I have read many posts about this, but have gotten no results. Does anyone know how to speed match QSI decoders, such as the ones in Atlas gold Line HO engines, to decoders of other manufacturers? I've basically tried everything (CV 2/5 (they forgot CV 6), Custom Speed tables, the works...) and still it doesn't work. I've fooled around with QSI's control settings, and all that yielded was either a locomotive that doesn't speed up between steps 1 and 8 or one that acts super odd and wonky (doesn't move in forward, takes off like a rocket in reverse). Has anyone had success with this?
I have 2, both are version 7
That was the first process I tried. The problem is that QSI decoders do not support CV6, and the manual gives no indication on how to turn off BEMF
This is the manual I have been using http://www.walthers.com/page/qtm_q1a_dcc_ref_man_ver_4_0_2.pdf. It was published closer to the manufacture of my locos and does not make mention of CV6
It lists an "N" for not supported. However, even if it were, it does not help the problem of not speeding up till SS8
I am once again reminded why I do not use this forum. No one is helpful of polite. I have read the F#*$%ing manual several times, tried everything you have suggested and reported that I have. I reset the decoder many times, each time the loco will not speed past SS1 until SS8, no matter what I input for CV 2,5,25, 29, or 67-94
I may come across as ungrateful because I've been trying to tell you that I have tried what you are suggesting about a dozen times with the same results. I am not stupid. I do not appreciate your being rude to me. Had we actually been able to have a conversation I would have thanked you graciously for your assistance, even if all you could do was tell me what I already know. I simply do not take kindly to people who accuse me of being unintelligent and imply that they are using language not preferable in this sort of community. I told you what my problem was. You gave me your assistance, at least to what you thought I was asking. I told you that I had tried what you were suggesting, and rather than simply saying "OK" or suggesting something else, you accuse me of stupidity and carelessness. I would have expected a more professional approach from a professional like yourself. Perhaps I was mistaken. So, I suppose you will be leaving so thank you very much for you help. I greatly appreciate your original effort in assisting me.
Ummmm, one of the things that I see is that QSI does not necessarily refer to BEMF. They list several modes of throttle response on page 165 of the manual you referenced. One of these is something called RTC, or regulated throttle control. This is discussed on page 166. From what I read, it appears that your loco comes with RTC as the default, top of page 165.
There is something on page 167 where it states that "at QSI we set V-start to provide minimum speed between speed step 1 and speed step 8" (5th bullet down), and then suggests that the speed will not increase until speed step 9 (inside the gray box on the same page). That seems to be similar what you are describing.
I am not an expert on all this, but it appears to me that if you wish to not use the RTC function that you'd want to use what they call STC, or standard throttle. This is also described on page 165. To do this, you would have to change CV56.4 from the default of 1 to a new value of zero. Following the example on the bottom of page 166, I believe that you set CV 49 to a value of 4, and then set CV 56 to a value of zero. Then you should be able to go through whatever you want to do without any interference from the RTC, or BEMF, or whatever else they call it.
But, as I said, I'm not an expert, so please re-read all that stuff yourself to see if it makes sense. And possibly Mr.Dave might wish to comment if you haven't annoyed him beyond repair.
GOOD READ ! but at the risk of sounding stupid ,what is RTFM ?
to the opp, I feel Your pain with the QSI ,I too just went thru hell trying to speed match, And some one recommended that you need to shut off "verbal read back" on the QSI if using in ops mode programing and speed tables. I was also using decoderpro,a ring a track,a zephyr (power/comand) dt402 (throttle),pr-3 and the comfort of my office and it still was bear. I well go with Dave on day to day changes with different locos so I found a stop watch and timing marks on my circle of track to work best for me.
as far as the Bemf on the qsi ,still don't get it ( I only printed the first 100 pages of the book) but believe it has to do with rtc or stc throttle , Also I never got my qsi's to start moving on step 1 2 or 3 , so the QSI /P2K was my "golden " or benchmark loco's , and everything else is matched to them .
wish I could better help, BUT thats about all I remember...Jerry
I guess I just have to wonder, yet again, why the obsession with making sure everything runs perfectly in lockstep. I have one loco with a QSI, an Atlas Trainmaster. I run that together with a pair of Proto 2000 GP7's which have TCS motor-only decoders.
I've changed nothing (other than the address - too many gerfingerpoken DCC novices at the club so using consisting is at your own peril, since I run all three together all the time, or just the Geeps, I just set all 3 to the same address.
If I throttle up and down slowly, they run darn close together, at least when hooked to a train. Ran them for hours at a time on our latest 28x154 foot setup, no issues with anything getting hot or wheels grinding, or anything bad happening.
That's mixing loco manufacturer as well as decoder brand. I also have an otherwise identical AB set of FTs, one with a Tsunami and one with a TCS, and they work well together with no adjustments as well.
I'm starting to see a pattern, maybe it's the TCS motor decoders, with their auto adjusting BEMF keeping them running well together. And they aren;t crazy expensive decoders, about $19 or so.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
BIG JERRGOOD READ ! but at the risk of sounding stupid ,what is RTFM ?
After much serious consideration and debate, the committee for unusual, unknown, or otherwise unclear acronymns has published a literary paper where they have defined "RTFM" as meaning "read the flipping manual".
rrinker I guess I just have to wonder, yet again, why the obsession with making sure everything runs perfectly in lockstep.
Going back to the original post, it appears that part of the problem was that the OP could not get the decoder adjusted to speed up until speed step 9. From my limited knowledge of the subject as posted above, this appears to be a characteristic of the decoder when operated in RTC mode.
MAXMAN,
i will have to admit,,,you did it again,,,I agree with both your response's.. Your technique,for be subtle,is stupendous, without a doubt.......LOL..
Cheers,
Frank
thanks Maxman
Hey now; that makes since, with all the BEMF ,RTC,STC, hard to tell and one could see where that may be taken as rude. But to be honest the QSI our a bit confusing with there set-up compared to others and NOW I see the need to cough up ink & paper for the other 100 pages,as that is a good-to-know on the first 8 speed steps ...Jerry
BIG JERRNOW I see the need to cough up ink & paper for the other 100 pages
My personal preference is to download and save the manual, and just print out the pages I need.
I did not want to jump into a controversy of words but I am anyway. Randy and I are in total agreement that just getting close in speed is good enough for good operation. If I can get four steam engines to run together with great satisfaction from four different manufactures with four different brands of decoders then anyone can get a pair of locos to run good from two different makers and decoders. No one has mentioned that instead of speeding up the sound decoder equipped loco to instead slow down the silent loco to match it in starting and running. And another thing is that just because Atlas failed to put something in their mediocre manual does not mean that it is not in the decoder. If CV2 and CV5 are supported then CV6 is more than likely supported also or if not then a linear /straight line speed curve will be there. If QSI who made and programed the decoder for Atlas then they surely know better and their manual will reflect it. Put the Atlas manual in a drawer and go with the QSI manual. Lets not make this harder than it has to be.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
locoi1saI did not want to jump into a controversy of words but I am anyway.
Pete: I believe that you, as well as Randy, missed the OP's complaint that he was not able to get the decoder to change speeds until he got to speed step 9. I think he is complaining about a lack of decoder response.
Also, he does not apper to be using the Atlas manual, but rather using a QSI manual as this is where the link he provided goes. That manual does not appear to show CV 6 as being supported.
You do raise a good point, however, concerning which manual he is using. In the original post, he mentions decoders "such as used in the Atlas gold lion HO engines". However, the link he provided, http://www.walthers.com/page/qtm_q1a_dcc_ref_man_ver_4_0_2.pdf, says it is from the Walthers website. I'm pretty sure that Walthers had locos with the QSI decoders as well as Atlas. Whether or not there is a difference I can't say. But it would probably be helpful to know exactly which manual he should be using so that we could all be on the same page.
Getting back to the original topic, my limited knowledge of speed matching indicates that BEMF, or RTC as QSI calls it, should be turned off when trying to speed match. The information in the manual he referenced indicates that the default for that decoder is RTC enabled. If this is true, I think he should explore disabling RTC to see if he can then accomplish what he wants to do. But of course he should determine exactly which manual he needs to be looking at.
Maxman.
Not knowing how the decoder was originally programmed by the OP we can only guess at what the CV settings are. CV29 has the 14/ 28,128 speed setting bit. Setting CV29 to 14 speed steps will get shaky running characteristics described by the OP. Another CV is momentum. Too much momentum in CV3 will make a decoder not respond to quick throttle changes. Most people just add a minimum of momentum maybe one or two perhaps 3. How this CV is configured by the decoder is another story. If I set CV3 in my TCS decoder will be totally different in another brand. The range of the CV is different. Some are 0-255 in others it is 0-20 or even 0-128. Knowing the range is key in knowing how much change is needed.
QSI has what is called RTC (Regulated Throttle Control) They also have Back EMF too. RTC is similar to what TCS calls Dither and NCE calls Torque Compensation. While Dither and Torque compensation is for mainly starting and slow speeds the RTC lasts for the entire speed range. And yes both RTC and BEMF should be disabled in consist. Although I do have one QSI powered 2-10-0 that runs great in consist with RTC enabled. It is usually mated with a brass 2-10-0 with can motor and Loksound Select decoder or a BLI 2-10-0 with the Paragon 2 decoder.
I guess it depends on what OEM version it is - as far as I know, Atlas has always had BEMF, even during the 'controversey years'. BEMF will get the loco moving at step 1. QSI has 2 options, no BEMF, standard BEMF, and their 'cruise control' option which the non-prototypical one which is missing on the version 1 decoders. I'll have to check my Trainmaster but I don;t recall setting anything on it other than the address and volume, the rest is as it came otu fo the box, brand new. I also set a lot of momentum on it, so you can load up the prime mover when starting a train withotu it jackrabbit starting. In face, when I last added my Geeps to the consist, I didn;t turn off the momentum - this did make the Geeps drag the Trainmaster if I cranked the throttle, until the TM got up to speed. But if I slowly advanced the throttle, all was fine.
ANd here's where I disagree with Pete - I never turn off BEMF on my locos, ever. But, I don;t run decoders with relatively poor BEMF - I have TCS and Loksound for the most part, plus the one Tsunami and one QSI. I have no issues with the locos fighting one another when consisted together (again, not using CV19, or even command station consisting, they all have the same address, though at home I will consist them 'properly'). Again I attribute the smooth running to TCS's auto adjusting BEMF - I've noticed when I take a loco and put a decoder in it, the first few feet it runs kind of erratically and then smooths out and from then on runs great - I guess that's the TCS BEMF adjusting itself. I never noticed anything like that back when I used Digitrax and NCE decoders in the same locos (yes I know, the NCE ones do not have BEMF at all - but the Digitrax ones I used did. I also used a few TCS T1 decoders back before they had BEMF, they were always smooth as well, but the NCE D13SRJ was much less expensive). My FT set with a TCS in oen and Tsunami in the other - I did nothign to the Tsunami except set an address, adjust the volumes, and pick the proper horn. The TCS in the other one, just set an address. They are drawbar coupled, so the only fighting they could do would spin the wheels of one, or drag one. Doesn;t happen, they both accelerate and decelerate smoothly.
I had trouble setting the speed with my early BLI Hudson with QSI sound decoder. I found installing the upgrade chip available from QSI allowed me to adjust it very easily, and also seemed to improve the running characteristics of the engine also.
Randy.
I do the same address consisting with my diesels. When I run my steamers, especially on the clubs layout it is usually a couple of 2-10-0 on the point with a pair of them on the rear pushing. Wheel spin or dragging is considerably more noticeable than the diesels. The BLI units are lighter in weight than the brass locos and I don't do traction tires so they tend to spin or break loose easier than the brass locos. Even though I add as much weight as I can the plastic locos are lighter. I advance consist the two lead engines and the two rear engines on a different address then double head or command station consist the two together. It looks and sounds awesome going up the hill with forty hoppers in between with the cabin in the back. I would love to add more cars but the sidings are too short to clear for opposing traffic.
I have also consisted my Blueline with TCS motor decoder M1b with my QSI powered J1 and the J1 tends to spin its wheels with the BEMF enabled. Especially at slow speeds or changing speed.