Must be true if publishable. Found it in a DCC Group in Yahoo. We shall see. May 25th suppose to be mentioned by SoundTraxx. Have fun.
Quote.
Announcing Tsunami2 Premium Digital Sound Decoders!
SoundTraxx is pleased to announce Tsunami2, a new line of Digital Sound Decoders that combines the best in digital sound with trailblazing and innovative operating features. Tsunami2 sets a new standard for premium sound decoders, with the emphasis on FUN! More sounds, more features, more ways to run your trains like a real engineer. Your model railroading experience will leap to a whole new level of realism!
Expansive memory means that each decoder is packed with multi ple prototypes and accompanying sound effects. No computer dongles or downloading is required – sounds are changed instantly by way of simple CV programming using your command station. The new incredibly small TSU-1100 provides waves of pure digital sound that will delight your senses, with effects so amazing you won't believe your ears. Tsunami2 sound features are matched only by its superior motor control and brilliant lighting effects, making it unsurpassed in its technological capabilities. Tsunami2 leads the industry in processing power, with a 32-bit processor that provides the necessary horsepower needed to support 28 functions, 16 polyphonic sound channels, tons of sound and lighting effects, advanced motor control and yet - measures just 27mm x 10.5mm x 5mm!
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Interesting...
Glad to hear the folks in Durango are "raising the bar" as it were.
I'm looking forward to hearing what they have to offer.
Thanks for the heads up,
Ed
The TSU-1100 is the same size as the Econami. 27mm x 10.5mm x 5mm.
One amp limit.
No idea about connectors yet or any other features.
Found this morning.
https://tonystrains.com/news/
Great news.
Guy
see stuff at: the Willoughby Line Site
I agree it is a nice news, but just four function outputs?
Hope we will know more when Soundtraxx anounces it on their web site.
Hrvoje
more.....
To be announced May 25th
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I'll be interested to see how the Tsunami2, LokSound and WowSound compare. Of course we will see info here in the forum over time but it will be somewhat hodge-podge coming to light.
I'd love to see someone (else) take identical locos (say, 3 steam types and 3 diesel types, and 3 of each for the different decoders) and install the 3 decoders (easier, if done in 18 locos total, than switching out decoders), then objectively evaluate (say, 0-10) various factors such as motor control (untuned and tuned, tuning process, etc), sound quality and features, CV setting process, etc. Of course, much of this would be as much subjective as objective.
I'm interested in this but not ready to volunteer. If the group would like to buy me 18 new locos of my choosing plus the 18 decoders, I'll consider it. But you might be disappointed in the results, such as how long the research project would take (I think 6 years is reasonable, the goal being before the next generations are released), conclusions based on limited expertise, project failure due to burned out decoders incorrectly installed, etc.
Actually the manufacturers have probably done this, but getting their results may be unlikely. I recall when my former employeer evaluated important performance characteristics of a certain truck oriented motor oil and compared it in a published flyer to competitors x, y, z. If you knew who to ask you could determine which was x, y and z.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Until Soundtraxx motor-control improves - i.e. is equivalent to either TCS or Loksound - I'm not particularly interested in a sequel to Tsunami.
For me - motor-control is MUCH more important than sound. You can have an incredible-sounding steam or diesel switcher idling away in your yard. However, if the starting speed is an immediate 4-5sMPH (and I've read some MR product reviews where that was the case with a Soundtraxx decoder), that puppy would get yanked out of service on any railroad.
And, yes - I know you can tweak Soundtraxx decoders to operate slower than the above. I have yet though to see one outcrawl a TCS or Loksound decoder. Needless to say, I'm in the wait-and-see mode with the Tsunami 2s.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Me too, Tom. I was turned off of Tsunami by the very rigid sound profiles (can't load user-created sound profiles), terrible motor control, and of course the "flashing light" problem most of my locomotives with Tsunami exhibit when they run over a frog on my layout...specifically, they hit frog, and flash the headlight 7 times, wait a minute, and then reset. LokSound and TCS decoders don't do that, and I prefer LokSound for my sound decoders and TCS for my silent decoders. I have yet to see any decoder besides TCS that can get my P2K 2-8-4s crawling at 330 scale meters per hour - yes, that's 0.21 scale mph! It took a full minute for the drivers to complete a single revolution.
I'm currently standardizing on those two manufacturers. Tsunami has a long way to go to win me back.
Although I performed some DCC decoder installations, I still have to install a sound decoder. But I already have two candidates : one 4-6-0 "Ten Weeler" and a 2-8-0 Consolidation. My own criteria are, in that order, speed control, price, sound. Up to now I was hesitating between Loksound and TCS Wowsound. I am anxious to hear about this new Tsunami performances.
But don't forget my first criterium, slow speed.
Modeling CNR in the 50's
I guess I'm from the age when you didn't just unbox a model RR product and expect it to be RTR without further intervention. The issue of motor control is often mentioned with the original Tsunami. Somehoe it gets the blame for asking that the user -- not always mind you -- do some adjusting to get optimum performance from it. Depending on the model's motor and drivetrain, results vary and, yes, you may have to do some adjusting. Not quite the same thing as what some may remember as "kits" mind you...
"Terrible" though?
These outside factors do make a difference. Take this one...
PakunaMatatathe "flashing light" problem most of my locomotives with Tsunami exhibit when they run over a frog on my layout...specifically, they hit frog, and flash the headlight 7 times, wait a minute, and then reset.
That sounds like a track or gauge problem. Not much a decoder can do when it sees a short but shut down. Or would you rather it not self-protect? Maybe the Tsunami was oversensitive, but the only time I've had this issue was when I had an issue with something other than the decoder.
While slow speed performance seems to lead to bragging rights, it's a fairly artifical construct in relation to the prototype. Sure, you want slow speed and smooth starts -- both quite possible with some CV adjustments with the Tsunami, so I don't see the fears about that (remember that "kit" thing?) -- but a crawl on the 1:1 usually results in a stop or a "let's go" -- 1:1 engineers don't seem much interested in seeing how short a distance they can go in a shift, given there's usually an expectation that some work gets done.
Of course, that's the past and we've yet to get our hands on the new. Time and tetsing will tell. But after I get slow out of a decoder, I'm happy and can move on to programming the rest, not getting out my stopwatch. Excellent slow speed perfomance is available on the Tsunami, but like those "kits" of yore, some small effort is required.
As for just 4 outputs, yes, but this is the smallest Tsu2 for now. That's all the competition has space for in that general (micro)size of decoder. There's only so much real estate for solder pads. It's not been announced, but you can count on the fact that since there are 6 outputs in the larger size Econami decoders, when they are produced in those sizes as Tsu2s, you'll see at least that many outputs.
While the option of user-uploadable content is interesting, the reality is that there seems to be few who do anything but talk about it. I've got the capability to do field recordings myself, but I have no inclination or belief that anything I can put on a decoder beats what the mfg did. For most people, the new Tsu2's capability to switch between multiple sounds with a simple change of CVs is a more likely to be used feature. Then again, when I install a decoder, it's not going to be a decoder of the month. No, it's staying and I'm happy with it or I wouldn't have installed it in the first place. You're always stuck with the same hardware, even with uploadable files and that's usually where you find the limits of a decoder (# of outputs, amp rating, etc), not the sound files.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
In the meantime, I realized it is impossible that Tsunami 2 will be offered in just one version, with 4 outputs - when Econami has version with 6.
I am also pretty confident that new Tsunami will have excellent motor control, as is (from what I have read), offered already by Econami. After all, inferior motor control was probably the most mentioned feature of Tsunami that users wished to be improved. It is possible to fine tune it, but it must be admitted that Tsunami simple cannot follow ESU, TCS or Zimo in slow speed performance.
I am very much satisfied with sound, especially steam version - I like chuffing sound of 2-cylinder locomotive very much, especially when DDE is fine tuned.
I never had overheating problem with Tsunami, because I always have taken into account that this decoder requires additional heat sink (as I learned from different forums) - so I used in most cases small piece of aluminum sheet, if tender/loco chassis/shell was not the option.
I also like Tsunami braking function, but was even more delighted with "gradual" brake offered by TCS WOW. In fact, lack of any braking function with ESU sound decoders prevented me until now to buy any ESU steam decoder - I do not want to run locomotives as "slot cars". It seems though that even ESU is changing its attitude - with "ESU Full Throttle" feature for diesel decoders. Let's just hope they will also "upgrade" their steam decoders. Considering the fact that I appreciate variety, i.e. I do not want to "standardize", I am sure I will buy one ESU steam decoder when some kind of brake is introduced (if it is already there, please inform me - I did not buy any, so what I know - I know from the available info on the Internet).
To conclude - I think we really can appreciate what is happening - more and more high quality sound decoders are offered, and all what we have to do is - explore them and enjoy
Spalato68After all, inferior motor control was probably the most mentioned feature of Tsunami that users wished to be improved. It is possible to fine tune it, but it must be admitted that Tsunami simple cannot follow ESU, TCS or Zimo in slow speed performance.
And, although not a sound decoder, Lenz Silver- & Gold-series decoders rival TCS and ESU motor control. I have one in an older Walthers SW1 switcher and that thing will do 0.33sMPH.
Agree, forgot to mention Lenz. I do not have experience with them, but from all what I have read/heard, these are also excellent motor control decoders.
Btw, I prefer if decoder enables to tune BEMF (motor control) variables manually. This can be an advantage if there is and old motor (e.g. three pole, or old "pancake" motor, like in Fleischmann locomotives).
Very recently I installed older ESU motor decoder (V 3.0) in Katsumi FEF 4-8-4, which has open frame, five pole motor. Running performance "out of the box" was good, but better after some tuning of motor control related variables.
Here is a short video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9Xx6J8TDyA
Be interesting to compare what you get manually tuning in a V4.0 vs using the automatic configuration. I'll bet you end up with pretty close parameters - within say +/- 2-3 of the values generated by the automatic tuning.
What's often not known about TCS decoders is they have a LOT more tunign CVs for all sorts of things - the motor drive, the lighting, etc. They are not listed in the basic instructions that come with the decoder because probably 95% of the people using them will never need to touch those parameters, but there is a full CV manual available on the TCS web site that goes into detail on all these additional settings. This applies to me (the 95% not needing to touch any of that) because my modeled prototype and era has no flashing lights or any other effects, heck depending on what year I say it is EXACTLY they may not have even used the headlight except after dusk. So I give my locos an address and that's pretty much it for configuration - no need for JMRI or anything for that.
Zimo and CT decoders really have the motor control down. Mostly I don;t see much difference between Lenz/TCS level vs Zimo on my friend's N scale layout, no matter how much you tweak the motor control on the Zimo, but it may make a difference for certain motor types. There seems to be more emphasis on automated oepration with European layout (generalization), thus a greater need for very exact motor control so the loco always moves the same speed no matter what. Most North American operators tend to dislike BEMF that acts like a 'cruise control' so that no matter how long the train or how steep the grade, the loco continues to roll along at the same speed.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I had once opportunity to use ESU with automatic BEMF configuration (probably V 4.0?) with old Fleischmann "pancake" motor. After BEMF configuration was over, locomotive still did not run smoothly - some minor jerking was still visible. After manual tuning, it was running perfectly.
I am not advocating automatic configuration is useless, just that in certain cases, it is good to have a possibility to fine tune the motor control. In most cases, it is enough to decrease it's effect.
I have read on several places on the Internet, that e.g. if a TCS WOW is installed in a locomotive with 3-pole motor and it is not possible to achieve smooth running, than the motor should be replaced. I think the opposite, because if 3-pole motor is in perfect condition, there is no reason to replace it. Not to say that replacing a motor is not an easy task for many modelers. I have mixed experience with TCS WOW in respect of motor control. With 5-pole motors, motor control is absolutely superb – I think, it is not possible to make it better than that. But, with e.g. coreless motor, it is unusable, at least this is my experience. I tried to use it with Trix Mikado, but the running was horrible - I was afraid a motor will burn or gears will crack - it was jerking like crazy. I have read the full TCS manual, but did not find any CV's for motor control tweaking. You even cannot switch off BEMF on TCS WOW (either gradually or completely). Even my old Tsunami performs better in another Trix Mikado. I think TCS WOW is a great decoder (I have 2), but I think it should enable fine tuning of motor control, and also include a possibility to gradually switch BEMF off (CV 10 in Tsunami and some other decoders).
I also do not like when locomotive keeps the same speed over the whole layout being on a grade, or on level track. It is much more interesting (and closer to reality I think) when it slows down going up, and chuffs heavily compared to e.g. running downhill, chuffing lightly.
My last decoder installation was for a friend's Kato NW2 Union Pacific. He gave me one motor decoder without any info on decoder brand. I measured it and according to some Internet pictures, I identified it as Zimo. After full decoder reset, locomotive was not running smoothly. But, after reading Zimo manual (not the most understandable to read), I achieved what I wanted - very smooth, slow speed performance - on the level of TSC WOW in my Trix Big Boy, which I consider one of the best running locomotives I have.
This is the TCS comprehensive manual. They even have a CV to set for 3 poole motors:
http://www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Technical_Info/Tech_Manuals/Comprehensive%20Programming%20Guide.pdf
But amazing that they took away the ability to shut off BEMF for WOW. I guess because it uses the BEMF load for the sound control - laboring chuffs vs light load rod clank in the steam and the prime mover for the diesel version. The linked version of the manual is up to date and includes the notation that the BEMF control in CV61 is disabled for WOW Sound.
I haven't used any WOW Sound yet, but all my non-sound locos have TCS motor decoders. Pretty much all of them are 5 pole motors of varying quality. I've noticed they are all somewhat jerky the first time they run but it quickly smooths out - I'm guessing however they manage the automatic configuration, a coreless motor doesn't generate a strong enough BEMF signal to trigger.
Loksound though - I never did fiddle with the one in my Bowser with a Canon motor, it creeps smoothly tie to tie right out of the box. I don't know how I could make it any better.
I have done a number of LokSound Select installs and in most cases, as already noted, it runs very well without additiional tweaking.
A special case was a Bachmann doodlebug where I replaced the drive with a NWSL Stanton drive (due to cracked gears on the old drive). The Stanton jerked severely without adjusting the BEMF settings. Not knowing what type motor the Stanton is, I tried the other standard settings in the manual (for coreless motor, can motor w/o flywheel) and those did not help. But the auto tune procedure did the trick, not quite as good as on the typical diesels I have, but acceptable as a unique item. Tweaking the settings from there did not seem to help further.
I don't know how well the Wow or Tsunami2 would work (with adjustments) with this type motor.
Randy
Thank you for the link - I read this manual, but not the latest one, so I knew that BEMF cannot be switched off (or that CV 10 is not available) in WOW decoder from TCS newsgroup communication. I also read there that 3-pole motor is sometimes problem for WOW, so the way out is to install new motor (e.g. Mashima). My two locomotives do not have 3-pole motor, so I did not even had the reason to test this option.
I do not have a lot of experience with ESU, but whenever I had to deal with those decoders, there was no real problem with motor control. I was very pleasantly surprised with one of the latest installations (Brass Katsumi FEF, with old, open frame motor) - even without fine tuning, ESU Lokpilot 3.0 performed very well, with minimal jerking - but much less than Tsunami (diesel), which I also had, so I just tested it as motor decoder.
I think that in some extent, if someone wishes to fine tune motor control, it is also a personal taste. For someone, locomotive is running perfectly, but someone else maybe has the opinon, there is still some area for improvement.
Official announcement on you tube:
Steam:
https://youtu.be/x6K0Y74fX6A
Diesel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdlUSxGJKM8
Now that the Tsu-2 is released I am wondering what people think?? Not sure that I'd pay $40 more for a Tsu-2 vs an Econami.
Mark
I just hope that video was quickly thrown together with no configuration really of the loco because the slow speed operation was horribly jerky, and the chuffs got out of sync pretty quickly.
I noticed the exact same thing, Randy. It centered more around the sound features than any improved motor-control; not a real surprise.
I guess I'll remain in my wait-and-see posture until I see something the compares to either Loksound or TCS. As I've mentioned before, for me - motor-control comes first; sound - although cool - is a distant second.
rrinker I just hope that video was quickly thrown together with no configuration really of the loco because the slow speed operation was horribly jerky, and the chuffs got out of sync pretty quickly. --Randy
Yes, very unfortunate for them to throw a video together like that, I made an assumption that the loco may be brand new and not broken in yet, still they should have made sure they put this new decoder in the best light.
To do a flip flop, I just installed a ESO Loksound micro with power pack in a shay, I really wish I could get the sound to work......running to get a new speaker in a minute.
Like Randy and Tom, I have not been impressed by this video at all.
This is a much better production.
http://www.soundtraxx.com/tsu2_diesel_index_demo.mp4
Geared Steam This is a much better production. http://www.soundtraxx.com/tsu2_diesel_index_demo.mp4
RR Baron Geared Steam This is a much better production. http://www.soundtraxx.com/tsu2_diesel_index_demo.mp4 Assuming the whole video created by Ken Patterson, he should know better than to include a music track to compete with the decoder's sounds. RR Baron
Well based on his workload, who am I to criticize a guy who makes his living do these things.
Yes, the overall video production is better but it just confirms what I saw in the first clip:
Sorry, Soundtraxx. You still haven't won me over yet with your motor-control.