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TCS WOW Decoder - Sound Cutting Out?

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  • Member since
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  • From: QLD, Australia
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TCS WOW Decoder - Sound Cutting Out?
Posted by tbdanny on Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:11 AM

Hi all,

I've just installed a TCS WOW101-Steam V4 in one of my models, and it seems to be behaving strangely.  The locomotive runs perfectly smoothly, both forward and backward, on straight, curved and turnout track.  However, the chuffing sound from the decoder seems to cut in and out, and go out of sync with the motor.  This seems to happen at random.

The locomotive in question is a Bachmann On30 2-6-0 that's been converted to a 2-6-2.  It's the first time I've used a TCS WOW decoder, and I was wondering if there was any sort of BEMF 'tuning' that may need to be done?

Any advice would be appreciated.

EDIT:

Since posting this, I've done a bit more test running.  I've noticed that when this particular model is running, it sometimes slows for a moment, then speeds up again.  Sometimes this is accompanied by rapid chuffing.  Thing is, it'll then run over the same section of track again without any issues.  I'm suspecting that BEMF may be an issue?

The location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest
The state: Oregon
The year: 1948
The scale: On30
Layout Blog

  • Member since
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  • From: Ledyard, CT
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Posted by BMMECNYC on Sunday, March 12, 2017 8:10 AM

tbdanny

Hi all,

I've just installed a TCS WOW101-Steam V4 in one of my models, and it seems to be behaving strangely.  The locomotive runs perfectly smoothly, both forward and backward, on straight, curved and turnout track.  However, the chuffing sound from the decoder seems to cut in and out, and go out of sync with the motor.  This seems to happen at random.

The locomotive in question is a Bachmann On30 2-6-0 that's been converted to a 2-6-2.  It's the first time I've used a TCS WOW decoder, and I was wondering if there was any sort of BEMF 'tuning' that may need to be done?

Any advice would be appreciated.

EDIT:

Since posting this, I've done a bit more test running.  I've noticed that when this particular model is running, it sometimes slows for a moment, then speeds up again.  Sometimes this is accompanied by rapid chuffing.  Thing is, it'll then run over the same section of track again without any issues.  I'm suspecting that BEMF may be an issue?

 

What DCC system are you using?  Have you tried contacting TCS with your problem?

Nice looking locomotive you have there.   A friend of mine had similar problems with the earlier version of the decoder with a Athearn Genesis Mikado.   I have one installed in a P2K Berkshire, and it runs without issues.  If you had a tender I would suspect a high resistance connection between the motor and the decoder, but that does not seem likely here. 

Rule 108: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.
  • Member since
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  • From: QLD, Australia
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Posted by tbdanny on Monday, March 13, 2017 4:59 PM

BMMECNYC

What DCC system are you using?  Have you tried contacting TCS with your problem?

I'm using a home-built Arduino-based DCC system, which doesn't do programming.  As such, my only programming track is a SPROG2 running JMRI.

I have contacted TCS, and they suspect it may be a BEMF issue.  I'm now trying to do a factory reset by setting CV8 to a value of 2, however JMRI does not seem to allow this to be done.

How do I get JMRI to set this CV value?  I've already tried the 'Reset' option from the application menu, and doing a full reset here doesn't seem to do anything.

I do have a TSU-1100, which is rated at a maximum of 1A stall current.  Unfortunately, the motor has a stall current of 1.06A, hence why I'm using the TCS.

The location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest
The state: Oregon
The year: 1948
The scale: On30
Layout Blog

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  • From: Ledyard, CT
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Posted by BMMECNYC on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:09 PM

Not an expert with JMRI, you might try their yahoo users group.  When you installed the TCS decoder, did you remove the factory lighting board?

Rule 108: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.
  • Member since
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  • From: QLD, Australia
  • 962 posts
Posted by tbdanny on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:11 PM

The factory lighting board (and lights) were the first things I removed.  It's a kitbash, so everything's wired directly to the DCC decoder.

I've just found that the TSU-2200 can do the job as well.  Maybe I may have to switch to one of those.

The location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest
The state: Oregon
The year: 1948
The scale: On30
Layout Blog

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Monday, March 13, 2017 5:12 PM

Reset on TCS is usually CV30=2, not CV8. It won't read back, you need to just use single CV in JMRI and set it. Also sometimes Ops Mode helps, you should be able to do that since the SPROG can also run a loco.

It does seem like a BEMF issue, but you can;t turn off BEMF in the WoW. Might have to adjust it a bit, but usually TCS BEMF is self adjusting, as in erracti operation at first which then settles down as it adjusts. It also sounds like there may be some bind int he mechanism, that would explain the sudden burst and fast shuffs as the BEMF finally can overcome the bind and then it overruns a little before cutting back power.  Does it run smoothly without a decoder, no bind in the gearbox or rods?

                            --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
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  • From: QLD, Australia
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Posted by tbdanny on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:18 PM

Randy,

I've just done some additional testing.  Model runs perfectly on DC, through curves, turnouts, everything without slowing down.  On the decoder, however, I'm getting the same errors as before.

The location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest
The state: Oregon
The year: 1948
The scale: On30
Layout Blog

  • Member since
    November, 2013
  • From: Ledyard, CT
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Posted by BMMECNYC on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:20 PM

rrinker
Reset on TCS is usually CV30=2, not CV8. It won't read back, you need to just use single CV in JMRI and set it. Also sometimes Ops Mode helps, you should be able to do that since the SPROG can also run a loco.

https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Info/FAQPage.php?q=22

This says CV 8 =2, but I kind of remember CV 30 as well.

Rule 108: In case of doubt or uncertainty, the safe course must be taken.
  • Member since
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  • From: QLD, Australia
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Posted by tbdanny on Monday, March 13, 2017 6:25 PM

I've just checked that in JMRI - CV30 isn't even listed.  CV8 is read-only.

The location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest
The state: Oregon
The year: 1948
The scale: On30
Layout Blog

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  • From: Reading, PA
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:26 AM

 The reset CV is always read only, doesn't mean you can't write to it though. It just never changes. If the address is going back to 3, it's resetting. If not, you're not doing something right, or it's not the correct value. Don;t be constrained by the JMRI decoder profile, use the single CV programmer instead of Comprehensive, you can enter any CV you want. I'd still try CV30=2, along with CV8=2. It may have to be in Ops Mode, so you may need to configure the SPROG as command station - you should be able to run a loco on your test track with it unless you have too small a power supply.

                               --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    February, 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 22,065 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, March 14, 2017 7:29 AM

BMMECNYC
 
rrinker
Reset on TCS is usually CV30=2, not CV8. It won't read back, you need to just use single CV in JMRI and set it. Also sometimes Ops Mode helps, you should be able to do that since the SPROG can also run a loco.

 

https://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Info/FAQPage.php?q=22

This says CV 8 =2, but I kind of remember CV 30 as well.

 

 Well that's interesting, some of the individual decoder documents still list CV30-2 as the reset, the WOW decoders just say refer to the comprehensive guide which says nothing about reset. Sometimes I have to wonder what they are thinking to change stuff like that around. Then you have to figure out which firmware uses what options and what one you have. It's silly stuff like this that is pushing me to just use Lokpilot for non sound since I'm using Loksound for all my sound locos anyway. I've been using all TCS for non sound so far.

                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    June, 2009
  • From: QLD, Australia
  • 962 posts
Posted by tbdanny on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 1:11 PM

I found the 'Single CV Programmer' in JMRI, and used that to perform the reset.  Once that worked, I tested the loco again, with the same results.  I've now contacted TCS about it.

The location: Forests of the Pacific Northwest
The state: Oregon
The year: 1948
The scale: On30
Layout Blog

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