DC or DCC

[csxns]

Kyle

will try to get DC locomotives that are DCC ready.

Same here but I think I will never go to DCC but who knows.

[Kyle]

I have decided to stay with DC for now. The layout I am planning is small (so no wiring different blocks), and I will most likely only have on engine running on it. I think I will upgrade to DCC when I have more space and can build a large layout. For now, I will try to get DC locomotives that are DCC ready.

[BRAKIE]

If you want a basic DCC system then NEC Powercab will fill that bill street prices vary but,I've seen them as low as $119.00 the drawback is you can run 2-3 HO locomotives.

The MRC Tech 6 and hand held throttle can operate up to 6 DCC locomotives street prices vary but,I have around $125.00 in mine.

The thing is you don't need a lot of locomotives for a small layout and you can buy  decoders as low as $19.95..

My advice if you plan on running more then one train then NEC Powercab or the Tech 6 with handheld throttle will work.You need the handheld for running more then 1 DCC engine.

Now,if you are planning on running a single engine with DCC/ sound then the Tech 6 is you better choice-street around $79-89.00.

 

[fwright]

Kyle

I have a Athern DC train set along with an extra DC locomotive. I see that DCC is also more expensive than DC to buy, so is the DCCI worth the extra cash, or should I just get more DC locomotives and rolling stock.

What you don't address is the type of layout you have and the type of operations you prefer.

From operating with both DC (at home) and DCC (at the club), my answer would vary with the type of layout and the type of operations, particularly where cost is important.

I would favor DC (for cost and simplicity) where some or all of the following are true:

• you operate your layout by yourself, and you prefer to run one locomotive at a time
• you don't care about having sound in your locomotives.  Some avoid sound for cost reasons, others avoid sound because of the sound quality, and others prefer to weight their locomotives to the max instead of installing speakers and enclosures.
• if you operate multiple trains simultaneously, they are well separated in time and/or space.  Multiple trains are not trying to share the same track in quick succession.
• you are operating from a dispatcher or tower operator perspective where you are controlling the track, and indirectly controlling the individual train.  In this case, DC block control philosophy aligns well with prototype practice.
• you prefer to build your own control systems tailored to meet your desires and situation.

OTOH, DCC would be my choice for the following situations:

• you want sound in your locomotives
• you have multiple engineers operating their trains independently.  They are responsible for providing their own clearance from other trains (typical unscheduled ops on a club or large layout).
• you operate a small-to-medium home layout with 2 trains running simultaneously by yourself.  Typically, one train is doing continuous running and the other is switching or standing.
• you prefer to buy your electronics "ready-to-run" or "plug and play".  Optimizing a DC control system for more than a simple layout or single train operation takes some forethought and planning.  That's why converting a DC layout to DCC at a later date tends to be much easier than the reverse.

From a cost perspective, if you will want DCC down the road, you will save in the long term by going with DCC right from the beginning.  But you will have smaller up-front costs staying with DC for the present.

my thoughts and experiences, your choices

Fred W

[zstripe]

Well one thing is for certain, You can switch a properly wired DC layout to DCC,use,as long a you didn't use common rail wiring, a lot easier,than to switch a DCC to DC,cab control.

Cheers,

Frank

[hornblower]

Having used both DC Cab Control and DCC on small layouts, I would conclude that DCC is a far better way to operate.  

With cab control, it is difficult for a single operator to run two trains since you have to constantly stay ahead of both trains to make sure that the next control block is switched to the appropriate power pack. I found that all I did was throw toggle switches and really couldn't relax and enjoy the trains.  For even the most basic cab control system you will need to purchase another power pack plus toggle or slide switches (Atlas) for every control block on your layout plus the wiring between the power packs, toggle switches and track blocks.

With DCC, there are no control blocks to switch and it is easy to toggle between two (or more) trains using a single DCC throttle unit.  Yes, a simple DC cab control system will be cheaper than a DCC starter system but I find the advantages far outweigh the cost difference.  Besides, a large and more complex DC cab control system can get pretty expensive since you need a separate power pack for every single train in operation plus expensive rotary switches for every control block plus all of the far more complex wiring.

A good DCC starter system with a second throttle unit can be purchased for between $250 and $400 depending on the brand and features of the second throttle.  However, two operators could easily run four separate trains simultaneously (assuming there is sufficient track length on the layout).  Add a fleet price decoder to each of the four locomotives (4 X $15-$20 = $60-$80) and we find that a basic DCC system will run you between $310 and $480.

In comparison, a basic DC cab control system capable of running four trains simultaneously will require four power packs (4 X $40-$50 = $160-$200).  Assuming that such a layout could get away with as little as eight control blocks, you will also need eight rotary switches with at least four contact positions (8 X $5-$10 = $40-$80).  At this point, we are looking at $200-$280 for a DC cab control system that can run four trains so yes, there is a definite price advantage to DC.

You need larger gauge wire for a DCC bus plus smaller wire for feeders.  The DC cab control system requires two wires between each power pack and each rotary switch plus two wires from each rotary switch and its corresponding track block.  Let's call the wiring costs a wash but I'd rather wire a DCC layout as it is a lot less work.

What the price difference does not tell you is that a model train layout equipped with DCC is far more fun to operate.  You can run multiple trains with multiple "powered" locomotives in each train.  You can run your trains anywhere at anytime, at any speed and in any direction without having to worry about control blocks.  You can run accessories from the DCC throttle unit.  You don't need control panels.  Its fun to be able to turn the loco headlight on and off when you want to, and not have to wait until the power pack finally provides enough voltage to turn the headlight on.  Its nice to have lighted cars and not worry about the lights draining too much power away from the locomotive.  In essence, the trains just run more like the prototype using DCC.  

Expanding a DC cab control layout will require additional power packs, rotary switches with additional contact positions and a lot more wiring.  Expanding a DCC system usually requires only additional throttle units.  Yes, eventually you might need power boosters to provide sufficient power to all power districts of a DCC layout but similar power demands would require more sophisticated power packs on the DC layout, too.

The best way to decide would be to find both cab controlled and DCC layouts that you can visit and (hopefully) operate.  Which layout is easier and more fun to operate?  What kind of headaches did the layout owner run into while wiring the layout?  What would they do differently were they to start again?

Finally, read all you can on the subject and pick people's brains.

[CNSF]

I used to think DCC wasn't worth it on small layouts, but even small layouts can have track plans that allow for the operation of two trains at once. Yes, DCC is more expensive, but here's my list of what you get for the money: - independent control of more than one loco at a time without all the hassles and limitations of the DC multiple-block solution (I've built and used both and believe me, it's no contest) - always-on track power, for headlights and passenger car lighting - ability to automate all your turnouts and control them from a handheld throttle rather than a fixed control panel - much simpler layout wiring all around - better for sound-equipped locos - ability to turn headlights on/off at will, plus other effects such as dimming them when passing another train as per prototype practice - ability to program locomotives which normally operate at different speeds to match each other, so you can run them together in consist - ability to operate your layout from anywhere in the room, or even another room, using radio throttles (but again, these aren't cheap) As others have said, you're the best judge of how much these features are worth to you.

[Texas Zepher]

Kyle

I have a Athern DC train set along with an extra DC locomotive. I see that DCC is also more expensive than DC to buy, so is the DCCI worth the extra cash, or should I just get more DC locomotives and rolling stock.

There are other options.   Why do you want more locomotives and rolling stock?  Why are you even thinking about a DCC system?   You could buy neither and save the $.

What I am saying is there has to be some motivation for you asking this question.   Have you reached the point in the hobby where you are thinking it would be nice to have two trains running independently at the same time?  Have you become tired or bored with your existing locos and rolling stock?  Or is it just a "trendy" thing you have seen others talking about?   Some people can't stand not to have the latest flashy techno telephone or i-Gizmo. Or one of a hundred other reasons.....

Figure out why you are asking the question and the answer might be obvious.  Or you might figure out that this isn't even the right question.

-----------------------

Personally I like having constant power to the tracks that DCC provides so that my locomotive headlamps can always be on even when the locos aren't moving.  Then there are the caboose lamps and lighted passenger car interiors without needing train in motion or a battery on board.  To me this alone is worth the cost of a DCC system.  Sure beats (in quality and cost) the old high frequency power generators we used to have to have to do that function.

[tstage]

Kyle,

Is your inquiry in regards to DC or DCC?

You can get a very good decoder for as little as $15.  The MRC 1370 Railpower is simple and quite good and can be had for $40-$50.  If you hunt around on eBay, you can usually find them discounted for as low as $25-$30.

If you're not going to go DCC, don't bother with purchasing and installing a decoder in your locomotive(s) UNLESS...you're planning on running it on another layout that has DCC.  Most current decoders have the capacity to detect whether a layout is operating on DC or DCC and will automatically adjust accordingly.  Even so, I generally keep my decodered locomotives away from DC.

If by the term "power pack" you mean a DCC command station/booster, good ones will run you $150 and up.  If you want just a "decent" one, the Bachmann E-Z Command would fit the bill.  However, I wouldn't pay more than $30-$40 for one.

When I was first determining whether I wanted to go with DCC back in 2005, Kyle, I purchased a Bachmann E-Z Command for $53 and enjoyed it for a year.  It's a basic, no-frills DCC system and does what it does pretty well.  The handheld throttle is the command station and booster and is about 5 x 7" is size.  Along with a control knob and reverse button, the E-Z Command has 9 DCC address slots and allows you to control lights (F0) and up to 8 sound functions (F1-F8).  It also has one (1) DC address slot so you can run a DC locomotive on your layout.

Kyle, if you are just wanting to get your feet wet with DCC - without spending much money, the E-Z Command is a viable option.  Again, I wouldn't pay very much for one.  You could even consider a "pre-owned" one to reduce cost.

After my year trial period with the E-Z Command, I went with a better starter DCC system that would allow me to program a decoder's CVs (configuration variables).  You don't need to program CVs to enjoy DCC.  It just allows you to utilize and optimize the full potential of a decoder.

Kyle, hopefully the above has answered a few of your questions and, perhaps, ones you hadn't thought of.

Tom

[Kyle]

How much is a decent decoder and a decent power pack? I also have a proto 1000 series locomotive.

[BATMAN]

Don't make up your mind until you have spent at least a few minutes running DCC. Get an invite to someones house if possible. That's the best way to experience it properly. If that can't happen then train stores or train shows are good places to give it a try.

If you tells us approximately where you live you might get an invite from someone close by. I am about an hour SE of Vancouver if that helps.

[zstripe]

Kyle,

Since you say it is a DC train set,,you more than likely will want to purchase a better power pack if you would want to expand into a larger layout,,,,,,so if I were you I would do a lot of research on DCC system's,how much you have to invest for a decent one verses, a new DC power pack and so forth,,a lot of your decisions are going to be how far,are you going to get involved with a layout..A train set power pack,has it's limits,as to how much power you are going to need,for what your plans are...Many answers given already are spot on,,,,,Again its your call,,you only know what you would like to do..

Cheers, 

Frank

[BroadwayLion]

LION uses DC analog automation. Eight trains run by LPPs.

LION runs the railroad (from the interlocking tower) not the trains.

ROAR

[EMD.Don]

It really comes down to you and what your future goals are in the hobby. How much do you/can you invest into the hobby? Is this a fleeting interest in model trains or a hobby that you see yourself pursuing well into the future? In terms of a layout, do you see a rather simple plan or do you have aspirations for a larger and more complex layout? As others have already pointed out, do you have a desire for sound, easier multiple locomotive control? Answers to questions such as these can help you make a more informed decision as to go/stay DC or switch to DCC. Both systems are good, you can have hours of enjoyment by using either system. You can hear from everyone here as to the benefits of our chosen method of train control, but the bottom line it comes down to what system best suits/meets your needs. 

FWIW...I use DCC on my HO layout and my Son uses cab control (cab A and cab B) DC on his N Scale layout...and we have fun operating both layouts .

Happy modeling and good luck!

Don.

[tstage]

As far as DC or DCC: If you plan on only operating one locomotive at a time on your layout then stick with DC, as DCC doesn't really offer you an advantange.  However, if sound and/or multiple locomotives working independently appeals to you, DCC is definitely worth considering.

Tom

[Train Modeler]

YOu asked our input on should you go to DCC basically, my answer is yes for lots of reasons.   My preference is Digitrax, but NCE is good too.

Richard

[richhotrain]

Kyle

I have a Athern DC train set along with an extra DC locomotive. I see that DCC is also more expensive than DC to buy, so is the DCCI worth the extra cash, or should I just get more DC locomotives and rolling stock.

Is DCC worth the extra cash?

You tell us.

You can always just continue with getting more DC locos and convert later to DCC.

Rich

[MisterBeasley]

It's a personal choice.  Some like it, some don't.  I'm personally a big fan of DCC.

It appears from your low locomotive count that you are just starting out.  That's the easiest tiem to transition to DCC, because you won't have a large fleet to convert.  Wiring a layout for DCC is generally easier than for DC, because you don't need blocks and kill-switches to run more than one engine at a time.

If you like sound engines, DCC is the way to go.  If you're not familiar with sound engines, you should visit a train show, club or shop and listen to them.

[Kyle]

I have a Athern DC train set along with an extra DC locomotive. I see that DCC is also more expensive than DC to buy, so is the DCCI worth the extra cash, or should I just get more DC locomotives and rolling stock.