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Switch Machines

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  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 2,616 posts
Posted by peahrens on Saturday, July 13, 2013 10:35 AM

I saved as favorites some prior Tortoise related threads, so I looked them up:

- more input on using under 2" foam

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/172362.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/202274.aspx

- a couple of threads on installing

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/78158.aspx

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/202274.aspx

One other thought.  Before starting my first layout install, I took a piece of scrap plywood and installed a tortoise on it with a turnout and short pieces of flex track extensions.  I used that to practice soldering rail joints, installing the Tortoise, wiring a DPDT with an LED in series, mounting the DPDT & LED in a temporary "control panel" (a piece of cardboard.  I raised the plywood about 5" with scrap wood legs on each end. I used a Railpower 1370 power pack variable DC output for this.  I later managed to ruin the 1370 so I acquired the Circuitron power supply for my layout. I found the exercise most useful.

 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, July 12, 2013 9:23 PM

You can use "music wire" or "piano wire", about .040, from the hardware store.  It's cheap.  You will need a hefty pair of wire cutters for it, and a decent pair of pliers to bend it to shape.  Don't count on using the small ones that you've got for train wiring.

My hints:

1. Make it about a half-inch longer than you need.  I find that it's easier to install a longer wire and then cut it down.

2. You don't have to put the Tortoise wire in the center of the points.  You can put it outside the rails through one end of the throwbar.  Sometimes that's easier.

3. Sharpen or round off the end with a file.  It's easier to slip into the hole in the throwbar that way.

4. Put a bit of Labelle grease on to the tip before installation, too.  Again, it will be easier to install.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Horsham, Pennsylvania
  • 412 posts
Posted by woodman on Friday, July 12, 2013 8:33 PM

I have 1/2" plywood, 2" foam board then road bed, where can I get longer throw wire, according to Tortoise  instructions the throw wire will not be long enough.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 12, 2013 6:37 PM

MisterBeasley

Tortoises have 6 terminals on the underside. 

Actually, there are 8 terminals.

Rich

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, July 12, 2013 6:22 PM

Tortoises have 6 8 terminals on the underside.  These are solder terminals, if you wish, or you can buy computer plugs that slip on over the connection board and give you a set of solder terminals that you can wire off the layout and stick on later.  I find this to be a very good investment, despite the excessive price my LHS charges for them.  (I like to support my LHS, and a few dollars here and there doesn't bother me.)

Once your Tortoise is in place, you don't want to remove it, so this can be an important consideration.  Wiring under the layout, upside down with a hot soldering iron, is not one of my favorite tasks.

I think Tony's Trains is coming out with a Tortiose-compatable slip-on that provides screw terminals.  It's, well, uh, it makes the overpriced terminals from my LHS look a bit more reasonable.  But, if you really hate to solder and you have only a handful of Tortoises, they might be for you.

I use Walthers-Shinohara turnouts these days.  They have metal frogs, but they are not powered.  I have found it advantageous to use one set of Tortoise connectors to power the frog.  Again, it's easier to use those removeable connectors.  It's also easier to wire the frog itself before you install the turnout.  When you wire the Tortoise's SPDT connections, note that the common post of the SPDT is NOT the middle one.  Check the diagram, then wire.

And, finally, I'll make a plea for color-coding of your wires.  My track bus and feeders are black and red.  My frog wires are, appropriately, green.

(Thanks, Rich.)

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Friday, July 12, 2013 5:54 PM

 I used to use Tortoises, now I use servos and controllers from Tam Valley Depot. Much less expensive, and much smaller, you cna fit them in tight spaces - and particualrly if building a multi-level layout, the won't hand down as far into the level below.

 I just get the controllers from Tam Valley, the servos I get from any number of ebay sellers, usually around 6 for $13.

 Tam Valley has all sorts of controllers, for DCC and not. The DCC ones have fascia control buttons and LED indicators and can be used without DCC, the non-DCC model is cheaper per turnout and you can add a DCC decoder to it later should you decide to go that way.

 Not connected, just a very satisfied customer.

                     --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Dearborn Station
  • 24,281 posts
Posted by richhotrain on Friday, July 12, 2013 5:38 PM

woodman, there are two things to keep in mind when installing a Tortoise.

First, the Tortoise is mounted on the underside of the layout, so if the layout surface is plywood, you need to drill a hole for the activating rod to come up and feed through the turnout throwbar.  I drill a 5/8" diameter hole for this purpose so that the activating rod has room to move laterally, moving the throwbar to the left and right.  To mount the Tortoise, there are positions for four small screws to hold it against the underside of the layout.

Second, the Tortoise must be wired to some sort of switch, not provided with the Tortoise, to activate the Tortoise.  I use a DPDT switch for this purpose.  Two wires connect from the DPDT switch to a DC power supply.  Two more wires connect the DPDT switch to the Tortoise.

That is it for the wiring unless you want to connect signals to the setup and/or control panel lights.  That requires some additional wiring.

You will probably have a lot more questions, so fire away.

Rich

 

 

Alton Junction

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • 2,616 posts
Posted by peahrens on Friday, July 12, 2013 5:13 PM

I got back to trains last year and used Tortoise machines, having years before used Atlas undertable machines.  I really like the Tortoise. 

a) here is where you can click to get an instruction sheet

http://circuitron.com/index_files/Tortoise.htm

b) the Tortoise has eight contacts.  Numbers 1 & 8 are for DC power, which you reverse to change the turnout direction.  The DC can be provided by an item like the Circuitron power supply for this purpose.  Most people use a 2-position (no center off) DPDT switch for each Tortoise to do the switching. I believe the Tortoise instructions show how to wire the DPDT. There is also an old thread here somewhere, with diagrams, maybe we can find it.  EDIT: see the diagrams (particularly the one from Rich) in the following thread:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/214769/2358228.aspx#2358228

The Circuitron supply will handle up to 30 Tortoises (wired in parallel through their respective DPDTs) if I recall correctly.  They always get power; the current varies to each depending on whether the Tortoise is moving or "stalled" at the targeted direction (finished moving). 

c) The Tortoise is usually mounted under the table, first drilling a 1/4" or larger (I used 3/8") hole under the throwbar.  A wire is attached to the Tortoise and works as a lever to move the throwbar.  The wire also holds the throwbar with spring tension in the desired direction.  I used 3M double sided tape to temporarily mount it (threading the throw wire up into the throwbar hole) and when satisfied, added a couple of screws. 

d) Auxiliary contacts (there are 2 sets) on the Tortoise can be used to power the frogs if you like, or to swich signal lights, etc.  But that is optional and separate from the turnout direction wiring.

e) You can get fancy and mount your DPDT switches on the fascia or on a control panel with a diagram, etc.  If interested, we can point you to a MR article on that (or an old thread).  You can show turnout direction on your panel by the DPDT switch with a bicolor LED wired into the DPDT output wire to the Tortoise.  A neat option that costs about 50 cents.  Here's a thread from last year on control panels:

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/210121.aspx

 

I'm speaking of my experience installing under 5/8" plywood.  There are some adjustments to make if putting under, say, 2" foam subroadbed.  In unique cases, if you can't mount a Tortoise directly under the throwbar, you can use a remote Tortoise mount that conveys the movement via a short cable to the spot under the throwbar (or some folks mount above the table with a similar arrangement.

I did about 20 of these.  It took some study but was not overwhelming. 

I also did the control panel thing, a fun project itself.

We can point you to suppliers for items (DPDTs, LEDs, power supply, wiring, etc) as needed.  I remember Mouser, All Electronics, others).

EDIT: here are some specifics on hardware that I used:

   - DPDP item MTS-8 from All Electronics

   - bicolor LEDs item LED-6 from All Electronics

   - terminal strips item TS-205 from All Electronics (these are 5-position strips that I mounted under the table near the Tortoise for the 2 power wires and the 3 wires for alternating frog power

   - power wire item WRB-24 from All Electronics (24AWG red/black auto zip cord)

   - LED clips for the control panel HLED-4 from All Elects (only one of two parts used)

   - Circuitron item 7212 power supply from Jims Model Trains

  

    

 

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Horsham, Pennsylvania
  • 412 posts
Switch Machines
Posted by woodman on Friday, July 12, 2013 3:23 PM

Getting ready to purchase switch machines, I am considering Tortoise machines. I have hand thrown my turnouts in the past but will be using remote machines on my new layout. I am a novice when it comes to electronics, so my questions is how difficult is it to hook up these switch machines and what will I need to do it. What comes with the machine, do I have to supply a button or switch to activate the machine or does it come with it. If not, what type of button or switch do I need, just remember I am a novice so a simple explanation will be appreciated.  Thank You.

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