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Problem with my Athearn Genesis

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:14 AM

I am almost never any help in these kinds of threads . . . but my temptation would be to try to set the address to 1110 instead of 0111. I don't know how various systems handle leading zeros.

Carry on.

Robert 

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:18 AM

nemesys
I checked like you suggested that the loco was still responding to address 3, which it did. I then set CV29 to 38.

You did say that you have a ProdigyAdvance?  According to the user manual I found on line, https://tonystrains.com/download/mrc-advance-man.pdf, for addresses 1 to 127 CV29 should be 2, and for addresses 128 to 9999 should be 34.  See page 2-8 of the instruction.

111 or 0111 appear to be short addresses so far as the Prodigy is concerned.  Try setting CV29 to 2 and see what happens.  If that works, then we'll all say RT**M.

 

Edit:  Oh, and to make Rich and a bunch of us others happy, please set CV 19 to zero before you do anything else. It will only take a second.

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:20 AM

1110 on any system would be long address 1110. So it's an option for the OP where the cab number is 111.

AFAIK, only NCE bothers with leading 0's, which is how it distinguishes short address 111 from long address 111. Most others use a rigid demarcation where address in one range are always short and address in another range are always long, so all you do is key in the address you want to select and the system takes care of it. I'm beginning to suspect MRC is one of these, despite how in much of their design they copied NCE.

                                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by nemesys on Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:29 AM

I have tried to set CV19 to 0. As others pointed out, if the loco is responding at this very moment to address 3, then CV19 has to be 0, no?

As for trying 0111 or 1110, I have initially tried address 1234 and it didn't work. When I tried "0111", it was at the "Adr" prompt when programming on the main track. When you hit "Enter" on programming, the first thing the Prodigy asks is the loco address. I usually just press "Enter". Then, the second prompt is "Adr". That's what I used to set my 2nd Bachmann that I had been unable to program to address 974. I just entered "974" there and it seems that the Prodigy did take care of setting CV29, CV17 and CV18 because now this Bachmann is perfectly responding to 974. That's when I tried the same thing with address "0111" on the Athearn. I didn't try to change CVs values, I just entered "111" when prompted for the "Adr". The manual for the Prodigy doesn't explain what this "Adr" is but I am now assuming it is prompting for a new address for the loco. Since the first prompt is "Loco", I'm guessing it wants to know which loco you want to program. Then, "Adr" is showing which seems to be the new address. I will write to MRC to ask them to clarify.

The problem is that the only thing the Athearn is taking is a reset of the decoder.

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:36 AM

Did you try setting CV29 to 2 as I mentioned above for address 111?

EDIT: And when it asks for the loco address, re-enter 111 rather than just pushing the enter key.

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, April 15, 2018 11:57 AM

 You DIDN'T try 1234 - you used the wrong programming sequence which is why that didn't work.

 From what maxman found, 111 will never work as a long address. You do not set anythign into CV17 or 18 for this. But here's the rub, you can't just change CV1 when using POM.  If the loco is currently address 3 and working, first you have to change it to something else, like 1234, long address. THEN you can repeat the process but instead of setting CV17 and 18, you set CV1 to 111 and then set CV29 to 2.

If it's running now on 3, do this, EXACTLY.

Enter POM mode.

Set CV17 = 196

Set CV18 = 210

Set CV29 = 38

Now go back and select loco 1234 - it should run. With 1234 selected, go bac into POM mode

Set CV1 = 111

Set CV29 = 2

Now it won't be working again. Go back and select loco 111 - should work.

                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:46 PM

nemesys

I have tried to set CV19 to 0. As others pointed out, if the loco is responding at this very moment to address 3, then CV19 has to be 0, no?

Who knows with MRC equipment. With the NCE PH-Pro, 3 is a valid consist number, so on my PH-Pro, 3 can be a short address or a consist (CV19=3).

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 15, 2018 3:48 PM

rrinker

1110 on any system would be long address 1110. So it's an option for the OP where the cab number is 111.

Or, 1111, for that matter.

Rich

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Posted by maxman on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 6:23 PM

I wonder what happened with this problem.

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Posted by mbinsewi on Wednesday, April 18, 2018 9:49 PM

maxman
I wonder what happened with this problem.

Yea, I've been wondering too, as I like to follow along with these threads, and see what the "fix" ends up being.

I know nothing about the MRC system, as I'm still learning my 13 year old Digitrax, SEB.

Mike.

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Posted by nemesys on Thursday, April 19, 2018 12:00 PM

I haven't had the time to try the latest suggestions but I will this weekend and will keep you posted.

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, April 21, 2018 4:37 AM

mbinsewi
 
maxman
I wonder what happened with this problem. 

Yea, I've been wondering too, as I like to follow along with these threads, and see what the "fix" ends up being.

I know nothing about the MRC system, as I'm still learning my 13 year old Digitrax, SEB. 

I will make this offer to nemesys. Box up the Athearn Genesis FP7 and mail it to me. Assuming that there is nothing wrong with the decoder, I will program it to an appropriate long address and send it back to him. This issue has been lingering since April 4th.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, April 21, 2018 9:54 AM

 I am convinced the problem is simply that MRC behaves more like my Digitrax, addresses 1-127 are always short. I can program a decoder to have a long address 111, but then I won't be able to control it until I change the address. 

                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by nemesys on Sunday, April 29, 2018 4:18 PM

richhotrain

 

 
mbinsewi
 
maxman
I wonder what happened with this problem. 

Yea, I've been wondering too, as I like to follow along with these threads, and see what the "fix" ends up being.

I know nothing about the MRC system, as I'm still learning my 13 year old Digitrax, SEB. 

 

 

I will make this offer to nemesys. Box up the Athearn Genesis FP7 and mail it to me. Assuming that there is nothing wrong with the decoder, I will program it to an appropriate long address and send it back to him. This issue has been lingering since April 4th.

 

Rich

 

Thanks, Rich. I might take you up on your offer once I hear what MRC has to say.

Sorry, folks, I've been really busy for the last couple of weeks and didn't have much time to mess up with my trains. I'll keep you posted.

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, April 29, 2018 4:25 PM

I'll be waiting.

Rich

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, April 29, 2018 7:31 PM

 Don't know why this is so complicated. It will work as short address 111 or long address 1110 or some variation. Those are the ONLY options. It will NOT work on MRC as long address 0111. There is ZERO issue using a short addresse for a loco. Selection and operation is exactly the same as any other loco address. 

                                  --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, April 30, 2018 4:19 AM

This thread reminds me of the Coffee Talk segment on SNL. 

Talk amongst yourselves!

Nearly a month since this thread was first posted.

What's MRC gonna say or offer? It's an Athearn Genesis loco with a factory installed Tsunami 2 decoder. Seems to me that MRC is gonna say, send the loco back to Athearn. And, Athearn is gonna say, send the decoder to Soundtraxx.

The big mystery here is what CV values are stored in the decoder.

We may never find out. I'll have another cup of coffee.

Rich

 

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, April 30, 2018 6:51 AM

 It's been successfully reset several times, as the OP has had it work on address 3. It wouldn't work on address 3 if CV19 were non-zero, si it is all getting reset as expected.

 First time he manually tried CV17/18/29, he set CV29 first, that of course will instantly cause it to not work in POM.

 Second time, instead of retrying with 1234, he went right to 111, and then set CV29 for a long address. Didn't work because MRC can't run long address 111.

 If the loco is reset to 3, it can't take another short address in CV1. It first needs a long address. So use the calculator values for 1234 and put them in CV17, then CV18, and finally set CV29 to 34. I will guarantee if these steps are done in order, the loco will work as 1234.

If you really want 111, now that it works as 1234, use POM mode again and set CV1 to 111, and CV29 to 6.

Done.

                                          --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, April 30, 2018 7:23 AM

OK, so we continue to talk amongst ourselves. LOL

The fact that the decoder has been reset several times tells me that there is nothing wrong with the decoder, at least in terms of its ability to program CV values.

I am not going to waste anymore of my time going through this entire long thread once again, but I don't recall if an attempt was ever made to "reset" CV19 to zero. Apparently, the OP has no ability to read the value in CV19.

Randy, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall that the OP got the decoder to work on long address 1234. Has the OP got the decoder to work on any long address?

Rich

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Posted by nemesys on Monday, April 30, 2018 8:29 AM

richhotrain

OK, so we continue to talk amongst ourselves. LOL

The fact that the decoder has been reset several times tells me that there is nothing wrong with the decoder, at least in terms of its ability to program CV values.

I am not going to waste anymore of my time going through this entire long thread once again, but I don't recall if an attempt was ever made to "reset" CV19 to zero. Apparently, the OP has no ability to read the value in CV19.

Randy, correct me if I am wrong, but I don't recall that the OP got the decoder to work on long address 1234. Has the OP got the decoder to work on any long address?

Rich

 

As a matter of fact, I have been unable to set the loco to *any* address. The thread is going on because I think some people are suggesting some things and others are suggesting other things.

I will try the steps outlined by Randy when I have a chance and will report back.

Thing is, I have been able to successfully set the long address of 4 different locomotives, so, the MRC got to work. It just doesn't seem to work with that Tsunami decoder for some reason...

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Posted by rrinker on Monday, April 30, 2018 10:51 AM

 The first attempt at using 1234 failed because CV29 got set first. It has to be last. The fact that it stopped responding and needed a reset to gt back to 3 means it did take the CV29 setting. The fact that is actually resets (at least using POM - let's do 1 thing at a time and worry about the working of the PTB-100 for later) also means the decoder can accept programming.

 I've always said the way the NMRA specified the address range to try and please every manufacturer (just because some have silly engineers) was a mistake and this thread in a large part validates that. It's too confusing. 

                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by nemesys on Monday, April 30, 2018 9:48 PM

Guys, I hope you will forgive me. I finally discovered what was wrong. I was using a terminal track for my programming track. Tonight, after getting a phone message from MRC support, I decided to measure the voltage on the programming track when doing a "read". I discovered that the voltage was way too low, in the millivolts area. I checked under the terminal track. The leads from the screws to the rails seem to be fine

In any case, I decided to solder the wires from the PTB-100 directly to the rail. Did measure the voltage and this time, it was 11 volts. I put one of my Bachmann that had given me problems before and within seconds, its correct address was returned.

I then decided to put the Athearn Genesis back on the programming track. Did a read of its address and again, within seconds, it returned "003". So, I switched to programming. At the first prompt where the cab was displaying "Addr?", I entered 111 and pressed Enter. Switched to read and within seconds, address 111 was displayed on the cab. I put back the Athearn on the main track. Entered 111 for the loco address and it started responding without any problem!

I am so sorry that I had all of you scratching your head about this problem. I guess that should serve as a warning to inspect everything you use for your programming track and never assume ANYTHING!

I want to thank you all for the encouraging words you had for me. It really meant something to me because I feel part of this small community.

Thank you again and sorry if I made you waste your time on my stupidity!

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Posted by BigDaddy on Monday, April 30, 2018 10:36 PM

Not being familiar with MRC, I kept my mouth shut for once and stayed out of this thread.  It wasn't your stupidity but an equipment failure. 

But think of our friend Rich, the ever helpful but impatient guy with no other murder mystery oops, I mean electrical mystery in the forum to solve.  He doesn't even get to play with your loco. 

Rich, Randy, Maxman, Ed and myself are going to have to hang out at the Chicago Trib, until the next electrical case comes along.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-sa-sudoku-htmlstory.html

 

 

Henry

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 5:00 AM

BigDaddy

Not being familiar with MRC, I kept my mouth shut for once and stayed out of this thread.  It wasn't your stupidity but an equipment failure. 

But think of our friend Rich, the ever helpful but impatient guy with no other murder mystery oops, I mean electrical mystery in the forum to solve.  He doesn't even get to play with your loco. 

Rich, Randy, Maxman, Ed and myself are going to have to hang out at the Chicago Trib, until the next electrical case comes along.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-sa-sudoku-htmlstory.html 

Love Sudokus, and I do the one in the Trib every day. My one complaint is that the #4 on Fridays is a bit too challenging.

Impatient? I plead guilty, but once these electrical issues surface, I like to see them get resolved as quickly as possible. This one did drag on, but these issues sometimes do.

I'm not sure that I would label this an "equipment failure", but the problem we face in replying to electrical issues is that we rely on certain basic assumptions which sometimes turn out to be inaccurate. In this case, in his initial post, the OP mentioned his "program track", and we erred by assuming that it was wired correctly since he had programmed other locos on his program track. The fact that the addition of the PTB-100 made no difference was probably a tipoff that sonething was amiss with the program track.

I can't blame the OP. We all make mistakes. In his favor is the fact that he reported back to us, something that does not always occur. Let it be a lesson to all of us not to take anything for granted when an electrical issue is presented to us.

Rich

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Posted by gdelmoro on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 6:42 AM

Didn’t someone suggest a separate piece of track be set-up?

I had a similar fo-pa (sp). I had an electrical problem where the thread went on and on and at some point Randy or Rich recommended I do something that I did not.  It would have fixed the problem.

Gary

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 7:32 AM

 Well, he WAS using a separate piece of track, just a defective one. No reason a terminal track shouldn't work, but there must be a break between the terminals and the rails in the one he was using.

 I will caution that most meters won't show anything on the program track, the power is only applied in short pulses. I don't have and have no need for a PTB-100, so I don't know what the electrical output of one of those looks like. So no reading won't necessarily mean it's broken. To check the wiring, you can disconnect the wires from the command station and test continuity to the rails of the program track, or short the track and check continuity across the two wires (again, with them disconnected from the command station). That will at least tell you if it's possible for power to reach the program track rails.

                                         --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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