thanks Maxman: a slap in the face and bucket a cold water poured on me was just what I needed, I really think I got a grip on it now , or should I say I have a little better understanding of what Im doing .
spent the day in and out of doctors offices,wifes yearly's and mine . took ALL my download printed manual's for locksound ,soundtrax, QSI ,nce for reading material....and late tonight it started coming together,the key for me was understanding "forward/rev trim CV" and a Lil better use of the decoder pro soft ware.
the QSI problems was more a difference in "versions" such as 6,7, etc and the fact had a bind in my newer f7s Qsi. turned out to be the truck bottoms for the newer gearing ,if not snapped on carefully it causes a bind that resembled a mis-programed decoder ,that chapped my hide before I figured it out what was wrong,...more latter Jerry ....thanks again
BIG JERR UPDATE ,in short NOT going well! QSI q1 aren't playing nice.... more questions , DO you program a consist number IN the decoder or just consist/mu though command station ? Can you harm a decoder bye multi programing try's ,I realize there NO moving parts in a decoder but how many times can one rewrite as say to adjust speed curve DO you lube you're locos prior to speed match , to be honest the stuff I have is new but old now ,example I have my favorite running loco that to me is new but according to mfacter date 2008 is older . These locos have no more than than 20 RUNNING hours but may need some love (LUBE) . These newer P2K /qsi units have never seen oil per instructions , should I tear-em down to get to worm an top bearings or Just clean out the gear box's an reapply a little gear lube and a drop of oil on truck bearings ? thanks in advance ,Jerry
UPDATE ,in short NOT going well! QSI q1 aren't playing nice....
more questions , DO you program a consist number IN the decoder or just consist/mu though command station ?
Can you harm a decoder bye multi programing try's ,I realize there NO moving parts in a decoder but how many times can one rewrite as say to adjust speed curve
DO you lube you're locos prior to speed match , to be honest the stuff I have is new but old now ,example I have my favorite running loco that to me is new but according to mfacter date 2008 is older . These locos have no more than than 20 RUNNING hours but may need some love (LUBE) . These newer P2K /qsi units have never seen oil per instructions , should I tear-em down to get to worm an top bearings or Just clean out the gear box's an reapply a little gear lube and a drop of oil on truck bearings ?
thanks in advance ,Jerry
okay ; a Lil reading and found the problem , you have to go into preferences in the edit file of the decoder pro and tell it what command center you are using , it was set on pr-3 in stand alone .
NOW it works just like the video #4 ,on the fly CV adjustments ..still gettin the hang of it but I like it Jerry
FAILED MISERABLY could not get the set up to work on the fly (POM ) the way it does in the videos computer/decoder pro says it writing but no changes not horn ,sounds ,speed tables ,in program on the main ,changes only take place on program track in program track mode.
its hooked up as spoken computer to pr-3 via usb ,pr-3 to back of zephyr via loconet cable , dt402 in loco net at back of zephyr wires to loop of track in rail a & b
it all works except programing on the main from decoder pro says its writing but changes NOT taking
I'm frustraited....Jerry
The PR3 alone can;t do the testing, it can only program. It can;t run trains by itself. Using the PR3 with JMRI as a standalone programmer would have it in service mode, not POM. It needs a power supply for this.
PR3 to Zephyr would work, no power suppyl needed. If you connect a piece of track to the program track terminals you could use both service mode and POM. For speed matching - you usually want POM so you can see the loco change speed as you adjust the CV.
Zephyr alone would work, but programmign all those CVs manually is a pain.
Zephyr with a DT40x would work, but same issue programming all those CVs.
Either the Zephyr aalone or with a DT400 doesn;t display speed steps - the Zephyr is analog so good luck getting an exact speed stp without monitoring it in JMRI, and the DT40x throttles actually go by percentage, 0-99, not steps 1-128. With JMRI and a PR3 or Locobuffer, you can see the actual speed step. You wouldn;t need the DT40x or Zephyr throttle with JMRI though, you can call up as many JMRI throttles as will fit on your screen, each controlling a different loco, up to the limit of the Zephyr.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
thanks Randy for further explaining, I think today I well set up a loop on floor of office (wood floor) ...soo correct me if I'M wrong here 1.computer to pr-3 via usb (decoder pro set to programing on main), 2. pr-3 connected to zephyr with loco net cable (need NO PS-14 power for pr-3 ? ) 3. zephyr (plus its power supply) connected to loop of clean track with solid connections. does this sound right ? opps; and dt 402 pluged into zephyr so I can use speed steps and contol 2 locos (zephyr has no speed steps just dial )
thanks Jerry
What speed matching I've needed to do has been accomplished using JUST CV 2, 5, and 6. Which is why I greatly dislike decoders that do not implement all 3 - that's old hat and every current production decoder that I know of EXCEPT Tsunami supports this. But hey, it's not a REQUIRED CV per the NMRA, so they are compliant...
JMRI can do match ends on the speed table, this is a function of JMRI, the decoders alone cannot do this, so to program tham by hand means setting each and every value, one at a time.
What is being suggested is to take a loco that has all 3 speed CVs and make that the 'golden loco' because others that need speed tables can be more flexible with a complex speed table. However, you do need to take into account that, all else being equal, the loco that runs the fastest on speed step 1 when fully adjusted (drive parameters and so forth) has to be the 'golden' loco for start speed - once it is set to start as slow as physically possible, you can;t make it start any slower, you can only speed up the others that do start slower so they match this one.
On the top end, it is exactly the opposite. With everythign else optimized, the one that runs the slowest at full throttle has to be the 'golden' loco. You can't make it go any faster, but you can slow down the others that are faster.
This is where supportign CV6 for mid speed comes in handy - once you have the topa dn bottom ends matched, you can simply tweek CV6 and set mid speeds to match. Slow to mid and mod to high will then be plenty close enough, without having to use a speed table for step by step speed matching.
]quote user=["ruderunner"]Personally I'd pick the loco that has the least CVs (2,5,6) for speed control, set it to perform as well as practical and match the rest to that
Not sure I understand what your saying ,do you mean, of the ones I have use the decoder/loco that HAS cv 2,6,5 or use the ones that only have say cv 2 as in tsunami as my "golden" ?
quote-But I don't relish the idea of having to change 30 or more CVs to manually enter a speed table. A puter is much faster/easier.
I'm taking this as IT can be done BUT every step must be done NOT just the 1rst and last and the "match ends " fills the rest automatically
and a question on the cv-2 start voltage ,if I understand correct , you want this set so the loco starts to move at speed step 1 , BUT in the case of "tsunami" wouldnt it be better to back that off so loco starts to move say at speed step 3 since the sounds dont start till spead step 1 ? jerry
Some (many?) decoders have an option to add a particular number into a CV and that creates the speed curve, so you don't have to manually do 30+ CVs.
Generally I use Decoder Pro to set up the engine's settings, including choosing a speed curve. Then I take it to the layout to speed match it to another engine. I have a long sidetrack that has a DPDT switch to change between regular DCC and programming mode. I put it in a consist with the "golden" engine and can run them side by side to see how they run. This usually only requires changing a couple of CV's - there are two CV's (66 and 95?) that you can adjust that will move the entire speed curve up and down, you don't have to do each one in between. Once the engine run at the same speed, I have the momentum CVs so they start and stop together.
Remember too that you can use CV's to slow an engine down, but you can't speed it up beyond it's top speed. I have a good BLI NW-2 diesel switcher who's absolute top speed is about 38 scale MPH, so I slow down my other switchers to match it so they can run together.
Personally I'd pick the loco that has the least CVs (2,5,6) for speed control, set it to perform as well as practical and match the rest to that.
If you do it the other way, you may not be able to get the limited loco to perform on par with the others. Not easily anyway.
You can enter speed tables manually, wether you need to use ops mode or program track is dependent on the dcc system.
But I don't relish the idea of having to change 30 or more CVs to manually enter a speed table. A puter is much faster/easier.
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
just took a cross section of my flock and read ALL sheets to compare cv settings and as most know the tsunamie have NO cv 5&6 and my QSI have NO cv 6.
I really like how my qsi/walthers f7/3/gp7/9/20 run and I shamfully have to many, but am thinking useing one of those as my "golden " and matching the tsunamis ,and non sound units to those .
NOW a couple a questions the tsunami and NCE non have 0 in cv-2 default whereas the locksound & QSI have 3 and 7 in the cv-2 , is that odd ?
and is it possible to use the speed tables withOUT computer from say the dt402
been putting ths off to long need to get -em matched...Jerry
ah yes : 24" that makes 48" circle to trk center, just thinking what Jim Breiner had wrote in a another thread on how ALL his locos are matched to one "golden",but to pull this off it would be nice to just sit at my deck with a table "loop" next to my deck and computer and do the Hole flock in one one sitting, it will probably NOT go as easy as I think but ,sounds good Jerry
I do it in N Scale as well so can't comment on the radius for HO. My test track/speed match set up is a figure 8. Level track with a crossover. I figure it's 1/2 left turns and 1/2 right turns that way. Don't know if it really makes a difference.
Martin Myers
Haven't done any matching yet, but would like to when the roster expands a bit.
As far as 24" curves, they should be no problem for most 4 axle diesels. The only exceptions I might think of would be something highly detailed in brass. 4 axle diesels are about the most forgiving of all locos as far as I know.
Just to check, do you mean 24" radius curves or are they 22" that measure 24" on the outside of the rails? The radius is measured to the center of the track, between the rails. You can look at the bottom of the sections on Atlas track and find the radius printed there. Shouldn't make a difference with the diesels on the curves.
Good luck,
Richard
been doing a LOT of search here and you tubes and a few videos aka Joe fugate etc. on speed matching . I'm pretty certain using computer, decoder pro ,pr-3 ,zephyr and a folding table with a loop a track in my office is the easiest ,from what Ive seen ( a "you tube" 6 part series ) .http://youtu.be/DxDZVoDC6EY
I was going to put a computer in the train room but I think a laptop would be best for that and I just don't have an extra, YET !
the thing is the kid with the you tube series is doing in n-scale and I'm HO, he's just using a circle and is adjusting the decoders while running in opps mode ,looks easy, he's using the speed curves & the "golden loco " idea NOT the cv2,5,6 approach .
question is, I was thinking of a loop rather than a circle ,and have some extra 24'' curves and straits that I did not use on rail road ,would these (24" )be tite (causing a slow spot) for two truck locos early diesel ?....Jerry