MRC Prodegy Squared issue

[EngineGuy]

I currently am operating a track configuration with reversing loops at each end of the main line. The reversing loops are each controlled by a PSX-AR, which appear to be operating properly. The trains will progress into, and Out of the loops without any hesitation. Occasionally, not every time, the MRC handheld controller will go into the "Save Data" mode, and will no longer control the layout. The trains will continue running. The only way to get the Handheld Controller to reset, is to disconnect the cable, and plug it back in. Control is then restored. When I contacted MRC, they told me that the Controller would go into the "Save Data" mode in the event of a short. I know that the auto reversers use a momentary short to initiate the autoreverse function, however this operation should not cause the problem with the Controller. I am not seeing any indication from the Base Station, or the PSX-AR units of a short. I have done the quarter test to insure the proper amount of feeders, and the recommended tests for the AR units. As I noted earlier, this issue does not occur every time the, train completes the run, but when it does occur, it appears to happen when one or the other AR units swithes. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

[jrbernier]

  The default trip setting for the PSX-AR is 3.81 amps - far above the 3.5 amp capacity of the MRC system.  Read the instructions included with your PSX-AR.  The J6 jumper settings allow you to to configure the unit for anywhere from 1.27 amps to 8.89 amps.   If J6-2 is connected to J6-1 and J6-4 to J6-3 is open, then the current trip is 1.27 amperes.    This should make the PSX-AR trip far below the capacity of your MRC system.

Jim

[EngineGuy]

Thanks Jim, I will change the settings and see what happens.

[EngineGuy]

I applied the jumpers to the J6-1 and J6-2, reducing the PSX-AR trip current to 1.27 amps. The situation has not changed. The train will make several trips through each loop and then while crossing one of the sets of gaps, the Hand Held Controller will indicate the Save Data mode and go brain dead while the train continues running.

[mrgstrain]

I also run the Advance Squared. I have 2 reverse sections. One controlled by an AR1 & the other by a PSX-AR and have had no issues what so ever. It does seem to indicate a short. Is it the same engine that cause's the problem? 

[EngineGuy]

The issue has occurred with all of my units, both diesel and steam. If it is a short, it does not show any indication on the base unit. The green status LED shows no change.

[rrinker]

 Also on the PSX-AR, enable the "Weak System Boost" option. This is suppsoed to be required only by low amp systems like the PowerCab but it really seems to be needed by all systems. The real purpose is to keep the inrush from a sound decoder from being sensed as a short.

       --Randy

[ruderunner]

Does the short happen when the locos are in the same spot?  I had a situation of wheels briding the gap between rails at the turnout frogs.  A drop of clear nailpolish fixed that just fine.

[EngineGuy]

The situation occurs when the locomotive crosses the gaps leading into or out of either reversing loop, when the polarity switch occurs. As noted earlier, it does not happen every time. The short that momentarily occurs is required for the AR unit to function. I am going to implement the suggestion to turn on the "Weak System Boost". I will post the result.

[EngineGuy]

I enabled thr "Weak System Boost" function, and the issue is still present. I did notice that the situation, when it does occur, happens when the train leaves the PSX-AR controlled loop, but not when entering the loop. The biggest issue is that the Handheld controller will go to the "Save Data" mode and has no control of the trains. I cannot reestablish control until I unplug the cable from the handheld unit and then plug it back in. I would think that the handheld unit should recover on its own. The Prodigy Manual does not address this, so I do not know if this is considered proper operation.

[CSX Robert]

You're not running trains that are longer than your reversing section, are you?

[EngineGuy]

All of the trains are shorter than the loops.

[selector]

Are your gaps at either end of the controlled/reversed section offset by about 1/8" across from each other?  They should be.

-Crandell

[rrinker]

 And all feeds inside the insualted section come from the PSX, and all feeds outside the insualted section do not, right? Just one feeder, not even a pair of them, on the wrong sides of the gaps can cause wierd issues.

           --Randy

[EngineGuy]

At first, the gaps were in line with each other. As part of my trying to figure this issue Out, I revised the gaps to a staggered configuration. I also am sure that my feeders are all correct, the loops are fed only by the PSX-AR units, and the main is fed directly by the MRC unit.

[rrinker]

Loops? As in more than one? They aren;t next to each other, are they, such that there is somethign liek this:

<track fed from MRC>---\<gaps>\--<track fed by PSX-AR>---\<gaps>\--<track fed by second PSX-AR>---

this will cause problems, you don't want two reversers back to back.

Assuming things aren't configured liek this, you mention the loco runs fine entering the loop, and it only has this problem when existing. Can you enter the loop from either side? I'm thinking of a traditional reverse loop where the track from the diverging side of the turnout loops back around onto the straight side of the same turnout - if you ahev this kind of loop, can you enter in either direction without a problem, or does it only work if you enter on one side or the other?

          --Randy

[EngineGuy]

The loops are not next to each other, they are at either end of a main line. The loops can be entered from either direction, and the situation, when it does occur, will happen when leaving the loop and the AR switches. If the Handheld would recover on its own, without having to unplug, then plug back in, this woud not be a significant issue. But, until I can get the Handheld to recover, I can't control any of the trains, which continue to run, including the 'panic stop' button. (#Crash, Derailment, Bad things)

[EngineGuy]

Just a note, I want to thank all of the people that have been responding to this thread. Your ideas are greatly appreciated.

[rrinker]

 The wierd thing is that indication. No idea what that means, and it's not in the manual. You might ge tlucky and MRC tech support might know what it means, but I'm not holding my breath.

 What happens if you do somethign liek set a quarter on the tracks? Does it just trip teh breaker, or does it go into the saving memory antics as well? It sounds more like this is an issue with the command station than with the autoreverser. You can simulate the reverse function with a couple of jumpers - first jump over one set of gaps (train entering reverse loop), then remove those jumpers, wait a few seconds, throw the switch, and jumper the exit gaps. The PSX-AR should reverse polarity and that's it, no errors on the throttle screen.

 I'm assuming you have both rails gapped at both the entrance and exit of the loop (4 cuts total), so the type of turnotu it is shouldn't matter. You ARE lining it the correct way for the train to exit the loop? If not and it happens to be a power routing turnout like an Electrofrog it might cause a short that reversing the loop won;t fix so the PSX gives up - bt even then, it should just switch off power, the PSX-AR is also a breaker and if it fails to correct the short by reversing polarity it shoudl just shut down that section fo track and nothing should happen to the command station.

         --Randy

 

[EngineGuy]

The indication, "Sa Da" which the MRC people told me means "Save Data", pops up either when the Handheld Controller is either disconnected, or when a short occurs. I have jumpered the track, both in the reverse loops and the main line. When I jumper the loops, the PSX-AR units will trip Out, but the main unit will not, when I jumper the main, the system will shut down. In every case, the Handheld unit will go to the "Save Data" mode until I unplug then plug in the cable. It appears that a current surge, necessary to trigger the AR function, but not sufficient to cause a "short circuit protection event", is resulting in the Handheld Controller issue. It is frustrating in that the issue does not happen evey time. I will try to contact the MRC people to see if they have any ideas.

[rrinker]

 Is the cab plugged right in toi the base or do you have extra cables and panels? Try plugging right in to the base. Also, does your model have the switch that sets for like 1-4 cabs and the other position for 5+ cabs or something? Is it on the lower setting?

          --Randy

 

[EngineGuy]

The cab is plugged directly into the Base Unit, I do not currently have any remote panels. the Cab Selection switch is set for the low number so it is not looking for more cabs.

[ruderunner]

I've got a Prodigy Express system.  The SaDa message come up when I have a short and I either have to power down or unplug the cab.  This, while inconvenient, sounds like normal operation for the system.

In the meantime, what about resetting CV's to lock out DC operation?  That may help the runaway situation.  Note: I haven't tried that yet, I've been able to track and fix my shorts so far.  But I'm planning on it when I go through and speed matchmy locos.

As a temprary fix/test, would you be against installing some switches in place of the reversers?  Just thinking of eliminating a variable.