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Suitcase connectors? really?

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Suitcase connectors? really?
Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 9:04 AM

Looking at Youtube and everyone is proudly showing off their suitcase connectors on their DCC bus.  As a BMW airhead (60's-early 80's motorcycles) owner, I would be beaten by guys wearing full face helmets and protective gear all over their bodies if I put one of those on my bike. 

A vibrating motorcycle is not a stationary layout in a climate controled home, but are these things that popular and that reliable?

 

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

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Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 9:18 AM

Properly installed, they work fine. End of my Rant.

Rich

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Posted by fieryturbo on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 9:41 AM

BigDaddy

Looking at Youtube and everyone is proudly showing off their suitcase connectors on their DCC bus.  As a BMW airhead (60's-early 80's motorcycles) owner, I would be beaten by guys wearing full face helmets and protective gear all over their bodies if I put one of those on my bike. 

A vibrating motorcycle is not a stationary layout in a climate controled home, but are these things that popular and that reliable?

This is seriously a terrible comparison.  Those two environments couldn't be further apart.

However, I do agree that suitcase connectors seem like a really bad idea.  I'm about to the point where I'll be wiring my track, and I don't plan on using them - I'll be doing screw terminals.

I've never been a fan of hand-crimped IDC (including computer wiring).  There's just too large a possibility of error.

 

Julian

Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 9:42 AM

Begin my rant

 

They aint worth a plate of garbonso beans!

This is a model train layout, it is not an aircraft a boat or an automobile. You can leave the bus wires bare and just solder to them as kneaded

End o f LION RANT>

ROAR

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Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by betamax on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:12 AM

Yes, properly installed they are very reliable.

That means buying good quality ones (like the original Scotchloks), not cheap cost reduced copies, using the proper one for the wires you are connecting, and the proper tool to crimp the connection.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:56 AM

Yes, really.  I've used Scotchlok connectors on my last two layouts and they have worked great.  I even recycled nearly all of them from the last layout on the current one.

From what I see, most of the detractors fall into two categories:

  1. Those who have seen failures in automotive or aviation applications, or other environments where the connectors are subject to vibration and/or dust.
  2. Those who have used cheaper brands and/or have not had access to proper tools.

A connector that is ill suited to use in a plane, car or bike may be perfectly fine under a layout.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by fieryturbo on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:57 AM

Do Scotchloks work with solid core Romex?

Julian

Modeling Pre-WP merger UP (1974-81)

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Posted by RR_Mel on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 11:20 AM

For what it’s worth!
 
I spent my 50+ year career in radio communications and electronics.  Any press together or twist on connector will work if they are not disturbed.  Used in an environment where they are moved even occasionally can cause problems.  As mentioned above vibration is the worst condition.
 
Crimp-on connectors work very good if done properly.  Just make sure that no insulation is in the crimp and the wire is slightly showing through the connector then crimp with the proper tool, 100% long term reliability.
 
Working in Public Safety Communications the highest priority is reliability!  To a Police Officer his radio is his second line of defense, first being his gun.  A Fireman’s first defense is a hose with plenty of  water pressure, his second is his radio to get more water or help.
 
I built all of my layouts using the proven 100 year + Telco way for my wiring.  Individual wiring to every device uninterrupted between either soldered or screw connectors.  I use ‘D’ rings for wire management and the Telco tug to locate wiring method and that environment won’t work with press-on or twist-on connectors.
 
The only electrical failures I’ve had on my layouts in the last 50 years are devices, not one wiring failure.  Soldering can be and usually is a pain in the …. but it’s secure.
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 11:37 AM

 Part of the problem is that they don't make the most convenient sizes - #18 wire is I feel too big to be a feeder in HO, and the Scotchlocks that go down to #20-22 only take up to #14 on the bus side, which is fine if you have a smaller layout, but on a larger layout #12 bus lines are almost a requirement. The recommended solution by the suitcase proponents is make pigtails, using two suitcase connectors and a short length of in between wire size to it all matches the wire size requirements of the two different connectors. PER RAIL. 4 suitcase connectors per feeder drop pair? I'd go broke buying suitcase connectors. I've also seen the suggestion to just fold the wire over if it's a couple of sizes too small. Wait, I though this was supposed to be a reliable joint? Using the connector out of spec is NOT going to be reliable.

 Another argument pro is that the phone campany has been using them forever - no, phone line connectors are not the same as the Scotchlock run and tap connectors. Similar principle not but attached in the same way. Also phone lines carry very little current. As do all the various locations in computers wher einsulation displacement connectors are used, or used to be used, on things like the hard drive ribbon cables.

 I'm sure properly used as specifiec, there's nothing wrong with IDCs. But the Wun Hung Lo brand from China is just not going to cut it. 3M's design is patented and the knockoffs surely cut corners in the design and amount of metal in the blade that makes the connection.

 Me, I'm no monk, but I'm still a cheapskate, and like Lion I simply solder my feeders to the bus and move on. I've been soldering under layouts for well over 30 years and have never injured myself. I've never had a power loss on any of my layouts caused by a solder joint problem.

             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:07 PM

Quality IDCs (3M) are very reliable when used properly and when transitioning from one gauge wire to larger/smaller one.  I used them on my last layout to transition from my DCC power bus to my terminal strips and they worked great.  The power bus was 14ga and an 18ga wire went from the IDC to the terminal strip.  22ga went from the terminal strip to a track feeder.  No problems and I'd use them again without hesitation.

Tom

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Posted by rrebell on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:11 PM

I use the black Posi-taps. The one end goes on the buss side (buss has to be stranded wire) and can get up to 5 #22 solid wires into the other end. The realy nice things are not damage to the buss, at all, so can be moved or reused and you can lossen the other end and insert another wire when things change. Last these are aircraft aproved so if it is module type that geys moved, you are fine. I got mine on e-bay but the company sells bulk direct. They have other things like in-line fuse holders and other things, no soldering under my layout and you don't need a diagram as everything can be straight from track to buss (all color coded wire of course.

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 12:41 PM

Desiged for the auto industry. 

Rejected by the auto industry. Dead

Jim

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Posted by 7j43k on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:16 PM

I can't see how you can use suitcase connectors without having an extremely ugly wiring layout.  And I believe that an ugly wiring layout makes it much more difficult to analyze "electrical situations".  Generally, I use barrier strips for connection points:

 

The above are the style I grew up with.  They work best with lug connectors:

 

 

 

When the above NON-INSULATED crimp-on connectors are used with the PROPER tool, they will not come loose.  I strongly recommend against using the insulated versions, even though they are prettier and make it look like you know what you're doing.  They do not crimp on as reliably, and they contribute nothing.

 

There are also two "new" barrier strip styles.  This one doesn't need the lugs, as the wires go under the loose flat plates.  And there is a sorta cool but sorta useless (for us) plastic cover:

 

 

The other one is what folks seem to call the "European" one.  Even though it's not American, it's a pretty good idea.  Especially 'cause it's easy to cut them to size.  Instead of trying to find just the right one:

 

And when I am running wires between these barrier strips and various electrical elements, I route them carefully and neatly.  And label and record and color code most everything.

 

My first real job was doing military electronics assembly.  And I've been an electrical contractor most of my life.  I have a perhaps extreme approach to neatness in electrical wiring.

 

On the plus side, those suitcase connectors will likely be quite reliable IF YOU INSTALL THEM PROPERLY.

On the minus side, you can't conveniently disassemble them for testing purposes.  But, since you made no mistakes, why would that be necessary?

 

 

 

Ed

 

 

 

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Posted by Phoebe Vet on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:27 PM

My wiring training was in the US Navy.  You can use IDCs if you like but you will not find them on my layout.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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Posted by SouthPenn on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 1:51 PM

I have used those type connectors years ago. Vibration and moisture are their worst enemy. I avoid them like the plague now.

They might be fine on a layout, but why bother when we have much better solutions now.

South Penn
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Posted by betamax on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 3:59 PM

Insulated crimp on lugs are no problem when the proper tool is used.

https://www.dccwiki.com/Wiring_tools

The cheap crimpers they throw in a set with the lugs should just be tossed. For uninsulated lugs, proper crimping pliers are available from companies like Channelock. For the insulated ones, a number of companies supply them, they can also be very expensive depending on the brand.

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 4:20 PM

betamax
Insulated crimp on lugs are no problem when the proper tool is used.

 

But LIONS do not have the proper tool. That costs money. The Connectors cost money. I HAVE a good soldering Iron, and can build bare wire beese (plural of bus Smile ) I like. Terminals with screws are far too expensive give the size of my equipment. Besides, using a screwdriver is much more difficult on my fingers and wrists than a simple solder connection.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by NP01 on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 5:15 PM

With Lion and Randy here. my method, with which I have wired 16 blocks and a yard, now moving to 16 more blocks:

  1. Use a stripper to cut insulation at two spots 1/4 inc apart on the bus wire
  2. Use an exacting knife to cut out the insulation and expose the copper. Works well on both stranded and solid. 
  3. Wind a 1" long exposed piece of feeder around the exposed bus
  4. Just add solder. 

Best joint you can get. Low resistance. Low cost. Looks clean. You can use heat shrink tubing or insulating tape to cover. I use nothing or the latter in close-in spots. 

Hope this helps  

NP  

 

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Posted by BigDaddy on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 5:35 PM
Thanks guys, all good info. I am leaning toward soldering or terminal strips.

Henry

COB Potomac & Northern

Shenandoah Valley

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 7:08 PM

Don't let them scare you off.  Some well respected folks in the hobby use them with reliable long term results.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 7:41 PM

I wish Bob was still around but this will have to do.

cmrproducts
We used them on our club Lionel display (located in an old basement) and had the trackwork up for almost 10 years. We had use #12 stranded buss wires and #12 drop wires. The track we used was Gargraves and most of the #12 drop wires were soldered to the rails.

The IDC connectors were used to connect the drops to the buss wires. We had the proper Scotckloc connector for #12 wire and they worked well for 5 years.

We then began to notice that the trains would slow down on certain sections of track and were not sure why. An inspection of the wiring showed nothing wrong and in the process of checking the wiring the problems seemed to go away.

While this was OK it did not really explain why the problems even showed up. Then a different section of track began giving problems. We had the layout set up blocks using industrial toggle switches and it was designed to be able to have 2 different transformers available to run any given section of track. So the transformers were not the problem as either one would not make the track run any better.

It got so bad at the last we had to have the bad sections set on the other transformer set to a higher voltage just to keep the trains moving at the same speed section to section. Then on the forums someone stated that the potential problems existed where the metal blades came in contact with the wire and very minute amounts of corrosion would form on the IDCs.

This then explained why when we did our wiring inspections we seemed to correct the power loss but had not actually done anything except moving the wires around. By moving the wires we must have made good contact again by somehow breaking through the corrosion. I really could not see any of this in any of the connectors but then it probably was that very small amount.

We subsequently rebuilt the Lionel display at our club and we are NOT using the IDC connectors PERIOD ! We are soldering all connections.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

Jim

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Posted by NevinW on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 7:46 PM

I've used them on two layouts now and they have worked great.  Faster than the old methods.  I will never go back as long as they are available.  

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Posted by tstage on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:06 PM

Soo Line fan

I wish Bob was still around but this will have to do.

cmrproducts
We used them on our club Lionel display (located in an old basement) and had the trackwork up for almost 10 years. We had use #12 stranded buss wires and #12 drop wires. The track we used was Gargraves and most of the #12 drop wires were soldered to the rails.

The IDC connectors were used to connect the drops to the buss wires. We had the proper Scotckloc connector for #12 wire and they worked well for 5 years.

We then began to notice that the trains would slow down on certain sections of track and were not sure why. An inspection of the wiring showed nothing wrong and in the process of checking the wiring the problems seemed to go away.

While this was OK it did not really explain why the problems even showed up. Then a different section of track began giving problems. We had the layout set up blocks using industrial toggle switches and it was designed to be able to have 2 different transformers available to run any given section of track. So the transformers were not the problem as either one would not make the track run any better.

It got so bad at the last we had to have the bad sections set on the other transformer set to a higher voltage just to keep the trains moving at the same speed section to section. Then on the forums someone stated that the potential problems existed where the metal blades came in contact with the wire and very minute amounts of corrosion would form on the IDCs.

This then explained why when we did our wiring inspections we seemed to correct the power loss but had not actually done anything except moving the wires around. By moving the wires we must have made good contact again by somehow breaking through the corrosion. I really could not see any of this in any of the connectors but then it probably was that very small amount.

We subsequently rebuilt the Lionel display at our club and we are NOT using the IDC connectors PERIOD ! We are soldering all connections.

BOB H – Clarion, PA

Jim,

Perhaps the operative phrase here is "located in an old basement" in Bob's first line above.  Dank, dark, dusty, and/or unheated, etc. might have exacerbated the problem and aren't ideal for any layout.  So, if that is the condition of one's layout room then IDCs may indeed not the best choice.  My basement, OTOH, had a dehumidifier so it stayed dry year-round and I had no issues on my layout using IDCs.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:20 PM

NP01

With Lion and Randy here. my method, with which I have wired 16 blocks and a yard, now moving to 16 more blocks:

  1. Use a stripper to cut insulation at two spots 1/4 inc apart on the bus wire
  2. Use an exacting knife to cut out the insulation and expose the copper. Works well on both stranded and solid. 
  3. Wind a 1" long exposed piece of feeder around the exposed bus
  4. Just add solder. 

Best joint you can get. Low resistance. Low cost. Looks clean. You can use heat shrink tubing or insulating tape to cover. I use nothing or the latter in close-in spots. 

Hope this helps  

NP  

 

 

 The Ideal Stripmaster or equivalent wire stripper will do your steps 1 and 2 in one operation. That's what I use. Clamp over the area of bus I need to solder a feeder to, squeze, and it strips back an area of insulation right int he middle of a sold run of wire. Release the handles, move to the end of the feeder I need to solder on, and it strips the insulation off the end of the feeder. Rest of the process is the same.

 Best part is, if you use solid wire for feeders, it actually works fine (at least temporarily) without soldering. So you can test things, then go back and solder all the connections.

                    --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:24 PM

betamax

Insulated crimp on lugs are no problem when the proper tool is used.

https://www.dccwiki.com/Wiring_tools

The cheap crimpers they throw in a set with the lugs should just be tossed. For uninsulated lugs, proper crimping pliers are available from companies like Channelock. For the insulated ones, a number of companies supply them, they can also be very expensive depending on the brand.

 

 I have no problem with the basic crimping tool and insulated rings (I rarely use spades - they can fall off a loose screw. Rings can't). It's readily apparent when if the crimp is food or not, the crushed plastic insulation doesn't hide much. You can't really overdo it with those kind of connectors, the metal will only crimp until the wire is pressed as hard as it can. Still, insulated or not, I then fill up the crimp end with solder. I just hold the rin in a helping hands alligator clip, heat up the wire and terminal at the ring side, and feed solder in the back until it fills up. That wire is NEVER coming loose.

                         --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by wp8thsub on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 8:44 PM

tstage
Perhaps the operative phrase here is "located in an old basement" in Bob's first line above.  Dank, dark, dusty, and/or unheated, etc. might have exacerbated the problem and aren't ideal for any layout.  So, if that is the condition of one's layout room then IDCs may indeed not the best choice.  My basement, OTOH, had a dehumidifier so it stayed dry year-round and I had no issues on my layout using IDCs.

My train room is fully finished (insulated, drywalled, carpeted, climate controlled), so it's an environment compatible with IDCs  too.

Rob Spangler

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Posted by Mark R. on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 9:16 PM

A wrapped / soldered joint is going to be better over a mechanical joint any day ....

Mark.

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Posted by tomikawaTT on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:04 PM

My background is aircraft maintenance.  An aircraft maintainer who used ANYTHING that relies on nicking the wire for contact would be de-certified before he could get down off the maintenance stand.

My own electrical connections are of two types.  End connections are soldered unless the device comes with screw connectors as original equipment.  Intermediate connections are made at terminal blocks, nut-on-stud connectors with washers sandwiching individual wires (as many as six on a single stud.)  Everything is labeled and documented.  All wiring runs inside my steel-stud benchwork frame members, which provide me with perfect wiring runs.  They also allow me to put every connection right next to an aisleway, so I can work sitting in a comfortable chair with the connections below my eye level - and usually just above my belt buckle.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with electricals as bulletproof as I can make them)

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Posted by Bayfield Transfer Railway on Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:31 PM

I first saw suitcase connectors in 1972 at a Bell Telephone switching office.  They were used on all important circuits.  I figure if it's good enough for Ma Bell it's good enough for me.

But as mentioned above, spend the money to buy 3M Scotchloks and a real crimping tool.  Cheap tools, cheap result.

 

Disclaimer:  This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.

Michael Mornard

Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Wednesday, December 30, 2015 12:30 AM

I use the 3M connectors with solid 12 and 18 gauge wire.  I also have the 3M tool.

Easy to install and work well for me.

Good luck

Paul

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.

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