Hi all, do dummy engines still exist? I have never seen them anywhere that I buy stuff online. Main reason for the questions is I am building a HO layout and will be using DCC for power/control. If I want to run a train with more than 1 engine will I have to use multiple DCC controlled engines paired together? It seems doing it this way can get rather expensive using multiple sound decoder engines.
thanks
Dummy engines were invented so that people could have a longer train for less money. You would think that the same issues apply today, but they do not. Look at if from the manufacturer's viewpoint. Why would they sell a dummy for $20 when they can sell the real thing for $120. The motor, trucks and PC board are not all that expensive for the return that they give the manufacturer.
Besides which, people today are made of money, and do not worry about things like cost.
Gee, I still pinch pennies until the scream... but today people seem to think nothing of spending $80 bucks. Heck it costs that much money to put gas in the car. How hard can it be to buy a locomotive that costs no more than two tanks of gas.
Not that I ever buy gas, all of our cars are gassed up for us every morning from the pump behind our garage, and that is filled by the oil company when ever we call for more. Only time I have to check the fuel gauge is if I take out a car that just came in from a trip.
Oh well, you get the idea!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Bowser still has dummies for their F units, both A and B. So you can build an A-B-B-A lashup with just 1 or two powered units. Nice thing about the dummies is they still have metal wheels, so you can attach wires for power pickup and parallel it with the powered units for absolutely bulletproof power pickup, or use the huge internal space of the dummy for a really big speaker and enclosure for a sound decoder.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
If you think about it, a dummy engine is only missing the motor, drive shafts and truck gearing - a very small cost to the manufacturer in terms of parts. With todays engines, you are paying for all those visual details on the outside.
Back in the old blue box days, a powered engine could be had for $20 to $25 and a dummy for around $10. That $10 to $15 difference was the lacking cost of the drive.
In todays market of $100 to $150 engines, knock off $20 to $25 (inflation ? ;) ) for the motor and an assortment of plastic drive components, do you really think you would sell many dummy engines for $80 to $130 ??? Once you reach that point, you may as well kick in the extra few bucks. If you really want a dummy, remove the motor and drive to power or fix something else !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
It was hard for me to find dummy RDCs to go with my new Proto 1000 RDC. I finally got a pair of Athearn BBs with motors removed on eBay for $20 which I thought was great ... Only to realize that the Athearn BB units were the wrong color (expected) and the wrong length (not expected). They might become my first weathering candidates.
I wish the US prototype had passenger trains with engines on both sides like European trains. That would make turning trains easy and create need for a lot of dummy engines. Amtrak trains with p42s on both sides will look good! Alas they don't do that except for a couple places.
NP.
You will not find a lot of dummy units being built these days. I have a couple of them, but they are ancient Athearn blue-box engines. I've got 2 that were originally powered, rubber-band drive engines, too. The motors had gone, and they were not worth converting.
You'd might as well get a powered unit. To save a bit, just get a DC model and add a motor-only decoder, and consist it with a sound engine.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
NP01 I wish the US prototype had passenger trains with engines on both sides like European trains. That would make turning trains easy and create need for a lot of dummy engines. Amtrak trains with p42s on both sides will look good! Alas they don't do that except for a couple places.
...Why would it? If I ever get the funds to finish filling out my Capitol Limited with those ridiculously expensive Superliners, it still needs two (sometimes three) P42s in the lead. It needs two, period, regardless of the location in the train.
You could do a prototype Amtrak Hiawatha train with a dummy - one end is usually a de-motored F40PH 'cabbage' with a P42 on the other end. After watching 2 and taking a third, it seems the F40 is on the Chicago end most of the time.
You can check E-Bay for cosmetically good locos at ridiculous prices - some of which are listed as basket cases with bad drives. They probably won't be in your favorite colors, but you might get lucky.
This is a route which I, personally, will never travel. My only dummy loco (a 762mm gauge 0-4-2T) is scheduled to be stuffed and mounted on a pedestal in front of the Haruyama station, when I build Haruyama.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - slowly)
Use one powered/sound engine,dummie out a second non sound engine (cheaper).When you need more power put the guts back in the dummy.
On ebay I often see AA or AB units listed as one powered, the other not. I think the thing is that there aren't a lot of other type locos that are built as dummies.
Have a couple from back in the 70's. Bachmann's that are weighted and roll freely.
Good luck,
Richard
Back in the hey day of BB and dummies, DC power packs were typically capable of 1 - 2 amps. BB engines were high current motors, which could pull 0.4 - 0.5 amps each. So if you had a lower capacity pack you could only run a couple of engines. Using dummy's allowed more locomotives in each train.
Later, Atlas, Roco, Kato, Stewart and others became available. The lower current draw of 0.1 - 0.2 amps each allowed more engines to be used with the same power packs. So dummies lost some of their appeal.
Personally, I do not like them. My layout is small and I typically run 2-3 locos per train. So I really have no need for them.
Jim
rrinker You could do a prototype Amtrak Hiawatha train with a dummy - one end is usually a de-motored F40PH 'cabbage' with a P42 on the other end. After watching 2 and taking a third, it seems the F40 is on the Chicago end most of the time. --Randy
The Amtrak Cascades (Portland-Vancouver) had a Talgo consist with a F40 on one end and a cabbage on the other. Unfortunately they had Talgo replace the consists and now a very ugly cab car replaced the cabbage. The power end is a p42.
Broadway Limited just announced the Baldwin RF16s (again) and the A-B set includes an unpowered B unit so the practice of including a dummy is alive and well in 2013, um- I mean 2014 when we "might" actually get to see them! Although BLI has been doing a much better job IMHO of keeping to their release dates a little better...
http://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon2baldwinsharknose.aspx
I hope they make a powered chassis available since I like to have all my units "on-line" not dead-in-tow!
Ed
ED,
Just my guess,,,,the B-unit,more than likely,probably has the same chassis as the A-unit..
Cheers,
Frank
I completely agree, Frank. I have quite a few Life-Like E-6, 7 & 8 B units that were former dummies that I put in A-unit powered chassis, not to mention the Stewart FTs and F-7s, and a few PA's as well.
I see BLI does offer a powered/sound B unit but in the A-B set the B unit is a dummy.
These Sharknoses probably won't be produced in the volume that the Stewart/Bowser, Life-Like, Athearn et.al. engines were so I had better just get a few powered Bs right from the start.
Thanks for your reply, Ed
My sense is that the manufacturers stopped producing dummies because they weren't selling well.
My LHS guys always convinced me to buy only powered units because they were weighted better and had a much higher resale value.
My most recent purchase of dummies was an ABBA consist of BLI Bluelines. The B units are dummies and way too light for the consist. I had to add a ton of weight to match the A units.
Rich
Alton Junction
I have several dummy units i purchased on Ebay cheap. Some were powered units i converted to dummy.
I run a lot of DC only sound. No problem running one power unit and 1 or 2 dummies with them.
With both steam and diesel dummies you can add one in the middle or end of the train as a helper without speed matching. They run with anything on the track.
LION has some Atheran A-A Alco PA-1s, they are connected with draw bars, and are both powered.
LION also has some Atheran A-B-A EMD F7s, these too are connected by draw bars, the "A" units are powered, the "B" units are not, but the trucks on the B units have had the plastic wheel sets removed, and the better sets from powered locomotives (sans the gears) installed for increased power pickup.
They work good, but no longer fit on my layout. They will become part of a static display.
For other locomotives, I may pull the motors out and use them to upgrade the power on my subway cars.
I my swap out a powered truck from one locomotive, replacing it with a trailer truck, and put the powered truck in what was a dummy unit and installing a motor. Some of my trains have one power car, others two, one of the two power units is giving me the most trouble. I may pull those motors out and install prime movers from other equipment.
Anyone remember the MR cartoon with the guy with the black eye, saying "Hey, all i said was 'let me see that Geep dummy'?"
One case where we definitely do NOT want a comma!
Jeff K If I want to run a train with more than 1 engine will I have to use multiple DCC controlled engines paired together?
It seems doing it this way can get rather expensive using multiple sound decoder engines.
I have a number of 'dummy' locomotives. Most of them are B-units in A/B F7 sets and PAs. Most of them have sound decoders installed. The exceptions are my E7/8s where the sound decoders are in the A-units.
In the Geeps and other hood units, I usually install a sound decoder in only one locomotive in the set.
I don't have any 'dummy' steam engines. All of them are powered. Most of my steam engines came with sound, BLI, Athearn, Bachmann, Proto. Those that were not factory equipped with sound, I converted.
I find the B-unit 'dummy' handy for carrying a sound decoder. With metal wheels installed and electrical coupling to the A-unit/s sound stutter is virtually eliminated and the A's can still be run separately without sound.
Dummy locomotives, F's and E's, will probably always have a place on my railroad. I'm always on the lookout for serviceable units in my preferred roads.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
You can find many dummy locos on EBAY however many need to be assembled as far as handrails. Seems many sellers on EBAY think dummy locos are worth as much or more than a powered Athearn Blue Box.