I have two loco's (A and B) in an advanced consist with newer QSI decoders in both. With CV19 I was able to get both running together with headlights and motor sound working on both, but now my bell and horn sounds do not work. If I turn CV19 back to 0, then all sounds and lights work, but no consist. What CV's do I need to change or adjust to get the bell and horn working?
Thanks
JRP
There are additional CV's to specify if the engine is head, tail or helper (mid) service. This will determine which loco makes which sounds and which one lights up how.
Look up CV21 and 22.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Which DCC system are you using?
Are you trying to manually set up the consist or are you letting the DCC system guide you through the consist programming?
Rich
Alton Junction
I'm using the Digitrax Zephyr DSC50 along with a PTB100 booster (required for some Tsunami's and QSI). I'm manually entering a two digit number in CV19 for both loco's in setting up the consist.
Why not use the Multiple Unit (MU) Operations feature of the DCS50?
It uses universal consisting, treating the lead loco as the TOP locomotive to control the entire MU. The Top locomotive will respond to the light and sound functions.
Otherwise, you will need to program values into CV21 and CV22 on each locomotive to enable or disable lights and sounds.
OK, makes sense. Thanks rich.
John
richhotrain Why not use the Multiple Unit (MU) Operations feature of the DCS50? It uses universal consisting, treating the lead loco as the TOP locomotive to control the entire MU. The Top locomotive will respond to the light and sound functions. Otherwise, you will need to program values into CV21 and CV22 on each locomotive to enable or disable lights and sounds. Rich
There are disadvantages to doing this. Mainly if he's using regulated throttle control the BEMF of the two engines will fight each other. When you program CV19 in consist mode, QSI will automatically notch down any automated backfeed on the motor so the two engines don't fight each other. This is the only decoder I know that will do that.
DigitalGriffin richhotrain Why not use the Multiple Unit (MU) Operations feature of the DCS50? It uses universal consisting, treating the lead loco as the TOP locomotive to control the entire MU. The Top locomotive will respond to the light and sound functions. Otherwise, you will need to program values into CV21 and CV22 on each locomotive to enable or disable lights and sounds. Rich There are disadvantages to doing this. Mainly if he's using regulated throttle control the BEMF of the two engines will fight each other. When you program CV19 in consist mode, QSI will automatically notch down any automated backfeed on the motor so the two engines don't fight each other. This is the only decoder I know that will do that.
Another disadvantage is if you use the command station MU functions, it uses a slot for each loco. For people who have a lot of consists that they keep together, this can be a major issue. The CV21/22 answer is a good soltution in many cases, but it can also be agravating sometimes. If you have a consist where you tend to switch lead units, then you have to reprogram CV21 and 22 everytime you switch them.
Another option is to just control the horn and bell separately from the speed and direction - when the engine is in an advanced consist it's functions will still respond to it's normal address if CV21 and 22 have not been programmed. With a single throttle, this would be aggravating because you would have to swicth back and forth between the consist address and the lead loco address; however, if you have two throttles you can have the consist selected on one and the lead loco on the other. If you happen to have a Digitrax DT series throttle, then you can have the consist selected on one side and the lead loco selected on the other side at the same time.
Well all, I got things working fine. Used CV21 and 22 after learning what the values should be to get my lights and horn. I wanted to stay with advanced because my club was going that way and having CV19 control the speed in the consist was good. Another problem though, I now have one loco (Soundtraxx) going in reverse (B unit). I think I read how to correct this, but can't find it. How do I get the second consist loco to go forward (again using advanced system)? Thanks again..
Subtract 1 from the existing value of CV29 on the engine that you want to run in the forward direction.
For example, if CV29 has a value of 35, change the value to 34.
DG and CSX mention disdvantages to using the Multiple Unit (MU) Operations feature of the DCS50. But why not take advantage of this technology instead of avoiding it?
JRPAnother problem though, I now have one loco (Soundtraxx) going in reverse (B unit). I think I read how to correct this, but can't find it. How do I get the second consist loco to go forward (again using advanced system)? Thanks again.
I'm not sure if you mean it is running in reverse when it should be running forward or if you are putting in the consist "backwards" and want it to run the same direction as the other locos. Regardless, if it runs correctly when not consisted, do not modifiy CV29. When you place a loco in an advanced consist, you can make it run in reverse of it's normal direction by programming 128 + the consist address in CV19.
richhotrain DG and CSX mention disdvantages to using the Multiple Unit (MU) Operations feature of the DCS50. But why not take advantage of this technology instead of avoiding it? Rich
Why would you use it in a situation where it would just cause you more work? For example, in JRP's situation every time he took the locos to the club he would have to program them into a consist and then reprogram them when done, by not using the MU function he programs them once and is done as long as these two are to remain in a consist.
CSX Robert Regardless, if it runs correctly when not consisted, do not modifiy CV29.
Regardless, if it runs correctly when not consisted, do not modifiy CV29.
Because CV29 does not control consist NDOT. CV19 does, by adding 128 to the consist number. If you change CV29, then when it is removed from consist it will run the wrong way.
Digitrax decoders also change BEMF when using CV19 consisting, which is why so many people suddenly have their nicely running locos run horribly in consist - the default setting completely turns off BEMF. I have YET to see two 'close enough' matched locos fight one another because the deocders have BEMF and they are consisted. The common motive power for my train at the club are a pair of Proto Geeps with TCS decoders (using BEMF, the auto-adjust BEMF is really good) with an Atlas Trainmaster with QSI sandwiched in between. I never bothered to check the QSI to see if it has the upgrade, or what mode it's in, I just set them all to the same address (too many people at the club have no clue and do too much gerfingerpoken on the one DT402 throttle to use proper consisting - heck once I watched my loco go streaking through the coal yard, which luckily had been emptied of cars for the daily "hey look, a 140 car train" show. Someone punched in my cab number for their loco, which wasn't even CLOSE, and when their loco didn;t move, cranked the throttle on full. This was my switcher which has a top speed of about 30smph so it didn;t take off too fast, but this is also why on the normal parking tracks in the yard, we have toggles to cut power). I run these three together constantly, and they do not fight one another, no one gets dragged along the rails. They run quite nicely together, BEMF and all. Before I traded it, I had an FT A unit with TCS and a B unit with Tsunami, never disabled BEMF, they were drawbar coupled, and they too ran fine, no skidding wheels or anything. No speed matching whatsoever, just hooked them up, same witht he other three.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I find this whole discussion interesting, to say the least.
I have an NCE PH-Pro 5 amp system. It provides Advanced Consisting, and all of this stuff is handled automatically and with ease.
Sure, I could set all of those CV values manually, but why bother when it can be done for you.
Unless there are some extra screens, I think all NCE does is just turn on everything. There's no way it can know what functions are used by a particular decoder.
Actually, it's more like they combine both forms of consisting. The TOP loco is added via command station aliasing so when you hit the horn button, it knows which loco to send the counds to. Since it already knows the first and last loco, plus all the in-between ones, that's why you cna reverse everything and make the former trailing loco the new top and the old top the new trailing, and drive off back the way you came.
Which makes me wonder - what about a situation like my 3 loco consist, where it's the middle on that has the sound decoder, not the TOP. If functions are sent to the TOP address, then the horn wouldn;t work. If function commands are sent to the consist address, it would work in this case (assuming you have CV21 and 22 set right), but then what if I have FOUR locos in my consist,
<non-sound>-<sound>-<sound>-<non sound>
WITHOUT manually setting CV21 and 22, how do I make only the second sound one make noise? It's neither TOP, nor the trailing unit. It has the same CV19 value as the others. The system has no way of knowing both those loco sin the middle have an F2 horn function, and can't just magically enable the horn on one unit and disable it on the other via CV21 and 22.
As soon as you try something that's not the way the manufacturer intended, you get the extra complexity. Normal Digitrax consisting can have some advantages over CV19, especially if you have one fo the full feature throttles. With two knobs, you can control speed and direction of the entire consist with one knob, and set the other one to the specific address of any loco in the consist to send sound commands.
Easiest fix is to simple reorder the consist so a sound loco is TOP. But in my case, the three locos were arranged that way whenever possible by the prototypical engineers because the Trainmasters were notoroiously rough riding and the Geeps were considered 'Cadillacs' so they would finagle it so a Geep was always lead and trailing loco so no matter which direction they had to operate in, they wouldn't have to ride the Trainmaster.
Randy, thanks, as always, your replies are informative.
I guess my problem with all of this is that I always use Advanced Consisting, and I don't mess with manually placing values in CV19, CV21, and CV22. All of my consists are matching pairs of locomotives, so they either all have sound or none of them have sound.
There is one exception, and that is a matching pair of Intermountain F3s, one with sound and one without sound. In that case, the sound equipped locomotive is the lead locomotive in the consist.