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Reversing Loops

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Posted by starman on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 3:52 PM
I have attached a picture of the yard that will go into the area marked yard on the previous picture of my track plan.  I hope to install it a lot better than I was able to draw using my layout program.
Please look at this picture and let me know if you see any reverse loops, with the exception of the turntable.  I will deal with wiring of the turntable when I purchase and install it.
As usual, all comments and help will be appreciated.
Thanks,

 

Jack
 
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Posted by starman on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 4:25 PM

Rich

Thanks for your drawing and comments.  This reversing loop actually seems very simple.  I want to be sure I understand the reversing loop correctly.  The actual reversing loop is between the two dots on the far left and two dots on the far right, as seen in your lower diagram.  Is this correct?

Jack

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 4:25 PM

Edit we posted at the same time an now I am confused as I did not fit it into your previous track plan.  If a train enters the yard going down the page, through any of the tracks under the word Maintenance and exits on a separate track that doesn't merge with the entering track, there is no reversing loop.  But maybe I am lost between track plans 

Henry

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Posted by floridaflyer on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 8:14 PM

Your yard track around the engine facility is a reverse loop. You enter the yard going south into the maintance area, go around the engine facility and exit the yard going north using the same entrance track. that is a reverse loop 

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Posted by richhotrain on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:44 PM

starman

Rich

Thanks for your drawing and comments.  This reversing loop actually seems very simple.  I want to be sure I understand the reversing loop correctly.  The actual reversing loop is between the two dots on the far left and two dots on the far right, as seen in your lower diagram.  Is this correct?

Jack

 

Yes, it is correct, and it is best seen in the upper diagram. In the lower diagram, I was trying to show a longer reversing section in which case, the divergent side of those two turnouts must be gapped to prevent the occurrence of reverse polarity on the passing sidings.

Rich

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Posted by floridaflyer on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 8:35 AM

Rich, have a question. would putting a blue dot between turnouts B/F and C/G separate the reversing sections into two separate sections? would require two ARs but would eliminate the two trains in one reversing section situation. Not sure how an AR reacts to another AR as a loco moves from one section to another though.

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Posted by starman on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 9:59 AM

Rich

 

Is it necessary to get my entire train in the reversing loop?  If so, I can move the insulators on the far left and far right to accommodate the length on my longest train.
 
Also, assume that engine A is traveling from right to left on track 1, at the very top of the track plan.  At the same time, assume that engine B is traveling from left to right along the lower of the two number 2 tracks, at the top of the track plan.  If engine B crosses from g to c, everything is fine; however, if engine B then crosses from d to a, engine B will be traveling in the opposite direction, on the same track, as engine A.  Is this handled with the AR1 that allows and engine on track 2 to switch and travel in the opposite direction, or have I created a second reversing loop?  The same question would apply when and engine B, traveling from left to right on the upper track 2, at the top of the track plan, crosses from b to f and then from h to i.

 

Jack
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Posted by starman on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:05 AM

floridaflyer

Your yard track around the engine facility is a reverse loop. You enter the yard going south into the maintance area, go around the engine facility and exit the yard going north using the same entrance track. that is a reverse loop 

 

Floridaflyer

 

I see the problem.  I believe I can eliminate that reversing loop by having the track on the far left of the classification section of the yard return to the other track number two rather than where it is currently drawn.  

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Posted by starman on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 10:09 AM

floridaflyer
 Not sure how an AR reacts to another AR as a loco moves from one section to another. . . .
 

Interesting question!

 

Jack

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 12:11 PM

 You do not generally want one AR section to directly join another. That should be extremely rare that this would happen anyway. There are some that have a setting for when two are back to back, if it really becomes unavoidable.

                                    --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by starman on Wednesday, August 09, 2017 6:02 PM

starman
I have attached a picture of the yard that will go into the area marked yard on the previous picture of my track plan.

Below is a redrawn track plan for my yard.  I know it is not drawn very well.  I apologize for the quality, but I had rather spend time installing track than trying to draw pretty pictures.  I think you can see where everything is planned to go.  I have tried to flip the picture over, but no matter what I do, it stays upside down. Frustrating!! Sad
 
My question - I can see if an engine travels from the point marked AR1, around the turntable, and back to AR1, I have created a reversing loop.  I have put Os where I think insulators should go.  Do I understand this reversing loop correctly?
 
Also, will this reversing loop affect the turntable, assuming I wire the turntable as shown in the instructions that would come with the turntable?
 
Jack
 
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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:32 AM

The short answer is no. You haven't isolated all tracks. You are making this more complicated than it needs to be. My suggestion is to move point AR1 as far to the right as possible, leaving the other end of the crossover where it is just above the letter M. Now remove all the circles except the farthest circle to the right in the upper group of circles from your plan and do the following. Put a circle at the divergent end of the relocated turnout at AR1 (assuming you use the same right hand turnout), put another circle at the turnout at the letter M, at the right hand end of the turnout this would be on the thru track. next put a circle on the divergent track leading to the turntable. You should now have 4 circles, one at AR1, one at the thru track at M, one isolating the lead to the turntable and the one that you left from the original drawing. The reversing section would be from the divergent track at AR1 to the original circle.  

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Posted by starman on Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:11 PM

Floridaflyer, thanks for your reply.  I do have one question now and I may have others later.  Are your instructions written for the layout as it is presented in my post (upside down), or did you flip it over before writing the instructions?

Jack

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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:22 PM

I followed the diagram as it is in your post, appears upsidedown. If you flip the diagram,  you would still circle the divergent track at AR1. I would move the turnout at AR1 as far left as possible in order to increase the length of the reversing section. The original circle would now be the the farthest left circle in the group of four on the bottom of the diagram. the circle at the turnout to the turntable would be the same and the circle would be to the left of the turnout at"M". The reversing section is still from the divergent track at AR1 to the original far left circle ( of the original group of four). Any track that touches the reversing section ( at "M" and the turntable lead has the be isolated from reversing section. The circles at M and TT lead do that.

 

Edit. see Rich's post below. He flipped your plan to the correct orientation

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:51 PM

starman

Rich

 

Is it necessary to get my entire train in the reversing loop?  If so, I can move the insulators on the far left and far right to accommodate the length on my longest train.
 
Also, assume that engine A is traveling from right to left on track 1, at the very top of the track plan.  At the same time, assume that engine B is traveling from left to right along the lower of the two number 2 tracks, at the top of the track plan.  If engine B crosses from g to c, everything is fine; however, if engine B then crosses from d to a, engine B will be traveling in the opposite direction, on the same track, as engine A.  Is this handled with the AR1 that allows and engine on track 2 to switch and travel in the opposite direction, or have I created a second reversing loop?  The same question would apply when and engine B, traveling from left to right on the upper track 2, at the top of the track plan, crosses from b to f and then from h to i.

 

Jack
 

Yes, you want the reversing section to be long enough to accommodate the longest train. Otherwise, the loco will be exiting the reversing section while some of the trailing cars are still entering, causing a conflict with the AR1 (unless your rolling stock is unlighted and has plastic wheels).

Your best bet is to extend the reversing section on the left side to avoid a more complex reversing section with those crossovers on the right side.

In your two examples of engine B moving from left to right, as long as you have not extended the right side of the reversing section, you will have no problems with either of those two movements since the connecting turnouts will have matching polarities.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:02 PM

floridaflyer

Rich, have a question. would putting a blue dot between turnouts B/F and C/G separate the reversing sections into two separate sections? would require two ARs but would eliminate the two trains in one reversing section situation. Not sure how an AR reacts to another AR as a loco moves from one section to another though.

 

No, don't do that. As Randy indicated, you do not want two reversing sections directly adjacent to each other.

One way to allow trains to pass each other on those two parallel tracks with only one AR1 would be to add gaps between the divergent rails on the connecting turnouts (b and f, c and g) on those two crossovers and then add gaps on the lower track 2 at the top of the diagram to completely isolate the reversing section.

That way, the upper track 2 won't even be a reversing section.

Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:10 PM

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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:40 PM

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Posted by floridaflyer on Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:41 PM

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Posted by ROBERT PETRICK on Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:48 PM

Edit: Deleted

LINK to SNSR Blog

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 10, 2017 8:05 PM

Here is the photo, right side up.

Rich

Picture1.jpg

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Posted by starman on Sunday, August 13, 2017 11:27 AM

Floridaflyer

I have redrawn my yard plan as you suggested, I think.  Have I redrawn it correctly?  Thanks,

Jack

 

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 11:38 AM

Jack, what brand of turntable is it?

Rich

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Posted by floridaflyer on Sunday, August 13, 2017 12:24 PM

Close but no cigar. On the right side of the drawing, the top two circles are fine. At the turnout by "M" put the circle on the main track, not the divergent. At the AR1 turnout move the circle from the main to the divergent. You do not need the circle on the left side up by the TT. Your reversing section will be from the divergent track at AR1 to the top circle on the right of the diagram. Going this isolates the reversing  section of track from the rest of the layout. (Any power going to the re versing section has to go thru the reversing module.)

 

 

doug

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 1:44 PM

In that latest drawing, the only reversing section is that crossover between AR1 and the M in Maintenance. Just gap the divergent side of the two turnouts forming the crossover.

Depending upon the brand of the turntable, there may be no need for an auto-reverser on the approach track to the turntable.

Rich

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Posted by floridaflyer on Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:04 PM

Agree Rich, I added the additional trackage up to the top circle to give the reversing section added length. I gapped the lead to the TT not knowing what the final wiring would look like on that lead, and didn't want the polarity(phase) changing on the lead.  

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:42 PM

floridaflyer

Agree Rich, I added the additional trackage up to the top circle to give the reversing section added length. I gapped the lead to the TT not knowing what the final wiring would look like on that lead, and didn't want the polarity(phase) changing on the lead.  

 

ahh, I must admit, FF, I was too lazy to read your reply. So, it appears that great minds think alike.   Laugh

Rich

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Posted by starman on Sunday, August 13, 2017 2:51 PM

richhotrain

Jack, what brand of turntable is it?

Rich

 

 

I haven't purchased it yet, but I am planning on purchasing a Walthers that is big enough for an articulated steam engine and tender.  Do you have a suggestion?  I'm open to what will work best for me.

Jack

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Posted by richhotrain on Sunday, August 13, 2017 3:01 PM

starman
 
richhotrain

Jack, what brand of turntable is it?

Rich 

I haven't purchased it yet, but I am planning on purchasing a Walthers that is big enough for an articulated steam engine and tender.  Do you have a suggestion?  I'm open to what will work best for me.

Jack 

If you are going to purchase the Walthers Cornerstone DCC 130' turntable, and that is an excellent choice, you will not need an auto-reverser for the turntable because it has a split ring mechanism that will maintain the proper polarity relative to the approach track.

Rich

 

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Posted by starman on Monday, August 14, 2017 10:38 AM

floridaflyer

Close but no cigar. 

 

 

doug

 

How did I do this time?  After I get this right, I will then take the time to see what is happening to try t understand what is going on.  Thanks for your patience!  Your's too, Rich.

Jack

 

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