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Who owns the Consist? - NCE ProCab or JMRI Decoder Pro

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  • Member since
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  • From: Cresskill, NJ USA
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Who owns the Consist? - NCE ProCab or JMRI Decoder Pro
Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, April 12, 2018 6:16 AM

Hi all,

So I made my first Consist the other day with DecoderPro. Three locos (Lead Bachmann Sound Value RS3 - Mid Atlas TCS WOW RS3 - End TCS WOW RS1).

I used 100 as the Consist Address and selected each loco from my roster and programmed them into Consist 100 on the Consist tab. Works fine when I select loco 100 from the NCE throttle.

NCE has an option on the throttle to list all consists by pressing the program/escape button.  This Consist did not show. Says “No Consist Found”.

So I tried programming the consist in using the NCE throttle and when I finished it shows “CON” and the lead loco address instead of “LOC” which is what it is supposed to do as I understand it. Now the consist shows on the throttle when I list consists. I still need to SEL-LOC 100 for it to work.

Wht did I actually do? Do I have TWO separate consist addresses assigned to these three locomotives?

When I read the decoder, Decoder pro Consist tab and CV19 show 100 as the address.

Do I need to change anything?

Gary

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, April 12, 2018 7:02 AM

As far as I know, DecoderPro only sets CV19. It doesn't do all the other stuff NCE does behind the scenes when you create a consist using the throttle. JMRI doesn't 'own' the consist, the decoders do. When you create a consist using the cab, it sets CV19 to match the consist number being used, but it ALSO keeps track of the actual address of the lead and trailing locos 

 What I think you've done is create a consist 100 that contains loco 100, which is actually short address 100, the CV19 consist address of those locos. JMRI consisting doesn't do it the NCE way because JMRI works with many different systems.

                                        --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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  • From: Northern Virginia
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 12, 2018 7:08 AM

What about the fairly new ESU Cab Control system?  Has anyhone done consisting in it?  With it's flexible touch screen interface using the Android OS, my guess is consisting should be able to be easier than most other DCC systems.  I'm thinking of switching away from my Digitrax Chief system.  Anyone with hands on experience with the ESU Cab Control system?

Here are some features listed by someone who was evaluating it for himself:

- small size
- 7 amp power source
- ICU (command station) firmware can be upgraded from internet, new features added
- capable of handling 32 throttles
- Mobile Control II (throttle) connects to command station using standard wi-fi (or home network if desired)
- MCII runs Android operating system, fully configurable
- large knob on MCII works either right- or left-handed
- one MCII can run multiple trains
- easy set-up of advanced consisting
- visitors can use their smartphone with the EngineDriver app
- supports RailComm+ (ESU decoder-equipped locos automatically set up on MCII)
- touchscreen on MCII works just like your smartphone
- swipe left/right to change locos (trains)
- swipe up/down to access loco info and extended functions
- programming on main (POM) with read back
- MCII has a rechargeable Li-Po battery (replaceable)

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

  • Member since
    January, 2014
  • From: Cresskill, NJ USA
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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, April 12, 2018 10:35 AM

rrinker

As far as I know, DecoderPro only sets CV19. It doesn't do all the other stuff NCE does behind the scenes when you create a consist using the throttle. JMRI doesn't 'own' the consist, the decoders do. When you create a consist using the cab, it sets CV19 to match the consist number being used, but it ALSO keeps track of the actual address of the lead and trailing locos 

 What I think you've done is create a consist 100 that contains loco 100, which is actually short address 100, the CV19 consist address of those locos. JMRI consisting doesn't do it the NCE way because JMRI works with many different systems.

                                        --Randy

 

 

Thanks Randy, so it sounds to me the best way to creat the consists is through the NCE throttle.

Is there a way to choose if functions (horn, bell, brakes, etc.) are off or on for each loco while it is in the consist?

In other words if I want the front loco to have the front headlight on when traveling forewrd and the rear loco to have it on in reverse and the middle loco not to have lights on?

I see in DecoderPro you can select these individually. 

Gary

  • Member since
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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, April 12, 2018 11:54 AM

 Yes, CVs 21 and 22 control what functions are on and off in a consist. If you create the consist with NCE, it automaticaly only sounds the horn and bell on the lead loco by taking advantage of the fact that when CV19 is set to some value, it only affects motor control. You can still address the loco's actual address and operate functions, but the throttle and direction have no effect. I'm sure that if you used a DCC packet analyzer to see what was going out ont he rails, you'd see speed and direction packets being sent to the consist address, but when you hit the horn button you'd see the packet addressed to the lead loco's actual address.

                                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February, 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:01 PM

 As for the ESU CabControl, one thing I do not like is that it does not have POM. That's still teh best way to adjust things like sound levels, instead of back and forth between the program track and the main. ANd their throttle knobs, like in the ECoS system, and probably the most overengineered solution to a problem I have seen (but they're German, I drive German cars). A MOTORIZED potentiometer - so the knob can match the existing speed when you switch between running trains. I detest limited travel potentiometer controls so much, the first thing I did after buying my Zephyr was get a DT400. The touch screen doesn't bother me too much since there IS a physical knob for the throttle. 

 It all fits - I really see no reason to change from my Digitrax system, but I'm no real fan of their decoders. I love ESU's decoders, but their systems don't intrigue me. Much of that fancy self-detect stuff requires the decoder int he loco to be an ESU decoder, if you have many other, they won't do that, even if they are Lenz and support Railcom. Decoders that don't support Railcom are completely out as far as the automatic detection and loading go.

                              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    June, 2007
  • From: Northern Virginia
  • 5,576 posts
Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 12, 2018 12:49 PM

Thanks for the Comments on ESU Command Control system.  One thing I do know is I continue to struggle with the command sequences necessary to get things done with Digitrax, thats just me and it makes sense for me to switch to something that works better for me.  I haven't decided on what that something is and have months to think about it.

The self detect stuff seems very nice, but of the engines I own, very few, if any, can take advantage of Railcom.  That, in and of itself, is not a deal breaker for me; it will be a perk for any engines that do have it equipped going forward.

I don't know if a drag and drop consisting is in the interface now, but I certainly can see it would be a possibility and that seems like a user friendly thing, getting back to the topic here.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

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    December, 2001
  • 1,857 posts
Posted by Stevert on Thursday, April 12, 2018 4:17 PM

I'm not sure why you'd think consisting on Digitrax is difficult:

1) Select the lead loco on the right-hand throttle

2) Select the next loco on the left-hand throttle and make sure it's going the right direction

3) Press MU

4) Press Y

5) Repeat steps 2 through 4 for additional locos

Run the consist with the right-hand throttle

  • Member since
    June, 2007
  • From: Northern Virginia
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Posted by riogrande5761 on Thursday, April 12, 2018 5:14 PM

Stevert

I'm not sure why you'd think consisting on Digitrax is difficult:

1) Select the lead loco on the right-hand throttle

2) Select the next loco on the left-hand throttle and make sure it's going the right direction

3) Press MU

4) Press Y

5) Repeat steps 2 through 4 for additional locos

Run the consist with the right-hand throttle 

I suppose any thing with steps to it seems easy if you've got it memorized.  For some reason I have a mental block against it.  Sorry but at my age I know what has worked for me and what hasn't.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road

  • Member since
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  • From: Cresskill, NJ USA
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Posted by gdelmoro on Thursday, April 12, 2018 5:46 PM

rrinker

 Yes, CVs 21 and 22 control what functions are on and off in a consist. If you create the consist with NCE, it automaticaly only sounds the horn and bell on the lead loco by taking advantage of the fact that when CV19 is set to some value, it only affects motor control. You can still address the loco's actual address and operate functions, but the throttle and direction have no effect. I'm sure that if you used a DCC packet analyzer to see what was going out ont he rails, you'd see speed and direction packets being sent to the consist address, but when you hit the horn button you'd see the packet addressed to the lead loco's actual address.

                                 --Randy

Ok so if I understand, if I want to sound the horn on the end loco I can select it’s address and then when I press Horn that loco will sound.

I think that is what was happening. The confusion regarding functions occurred when I looked at the DecoderPro Consist tab. It appeared that each loco in the tab could be set to respond to either the consist or loco address depending on what was selected.

Thank you

Gary

  • Member since
    February, 2008
  • 6,091 posts
Posted by maxman on Friday, April 13, 2018 4:02 PM

gdelmoro
Ok so if I understand, if I want to sound the horn on the end loco I can select it’s address and then when I press Horn that loco will sound.

If decoderpro is assigning only consist numbers between 1 and 127, then it would be my opinion that you are better off using the PowerPro to do the consisting.  Then there is no need to remember the consist number if you want the consist to do something.

For example, let's assume that the two locos are 1000 (in the lead) and 2000.  And let's assume that DecoderPro assigns them consist number 100.  When you go to run the train you dial up 100 and the train will run.  I think if you want the horn you now have to dial up 1000, blow the horn, and then redial the 100.  And when you go back to the basement two weeks from now are you going to remember that the consist is 100?

On the other hand, if you use the command station to consist and it happens to assign the same 100 number to the consist, the command station "knows" that 1000 and 2000 are in consist 100 and the train will run if you select 100, 1000, or 2000.  In addition if you select 1000 or 2000 and push the horn button, the horn will sound and there is no dialing back and forth between numbers.  And further, when you go back to the basement in two weeks there is no need to search for the piece of paper where you wrote down the nember 100; you only need to look at the side of the loco cab for that number.

  • Member since
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  • From: Cresskill, NJ USA
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Posted by gdelmoro on Saturday, April 14, 2018 6:49 AM

maxman

 

 
gdelmoro
Ok so if I understand, if I want to sound the horn on the end loco I can select it’s address and then when I press Horn that loco will sound.

 

If decoderpro is assigning only consist numbers between 1 and 127, then it would be my opinion that you are better off using the PowerPro to do the consisting.  Then there is no need to remember the consist number if you want the consist to do something.

For example, let's assume that the two locos are 1000 (in the lead) and 2000.  And let's assume that DecoderPro assigns them consist number 100.  When you go to run the train you dial up 100 and the train will run.  I think if you want the horn you now have to dial up 1000, blow the horn, and then redial the 100.  And when you go back to the basement two weeks from now are you going to remember that the consist is 100?

On the other hand, if you use the command station to consist and it happens to assign the same 100 number to the consist, the command station "knows" that 1000 and 2000 are in consist 100 and the train will run if you select 100, 1000, or 2000.  In addition if you select 1000 or 2000 and push the horn button, the horn will sound and there is no dialing back and forth between numbers.  And further, when you go back to the basement in two weeks there is no need to search for the piece of paper where you wrote down the nember 100; you only need to look at the side of the loco cab for that number.

 

So with the ProCab Consist I can use either the consist or individual loco number?

Did. Not knon that..

Thanks

Gary

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