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Track electrical issue

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Track electrical issue
Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 5, 2013 2:33 PM

Finally finished my lay-out( 6 months in the making I travel allot) and when I connected the power supply the locomotives did not run. I had EZ-track which I used (took the bed off) and flex track. All connections were soldered with electrical solder. I soldered the wire connections directly to the track then I tried a track which is in the layout with the plug connector too, both did not work. Trying to trouble shoot. I tried all 3 EZ command controls and the only thing that was different was all three power lights were blinking fast?Thank never happened before. manual did not help either.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

 

Paul

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Posted by cacole on Monday, August 5, 2013 3:16 PM

We need to see a track plan in order to know what might be wrong.

If your track is nothing but a single line running in a loop, there's no reason it should be shorted provided you have only one set of power leads.  If you have more than one set, you may have crossed the wires.

Any crossovers from one line to another through turnouts?   A reverse loop?  Anything but a single loop of track could have introduced an electrical short.

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Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 5, 2013 3:44 PM

My track plan is a 12 x 4 oval with (2) remote turn outs dissecting the middle with a bridge and the other (2 remotes) are 90 degrees going into a rail yard and coal plant both ending with bumpers.

Just got back into trains after 25 years. stupid question my remote turnouts are not wired yet, this should not matter?

 

Thanks

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Posted by Mark R. on Monday, August 5, 2013 4:32 PM

Based on your "dissecting" verbiage, I'd say you have created a reversing section.

Try disconnecting the dissecting track and see if your problem goes away.

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by peahrens on Monday, August 5, 2013 4:45 PM

Be sure any track end bumper that is all metal (such as Tomar) is isolated with insulated rail joiners on bot rails.  These are direct shorts if connected with metal joiners to both rails.

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 5, 2013 4:50 PM

Does your dissecting oval look something like this?

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul1261 on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 2:06 PM

yes it does

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 2:57 PM

Then, you have a reversing section, a section of track where reverse polarities meet causing a short.

You need to gap this section of track at both ends, and reverse polarities with some form of switch.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul1261 on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 3:08 PM

Thanks Rich

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Posted by richhotrain on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 4:04 PM

Paul,

Are you operating in DC or DCC?

Rich

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Posted by Paul1261 on Thursday, August 8, 2013 8:49 AM

Rich,

DCC ,however I tried both DCC & DC locomotives that I have and both power packs. No power. I originally started with EZ-Track and the remote turnouts w/o the wiring which was great in tight spots. bad thing was I could not can the radius on the track I required for the layout so I took apart the EZ-Track,or least the ones that did not break added Flex track and started new. I took a magnifying glass and check every connector, solder joint, vacuum any debris...

 

Now I wish just stayed with the EZ-track it worked!. Received tips on how to weather the bed and to build -up the area around the track to give it the right proportions with the scenery & buildings. More money wasted.

 

any ideas?

Thanks again

 

Paul

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Thursday, August 8, 2013 11:00 AM

The reverse loop is the issue.  Not the track.

You need to gap the ends of the reversing section, and put in a switch or an autoreverser to make it work.  It's not hard once you understand it.

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, August 8, 2013 4:10 PM

Paul, if your track plan matches that track diagram that I drew, then you have created a reverse loop section of track.  You need to gap the ends of the divergent track on each of those two turnouts.  Then, install an auto-reverser or a DPDT switch that you can throw manually in order to match polarities inside that reversing section of track.

Give us a holler if that doesn't make sense to you.

Rich

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Posted by Paul1261 on Friday, August 9, 2013 7:59 AM

Hi Rich,

 

Just realized this thanks for your help.

 

Paul

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Posted by gatrhumpy on Friday, August 9, 2013 10:02 AM

If the light is blinking fast there is a short circuit somewhere. Do you have a wye or a reverse loop?

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Posted by Paul1261 on Saturday, August 10, 2013 8:53 AM

Hi Rich,

 

I attached a auto-reverse switch where I get most of my stuff

 

Automatic Reversing Unit - HO-Scale

Product Number: PRL525

Manufacturer: Peerless Industries

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Posted by Paul1261 on Saturday, August 10, 2013 8:54 AM

 Rich

Part II

  •   Product Information

Product Features

Automatically reverses train   direction without the need for track switches, optical sensors, special   lights or other devices. Operates on any 12V DC power supply. Unit is less   track. Can be used for automatic single or multitrack point-to-point   operation, a wall or bookcase mini-layout or display track for your favorite   locomotive or a test or break-in track. Can be used to automatically operate   a multitrack logging

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Posted by Paul1261 on Saturday, August 10, 2013 8:56 AM

 

Hi Rich Part3

 

 

This Selector is an Electrical   Control Device Designed for Layouts of Any Scale by Atlas Model Railroad.

Product Features

  •   This control provides the simplest   way to wire and control tricky reverse loops, wyes, and turntables.
  •   It has reversing switches for two   mainline cabs plus a switch, selectable by either cab, for directional control   on reversing
  •   loops, and so on.
  •   Cab Switches (Red--for Cab A and   Cab B).
  •   Cab Selector Switch (Green).
  •   Direction Switch (Gray).
  •   Couples with #215 Selector (atl215)--not provided in package.
  •   Instructions provided on package.

Product Specifications

  •   Atlas Product Number: 220
  •   Thanks

 

Paul 

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Posted by richhotrain on Saturday, August 10, 2013 9:08 AM

Paul,

If you are operating your layout in DCC, and if you have a reverse loop on your layout, you should consider a DCC-powered auto-reverse unit such as the Digitrax AR-1 or the DCC Specialties PSX-AR.

I am not familiar with the units that you just specified, but they may be intended for DC layouts.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Saturday, August 10, 2013 4:41 PM

Paul,

Rich,is correct,,,,what you describe,from Atlas is for DC,common rail wiring,with their components,,,,,common rail wiring will not work on a DCC layout...If you have a DCC layout,the two AR's he suggested,are perfect,for your application...

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 12, 2013 8:22 AM

Hello Rich,

 

I appreciate the help. I designed the layout based on the space I had.unfortunately I forgot a crucial step.. to see if it was viable.

I have DCC-Command controller with sound on my locomotives. I like the EZ-track but it was limited in the radius & remote-wireless turnouts. Returned it for standard HO . Hobby store trip this week and I'll let you know.

 

THANKS!!!!

 

Paul

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Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 12, 2013 8:24 AM

Thanks Frank.. hobby store we  go

 

Paul

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Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 12, 2013 11:52 AM

Hi Rich,

 

Hope fully this will be the last time.

 

I could not attached a JPEG or Adobe drawing to illustrate my layout. regarding the Digitrax AR1 do I need 1, 2 , or 3 ?

 

My profile Image was the only way to attach layout. if you can show me how to attached a file, I will do so.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 12, 2013 12:25 PM

Paul,

First of all, don't feel like you are imposing by coming back for more help.  That's what we are here for.

Second, maybe we can shortcut this process.  I looked at your avatar, and I re-worked the earlier track diagram.  It was a little difficult to clearly view your track plan from the avatar, but is this an accurate representation of your track plan?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by zstripe on Monday, August 12, 2013 12:29 PM

Paul,

You can bother Rich,,He likes it....If you only have one reverse loop,you only need one AR,,,In your case,a track plan,,would be extremely helpful,,in making sure..

Cheers,

Frank

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Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 12, 2013 12:42 PM

Hello Rich,

 

 Thanks....I trying to put two kids through college and I thought this would be my fun time to reduce the stress of that and work. 

 

There is one more turnout on the horizontal track which ends with two bumpers into a rail yard. but this should not matter?

 

Thanks,

 

Paul

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 12, 2013 12:49 PM

Paul, that is correct.  For this purpose, that other turnout on the horizontal track won't matter.

Here is the same track plan with the red dots marking the position of the rail gaps at the divergent ends of the two turnouts that feed that center track.  Assuming that your entire train will fit inside that gapped section of track, which is the reversing section, you will only need one auto-reverser, and a Digitrax AR-1 will be fine for that purpose.  If your longest train will not fit inside that reversing section, then a single Digitrax AR-1 will still be sufficient, but the gapping locations will be different.  Let us know.

Incidentally, those two horizontal tracks will be part of the reversing section, no harm there.

Rich

  

Alton Junction

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Posted by Paul1261 on Monday, August 12, 2013 1:00 PM

Rich

When we are speaking about rail gaps is this special "track Gap" I purchase? I looked at the website for Digitrax and downloaded a drawing and instructions and they referred to a gap with no RR ties?

Sorry.

 

Paul

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 12, 2013 1:05 PM

Paul,

The idea behind gapping the rails is to isolate the reversing section from the rest of the layout for electrical connectivity purposes.

One way to do it is to use plastic rail joiners instead of metal rail joiners where those red dots are indicated in the track diagram.

Another way to gap the rails is to cut the rails with a Dremel or razor saw.

Once you pick up a Digitrax AR-1 at your LHS, we can advise you on the wiring.

Since you are running a DCC-powered layout, are you running feeder wires to the track off of a pair of bus wires?

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by richhotrain on Monday, August 12, 2013 1:07 PM

.

Alton Junction

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