erosebud I knew better than to expect that two wires would do it,
I "overwired" three layouts before I went back to simple.
Some people thrive on complexity. They (we?) get a great feeling of accomplishment when we learn to make it do something new. Some times the descriptions of that intimidate newcomers.
DO NOT CONFUSE WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH DCC WITH WHAT YOU MUST DO WITH DCC.
If you plan to add detection in the future, isolate the sections you will want to detect and run a separate feeder to each section from your bus. Then your future detection will involve only wiring. Detection can be as complicated as a display of the train number on your computer or as simple as an LED on the fascia.
DCC can be as simple as DC or as complicated as you want to make it.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
EMD.Don I still consider myself a rookie in this hobby, having only been at it for slightly less then 3 years. I too was overwhelmed in the beginning. I read pretty much every "getting started" book available and it seemed the more I read the more intimidated I got!
I still consider myself a rookie in this hobby, having only been at it for slightly less then 3 years. I too was overwhelmed in the beginning. I read pretty much every "getting started" book available and it seemed the more I read the more intimidated I got!
IMHO, all of those 'getting started' books are a waste of time because none of them are ever going to cover your particular situation and will just wind up making you more confused on what you should do.
The best approach is to read the simple 'getting started' instructions that come with the particular system you have, and no more.
Once you have the system connected and working, you can then begin to absorb all of that other technical mumbo-jumbo as the need arises.
I still consider myself a rookie in this hobby, having only been at it for slightly less then 3 years. I too was overwhelmed in the beginning. I read pretty much every "getting started" book available and it seemed the more I read the more intimidated I got! The best decision I made was to keep things simple, plan plan plan (then plan somemore), be humble/modest in my expectations, and ask questions (there are no stupid questions except those that go unasked). Once I got started, all that knowledge I got from reading those books came in handy, especially when it came to recognizing potential pitfalls before I created them. That little voice in my head would say "that's just a nightmare waiting to happen" and I would rethink what I was about to do. It saved me further hair loss, stress, time, and money. But honestly, just get in there and start building. You will be amazed just how much you already know based on your research. Take your time, but start building. Your confidence will soar!
Happy Modeling!
Don.
"Ladies and gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that both engines have failed, and we will be stuck here for some time. The good news is that you decided to take the train and not fly."
These are exactly the sort of responses I have needed, both with respect to technical matters (snubbers and solder) and attitudinal matters (analysis paralysis, etc.). I'm ready to plunge in now. Thanks to all of you.
Analysis paralysis warning!
I agree with all the votes for KISS. On the otherhand, I also like to try to 'do it right' so i won't have to 'do it again'.
But in order to 'do it right' one has to actually 'do it'.
Failure is learning, so is success. it's win win, so jump in and do something. You'll learn to separate the chest thumping from actual good advice by applying a liberal helping of experience!
The ONLY thing i would recommend keeping an eye out for would be the storys of "Turns out the Zephyr can't handle 30Amps" or "Wow, I didn't know my decoder had a built in smoke generator?!" and the like. :)
My personal experience with soldering: I use that $25 Radio$hack iron and it works fine for me. I also use a small jar of rosin flux and that flux turned my terrible solders into neigh professional looking ones.... however, be very VERY sparing with the flux because (as has been said) it can make quite a mess.
I'm OCD with wiring so I use terminal blocks instead of IDCs. IDCs work fine, so do terminal blocks. I say experiment with both and see which outcome you like better.
If you plan on operating with a crew, then perhaps zoning out your layout in some fashion using lightbulbs or breakers might be warranted. it would allow you greater resiliancy as a single failure wont take down the entire layout. But then again, HOW to zone your layout is really something NO ONE can tell you how to do. You'll just have to operate on it for a while and see what seems logical. You may come to the conclusion that no zoning is needed.
All comes down to your experience with what you have built. Don't be afraid to ripout something and replace it. That includes wiring, not just scenery!
Cheers!
Dave Loman
My site: The Rusty Spike
"It's a penny for your thoughts, but you have to put your 2 cents in.... hey, someone's making a penny!"
erosebud I'm nearly ready to hook up my NCE system to a couple sections of track. I knew better than to expect that two wires would do it, but suddenly I'm hearing about "snubbers," for instance. Then there's all the contradictory opinions. Use automotive bulbs. No, get circuit breakers. Only a fool would use paste flux, or any flux at all. Forget the twenty-buck Radio Shack pencil-tip iron and get a three-hundred-dollar station. Solder feeder wires to every joint, but don't feed the frog end of turnouts. Use IDCs; never use IDCs. Every town should have its own sub-bus; only the larger layouts need more than a single power district. I have a single-track layout with a two-track return loop at one end and a stub-ended staging yard at the other. Later I'll add a small yard with a turntable. I have just a few sidings. I'd like to be able to detect occupany in the (hidden) return loop, but otherwise I have no need to operate any accessories or turnouts with the DCC system. I welcome any encouragement and/or caution you may offer, and I hope you can point me to places like this one where my elementary questions will be tolerated and answered.
I'm nearly ready to hook up my NCE system to a couple sections of track.
I knew better than to expect that two wires would do it, but suddenly I'm hearing about "snubbers," for instance.
Then there's all the contradictory opinions.
Use automotive bulbs. No, get circuit breakers.
Only a fool would use paste flux, or any flux at all.
Forget the twenty-buck Radio Shack pencil-tip iron and get a three-hundred-dollar station.
Solder feeder wires to every joint, but don't feed the frog end of turnouts.
Use IDCs; never use IDCs.
Every town should have its own sub-bus; only the larger layouts need more than a single power district.
I have a single-track layout with a two-track return loop at one end and a stub-ended staging yard at the other. Later I'll add a small yard with a turntable. I have just a few sidings. I'd like to be able to detect occupany in the (hidden) return loop, but otherwise I have no need to operate any accessories or turnouts with the DCC system.
I welcome any encouragement and/or caution you may offer, and I hope you can point me to places like this one where my elementary questions will be tolerated and answered.
You are reading too much and thinking too much.
You don't need stubbers. They are for large layout where there is possible interference in the room.
You don't need automotive bulbs and circuit breakers. I have a 5 amp NCE system with a single booster with a built in circuit breaker. That is enough. If you needed more, you would know it.
You can solder without flux. Flux can lead to mess.
A $25 Radio Shack soldering iron will do. 50 watts is plenty.
I only solder flex track curves on my layout, but I do add feeders on every end of every turnout.
You don't need IDC's. I strip a small portion of insulation off the bus wires and wrap the feeder wires around the bare bus wire. No solder, no suitcase connectors, no IDCs.
I have a 25' x 42' layout with a single set of bus wires and one power district. Less is more.
As others have said, KISS.
Rich
Alton Junction
erosebud:
I think a little learning (at a time) is really the only way most of us do learn. Few if any will have a full understanding the first time through.
I'm not sure if you have seen this site, but it has a wealth of DCC information. Allen Gartner knows DCC probably as well as anyone. His methods work. Give it a look:
http://www.wiringfordcc.com/
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
First of all you came to the right place to ask ANY question about model railroading. I just turned 72 last week and just started using DCC about 18 months ago, and I was very concerned about how to get started. I read a couple of books but mostly read this forum. I bought a used Digitrax Zypher and connected the two wires to my layout (partially finished for DC) and started running an engine. WOW, that was easy. Then I tried to program my only DCC loco and was sucessful, but not very comfortable with doing it that way. I read about Decoder Pro software here on the forum ( a free download) and started to program my DCC locos (now about 30 of them!) and never went back to programming with the Zypher. I know I skipped a lot of learning here, but it was all quite painless compared to what I thought it was going to be like. Just take one step at a time and enjoy yourself. Oh, I have a reverse loop too. Just get a Digitrax AR-1 (about $25) and that takes care of the polarity issue automatically. I love DCC now and even control a couple of turnouts (hard to get to when running a train) with it.
Take a deep breath and jump in, you'll love it.
-Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
As with many aspects of this hobby, you will find many ways of doing things, none of which are wrong (though there are wrong things that can be done). The opinions you get are really "what works best for me." A bad experience can turn a person against a certain method. Maybe they lucked out and found an easy way (for them) to do something the first time they tried and they feel that is the only way to go.
I have just started some DCC. I found the hook up of my NCE system simple, as I had a loop with sidings. I did run into some frustrations trying to program the decoder, because I didn't read correctly or understand some of the material. I keep plugging along and keep learning (you get old if you stop learning). I expect that once I get the hang of some of what can be done, I'll be able to do more without having my face in the book all the time.
Decided not to get ahead of myself or to worry over things. Do what I can, then after I get that down so I feel comfortable, take the next step. I had thought I had set the decoder so that I'd get a specific sound effect. It worked, but next time down at the layout, it didn't happen. Will go back and see if I am forgetting something or if I missed something in the original set up. I do know that some things have to be set at each start up, others should stay until changed.
Have fun,
Richard
Erosebud Hey.
I believe in the "KISS" principle. "Keep it simple stupid". I use the $20 Radio shack iron, no snubbers, use plenty of track feeders, A reversing loop will need either a DPDT switch or an auto reverser.... and you get the picture. Keep it simple to start and everything will fall into place as you learn.
Have fun
Lee
Unless you have two long main bus wires running around the perimeter of your rather large basement, meaning that those 10/12 gauge monster wires run about 60-80', you don't need snubbers. They are end-of-the-line devices to help the DCC signal and voltage...I seem to recall, but for sure the average layout builder won't need snubbers.
It is really quite simple. To keep your signal-to-noise for the DCC signal AND the voltage high (they 'need' each other to run the trains), you run reasonable large gauge wires the shortest distance you can manage. If they have to be the bus wires, off of which come two or more pairs of feeders, that's just fine...but it won't be more comlicated than that. Most of the time. For about 85% of us or more.
It is only when you get into large layouts with boosted districts where you want more complicated wiring.
It is good to be careful, but not good to be anxious. Nothing you are doing is worth your life or is about to claim it. or that of anyone you know. So chill a bit. Look more positively and enthusiastically at the prospect of enjoying all those DCC-equipped locomotives, now or in the future. But, do hook up one or more pairs of feeders off a short 14 gauge bus, make sure the right rail gets the correct phase/polarity, and then power up.
BTW, most of us face a fear or two in the hobby. Mine is trackwork. Wiring, soldering, scenery, making trees....meh. I won't say I'm very good, but they certainly don't scare me. Just the darned tracks...getting them to work right.
Crandell
I'm nearly ready to hook up my NCE system to a couple sections of track. Because I find even the simplest discussion of wiring a big mystery, I try to look at various sources. But the more I read, the more fearful I become. I knew better than to expect that two wires would do it, but suddenly I'm hearing about "snubbers," for instance. Where did they come from? Is there a place where they're defined, and their need established?
Then there's all the contradictory opinions. Use automotive bulbs. No, get circuit breakers. Only a fool would use paste flux, or any flux at all. Forget the twenty-buck Radio Shack pencil-tip iron and get a three-hundred-dollar station that does it all. Solder feeder wires to every joint, but don't feed the frog end of turnouts. Use IDCs; never use IDCs. Every town should have its own sub-bus; only the larger layouts need more than a single power district. Much of the advice I recognize as the same kind of chest-beating you see in camera clubs and auto shops, but sometimes it does make a difference, and I don't know what those times are.
I'm just venting my anxiety here, but the fact remains that I'd rather start out right than be demoralized by a mistake that shows up later. So: apart from the Kalmbach books by Mike and Andy, and the wiringfordcc website, are there other clear and comprehensive (and peferably illustrated) sources that can help get me going?