice mod! Unfortunately, the parts (Peco PL-10) are very expensive on ebay at $9 to $12 each plus shipping. Couldn't find any offers of multiple Pl-10's. Take care!
Randy, thank you for the thorough reply! I will confirm with Ken on the power supply. I have not yet talked with Ken about the total order. My thought is to buy 5 initially (4 assembled, 1 kit) and do a test of concept on a narrow module with a crossover and two turnouts. This enables a test of soldering my own 751D and the module allows testing my planned atlas installation method from above.
Ken sells LED's and a wiring harness (8 pin header with 8 one foot long wires) for ease of installation and one-stop shopping. Definitely will purchase those!
Great suggestions on the panel and wiring! Based on your suggestion, I likely will use 5-way Wago connectors to distribute power to the 751d's. The Wagos make strong quick connections, can handle 12 to 24 AWG wires, and are easily removed for use on the final layout. Wago's can be ganged if I have more than four turnouts on the panel. Assuming I have 7 panels, each power leg would only have 7 connections for 30 turnouts.
When I started my current (and last) layout I was 52 and the majority of my Atlas #65s are still working after 31 years so go for it. Sorry if I gave you any grief. I just didn’t want you to go through what I’m going through. The Atlas #65 isn’t on my “buy it” list today but nothing lasts forever so maybe they’re not so bad after all.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
3 would be good - 10 machines per. Those power supplies are cheap enough. If it ends up being more than you need, you can always use one of them to power structure lights.
Have you talked to Ken about supplying a quantity of assembled units? Likely he is a one man band and I suspect it will take him a while to build 30. It's a pretty simple circuit, and I like the way he supplies one built to replicate - so if you make the others look exactly like the built one, it will work.
I did notice that there is no sort of terminal strip, you just solder thee wires to the board. So I doubt much heavier than what he recommends will work for any of them - however, for a short distance, within the panel, it's fine to use the thinner wire for the power wires. Group all the ones in a panel together, prefereably in some sort of terminal strip, and then run something like #18 between the power supply and each panel.
I wonder if he made the spacing of the connection points to fit a standard screw terminal unit - you might want to ask that, if he did, he can probably give you a aprt number for that. You'd have to solder that on even if buying the built up units, but it would make connecting the wires for power, switch machine, and LEDs easier.
Randy, I have developed some soldering skills using the soldering station you recommended! Thanks! :-) However, I'm considering the purchase of fully assembled 751D's, more expensive but worth it to me in time and potentially avoided problems. The layout would be built stages. So, my goto guy, are you thinking two or three of the Parts Express power supplies for thirty Atlas switch machines? I've tried reading articles on arduino controls but they just don't click well for me. I need to recognize my limitations and go with what I'm comfortable doing, Ken's 751d + LEDs would be my gold standard and microtoggles + circuitron snapper is the acceptable solution.
Mel, I appreciate your always excellent assistance, support, and friendship! I am 66 so with a 25-year failure point, I would be 91. With existing heart issues and Alzheimers on both sides of ancestors, 25 years is probably a long enough time frame! I am working on a way to mount the atlas from above. Will take pictures when I have time to try it out. I retire in 5 months with lots of things to wrap up so may be a month or two down the road...
Best,
Rick
The problem I have with the #65 is the flat arm in the switch machine, it becomes puny over time (25 years) and flexes. The amount of twist flex in the arm out of the switch machine is so much that it can’t fully move the round rod to the turnout. It twists enough that the position lock can’t keep the points against the rails.My #65s are also ¾” below the turnout, ½” plywood and ¼” cork roadbed. They started failing at about 20 years and now at 30 years old I have had to replace 7 out of 21.If old age failure (25 years) doesn’t bother you no problems. At 83 years old Changing an under layout switch machine is not doable. I installed my turnouts to be removed easily from the top and simply drill a large enough hole to drop the Mel kitbashed turnout in and go.I have a grandson remove the old switch machines. My arthritis has got the better of me but when the pain gets better I have another bad #65 to replace. Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Rick - that fancy power supply with the display is overkill. The other one would be fine, and since the highest setting is 12V, you wouldn't have to worry about frying something if the selection accidently got changed.
I know you have them already, but I agree with Mel on using something other than the Atlas machines. I've using all servos on my new layout, used them on my last layout, too. Since quantities of Ken's circuit come as kits, with one built as an example, I presume you are capable of some basic electronic assembly.
Mel - in that mounting scheme, are you just gluing the servo to the bottom? You do know you don't have to stack that much styrene tubing, just lop the upper ear off the horn. I'm still trying to decide how to mount mine - I might just end up buyign a 3D printer and print my own. Friend of mine just Gorilla Glued his to the bottom of his plywood - I think I'd rather still have somethign that screws on. I used the Tam Valley mounts (their old plastic ones, not the new wood ones) on my old layout, but I only had a dozen turnouts on the whole thing. I've got more than that just in the yard on the new one. If I don't 3D print, I need something I can mass produce. Maybe just a pair of hoolow beams, screw the servo to them, and then run a wood screw with a washer up through each one to screw to the layout.
Thanks for the link Mel! Interesting approach.
I've been too busy to try it yet but I want to mount the switch 3/4 inch below the turnout. The switch mounted from above so could be easily removed if needed. The throw arm is significantly stronger at 3/4 inch than at the maximum of 1 inch above the throw. We'll see when I test it. I have the switch machines on hand so want to use if I can make them reliable.
As a long time user of the Atlas #65 under layout switch machine I wouldn’t recommend using them. Over time the throw arm becomes week and they don’t cut the mustard. Driving them with a powerful CD power supply helps. When they start to fail to hold the rail points I’ve been replacing them with Peco PL-10s which requires a mod to the Atlas turnouts. I add a Peco type spring to hold the points firmly to the fixed rails.https://melvineperry.blogspot.com/2015/01/january-10-2015-turnout-modification.htmlI haven’t had any problems with my Mel kitbashed turnouts. They work better than a new Atlas #65.I’m currently experimenting with SG90 servos. I think the future switch machines will be servo operated. A do it yourself servo switch machine costs under $3.A single $15 Arduino MEGA will control 25 Servos.Mel My Model Railroad http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/ Bakersfield, California I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
I found a nice video on making small control panels. He used 1.5 amp walwart and looks very nice. The link to the 8 minute video link is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTgsdtbt1M&list=UUjRkUtHQ774mTg1vrQ6uA5A
Hmm, wouldn't cost much to give this idea a try! OOPS, CAUGHT the problem, needs a momentary dpdt but that would not keep the led's on.
Any limitations on number of turnouts or length of run with the circuitron snapper? Could be significantly cheaper than Ken's excellent switch controls.
Thanks for sharing John, great approach!
This is the only picture I have. I wired the lighting for some buildings with this set. Other sets are track wires or switch machine wires.
I bought the terminal strips online for just a couple of dollars, and the spades are very cheap at a hardware store.
The poster known as Lion gave me the idea of doing all wiring right behind the fascia.
If I ever need to make new connections or disconnect anything, I unscrew this section of fascia, and the terminal strips are right there. Be sure to label the wires. No more crawling under the table -- I'm too old.
I got the terminal strip idea from MR's "Salt Lake Route":
https://mrr.trains.com/tags?tag=salt+lake+route
York1 John
York1 IDRick I have bad knees want to minimize time under the layout. A suggestion given to me for which I am thankful was to run all wires -- track connectors, switch machines, etc. -- to connections right behind the fascia. Wires can be dropped through holes in the table, and pulled over to the fascia. It really minimized time under the table. Any work on wiring can be done sitting in a chair rather than crawling around.
IDRick
I have bad knees want to minimize time under the layout.
A suggestion given to me for which I am thankful was to run all wires -- track connectors, switch machines, etc. -- to connections right behind the fascia.
Wires can be dropped through holes in the table, and pulled over to the fascia. It really minimized time under the table. Any work on wiring can be done sitting in a chair rather than crawling around.
Thanks Randy! You always give great advice and appreciate your time and talents!
Would a couple of these work? Regulated, operator can set the vdc at 12v, reasonably priced.
https://www.parts-express.com/3-12v-2a-regulated-6-way-dc-power-supply--120-536
Or is something like this a better option:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tekpower-TP1502D-Linear-Power-Supply-15V-2A-with-Digital-Display/282421762846?epid=26009467594&hash=item41c1a61b1e:g:qoUAAOSw3utY5BFr
I like Ken's product but it may be cheaper to just purchase a Circuitron snapper or two and figure out another method of controlling the LED's. The layout will be narrow at 12 to 18 inches wide and mostly lone wolf operated. Turnout indication is a preference at the moment but necessarily a got to have.
IDRickI have bad knees want to minimize time under the layout.
By an "old school" power supply, he means one that is a transfoemr, rectifier, adn filter capacitor. NOT a switching power supply. The problem is, they are getting harder to find. The reason he makes this recommendation is that when these all power up, there's going to be considerable inrush current to charge up the capacitors. An old heavy iron transformer can handle a momentary overlaod liek that iwth no problem. A modern switching supply, especially a small wall wart type, will not. The sealed wall warts often have a section of fuse wire inside to shut them off if too much current is drawn, to make them safe. It's not fixable, so if it blows, time for a new power supply.
With 30 of them, I would suggest multiple power supplies, 2A is not going to be happy when all 30 power on and try to charge up. Yopu also get this same inrush after switching one of the turnouts, but that will only be one unit at a time (unless multiple people are running trains).
There's a bit of a dilemma here. Most any new power supply you get that says 12V regulated will be a switcher. An unregulated one might well be an actual transformer - but you need to watch the actual output voltage. An unregulated 12V power suppyl can put out significantly more than 12V as low loads (and once past the inrush of powering up, unless you are activley changing turnout positions, this circuit is going to be a very light load, even 30 of them). Ken seems to only use 16V capacitors, which is fine if the input is no more than 12V, that's plenty of head room, but a power supply rated at 12V that puts out 16V at light load is going to potentially cause problems. So finding the right power supply is going to take a little hunting.
Using multiple power supplies will avoid having to run 85 feet of power wire to these things. #18 wire should be fine if you do this.
LED color is a personal preference. I like two different colors, one for the normal route and one for the diverging route. Since this circuit only lights up the selected route, maybe having both LEDs the same makes sense. All up to you. Just be consistent, so when visitors come over to run trains, they aren't confused why the layout works one way over here, but over there it works differently.
SImplest thing for control panels is some harboard of the approriate thickness. Extend effectively a small shelf out from the layout, the connect the panel using some small lightweight hinges so it can flip up and an agle (top leaning back towards the layout) for use, and then flip down so you can access the back and whatever you put inside without crawling under the layout. For a fancier panel, you can use thin acrylic/plexiglas pieces and print a nice color schematic to sandwich between the two sheets to hold the toggles and LEDs.
I have 30 atlas under-table switch machines and plan to use them in a future layout when I retire (in 5 months, yay!). Ken Stapleton's 751D turnout controls appear to be an excellent addition since each one has a built-in CDU and it is simple to add turnout indication using LED's on a control panel. The layout will be in a 24' x 12' room, around the walls, and with a center peninsula. The total linear run is 85 feet. I plan to use walk around DCC control and have 7 to 10 small control panels.
My questions:
Power supply. Ken recommends using a linear 12Vdc 2A power supply. He further clarifies to use a conventional supply built with real iron and copper transformer (old school) and not the newfangled SMPS types. I can find PS's if I search for linear 12Vdc 2A PS. How do I know if it is an old school PS? Can anyone give me a PS recommendation?
Wiring. Ken recommends using a 4-conductor 24 AWG telephone cable for wiring between the switch machine and the 751D switch control. However, he does not specify wiring from power supply around layout and the drops to each 751d. What size wire would you recommend for power supply (85 ft total run) and the drops?
LED color. The 751d is set up to control two LED's. Is there any advantage for using the same color for both LED's versus say red and green? Two colors makes great sense for crossovers but not sure if valuable for all turnouts. Anyone want to comment on their experiences with LED lights?
Control panel design. Each control panel will be very simple with maybe 3 to 5 turnouts. The layout will be a wood grid with 1"x 4" stock. The 751d work best 1/8 inch thick stock. I have bad knees want to minimize time under the layout. Does anyone have some suggestions on how to make a small control panel that tips out for easy access during construction? My aisles will be narrow, about 3 feet so want to avoid have much if any protrusion into the aisle.
Thank you for any assistance you can provide!