Missouri Pacific BNSF If I spilt to have more feeder wires inside the reverse loop, I just do that at the ARM output wires correct? Thanks, this has been a huge help!
If I spilt to have more feeder wires inside the reverse loop, I just do that at the ARM output wires correct? Thanks, this has been a huge help!
What I do is two connect one pair of feeder wires to the two terminals on the output side of the ARM, then join all of the feeders from the reversing section together onto the other ends of those two feeder wires.
Rich
Alton Junction
Missouri Pacific BNSF Can I use the ARM as the only source of power (no other feeders) inside the reversing loop? I am going to make the loop with a radius of 30 inches.
Can I use the ARM as the only source of power (no other feeders) inside the reversing loop? I am going to make the loop with a radius of 30 inches.
Sure, you would connect two feeder wires from the input side of the ARM to the bus wires and two feeder wires from the output side of the ARM to the track inside the circle.
If you do that, just be sure that the one set of feeder wires inside the circle is sufficient to provide power throughout the circle. Since four turnouts are part of the circle, connectivity could be a problem with only one set of feeder wires.
MP BNSF,
It only requires one ARM.
Once you isolate the circle, the circle becomes the reversing section.
You wire the input side of the ARM to your bus wires, and the output side of the ARM connects to any feeder wires inside the circle.
Any feeder wires leading to track outside of the reversing section ( the isolated circle) must be wired to the bus wires and should not come into contact with either side of the ARM.
I now realize what is being said about train length, etc... So in the post two post above this one, if I am using a DCC auto Reverse Module, I would insulate all turnouts and wye's outside the "circle" leaving the "circle" isolated; from there I would wire the auto reverse module ANYWHERE outside the "circle" on one lead and INSIDE the "circle" on the other lead correct? Will one ARM cover everything for me then; both directions heading out of any turnout?
In the first reverse loop Diagram, where would I put an auto reverse module? I assume part anywhere in the reverse section and the other part anywhere outside that section? Does it or will it only take one auto reverse module?
Thanks
Vieredy my main purpose of the loop was for reverse direction, while also using the configuration of the loop for passing thru trains.
my main purpose of the loop was for reverse direction, while also using the configuration of the loop for passing thru trains.
Ed, since the loop is primarily for reversing direction, while also using the configuration of the loop for passing thru trains, the, using my turnout numbering scheme, I assume that the primary routes are 123561 and 432654 for reversing direction and 1234 and 4321 for passing thru trains.
That being the case, gapping the turnout rails on 2,3,5 and 6 to isolate the loop as a reversing section seems to make the most sense since opposing trains would never enter the loop at the same time. Using a Digitrax AR-1 for this purpose would work just fine. I have included that track diagram here for easy reference.
Guys,
I was out of touch due to business and now I'm back catching up. Here are some bits to chew on;
Layout is HO scale with Digitrax DCS100 + 1 DB150 as booster. I'm finishing up on the lower level of a eventual 3 deck layout. Loop is 28" radius, the loop runs inside a helix, I plan on using Digitrax DS64's for the switches, one AR1 for reverse loop, and my main purpose of the loop was for reverse direction, while also using the configuration of the loop for passing thru trains.
sorry for the delay
Ed
Mike, great reply chock full of good ideas and suggestions.
I particularly like your suggestion about the ability to choose routes with MACRO+single button push, at least with NCE.
Now, we just have to wait for the OP to respond and tell us more about his layout and his objectives.
Rich,
That's a great problem definition for setting up the macros I mentioned earlier. That way you can then choose routes with MACRO+single button push, at least with NCE.
I'd guess that in practice that only some of these routes would be used, like you say, it depends on what the rest of the layout is like and what ops are planned to pass through it. That would also contribute to how to handle the scenery.
One thing this config would be good for is in a corner for access to staging. If staging yard leads were placed between 1 + 2 and 3 + 4 extending AWAY from the corner defined between 2 + 3, it would be easy to turn the train from either direction and back into stub-ended staging yard tracks. If there was LOTS of room, then those staging tracks could be double-ended and rejoin the main to head back without the need for backing up.
I'd guess the OP doesn't have something quite this space-hungry in mind, but for someone who needs to deal with staging on a large around the room layout might find it helpful. Obviously, the basic diagram can be translated in practice so that it's more photogenic. I can see a set of junctions, with the track between 5 and 6 acting as a sneak around, but with a low key disguise like tail track for an engine facility. Such a service facility takes a lot of space. I could see it serving both ends of the layout, even if each end otherwise had separate yards.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
It also depends upon the routes and the reason for those routes.
To illustrate this point, I numbered the six turnouts in this portion of the OP's layout.
I count at least 12 possible routes through the circle configuration, some of which make more sense than others.
Until we hear back from the OP, my guess is that the circle is to permit trains to turn back on their routes without proceeding from one side of the layout to the other. For example, trains entering the circle from the north (top) can use the circle to return north without proceeding any further east (bottom). The route would be 123561. In te same manner, trains trains entering the circle from the east (bottom) can use the circle to return east without proceeding any further east (bottom). The route would be 432654.
Depending upon the size and purpose of the circle, it could be used to divert trains into a passenger station or spur line and then continue on its route. Examples of this would be routes such as 12356234 or 43265321.
Simpler routes would include 1234 and 4321.
To avoid head on collisions, trains traveling in both directions could simultaneously proceed on routes 1234 and 4561.
So, a lot depends on the size of the layout and this particular section of track, the desired length of the reversing section, and the size and purpose of the circle. If the metal wheeled locos are pulling plastic wheeled rolling stock, the requirements will be different than if the train is pulling metal wheeled rolling stock or lighted rolling stock. Particular attention needs to be paid to the wiring of this section of track and the location of the rail gaps. The number of trains using this section of the layout will also be critical because of the necessity to avoid having two trains entering/exiting the reversing section simultaneously.
Hopefully, we will hear back from the OP regarding all of these issues.
Exactly. That's why I interjected some detail about how long the reversing sections needed to be when describing my approach. The various selections in how to do this mean there's options no matter what the intent and real estate situation happen to be.
What we don't know are the dimensions of the OP's layout and the size of the circle in question.
It may be quite small or it may be a large oval of track rather than a small circle.
The dimensions of this layout will have a lot to do with how best to design and wire the reversing section.
JC,
Mine wasn't so much an objection as a preference. Yours will work and may be the best choice in some cases. Yours doesn't have a through route that's not a reversing section. Rich's splits the difference, between our extremes, having one route through without reversing and the other with it. All should work.
It's true that some reversers are happier if the entire train is in the reversing section. If the rolling stock fleet is cheesy and all plastic wheels, not an issue. But some are fine if you get all the motive power into the reversing section and stop, then proceed. My PSX-AR calls for some extra gaps, which I'm going to leave to the instructions explain, but they promise it will work as I indicated with these slight mods.
Of course, one's comfort level with wiring up and programming reverser's can vary. I'm with you on generally making the reversing blocks as long as the longest train, but I can see needing to do it another way, also.
Vieredy I would like to know if it is possible to build 1 reverse loop that could handle tracks entering the loop from 2 opposite directions (one train would be in loop at a time of course) and then return back. My example would be a north bound track entering the loop and returning back going south and also a south bound track entering the same loop and returning back going north. I have laid out the track and 6 switches to do this, however Can this be done electrically and what components would be required. Thanks for any help
I would like to know if it is possible to build 1 reverse loop that could handle tracks entering the loop from 2 opposite directions (one train would be in loop at a time of course) and then return back. My example would be a north bound track entering the loop and returning back going south and also a south bound track entering the same loop and returning back going north. I have laid out the track and 6 switches to do this, however Can this be done electrically and what components would be required. Thanks for any help
Hi
I read all of the posts in this thread. And if I missed this I'm sorry. But I think you should make the reverse loop as big as possible. I mean make gaps as far away from each other as possible. Your train can only be as long as the gaped insulation. At your shortest points within the gap you might not be able to run a longer train without an interruption. The interruption will occur when for example the engine leaves the insulated loop and a portion of the train has yet to enter the insulated loop. The reverse loop will not function properly when that happens. I see that you might have a problem when the train enters the circle and exits at the quarter portion of that circle.
This is my loop. I made it as long as I could so a long train will have no problems
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No_sFEol9s8
JC
mlehman ... Rich, The sections I was referring to are the short ones that are centered at 4:30 and 10:30 on the big circle. Those would let you operate with trains passing straight through on the rest of the track, which is a certain advantage...
...
The sections I was referring to are the short ones that are centered at 4:30 and 10:30 on the big circle. Those would let you operate with trains passing straight through on the rest of the track, which is a certain advantage...
I don't understand your objection. The diagram you are referring to, as well as the electrically equivalent one I posted, would allow trains to pass straight through on the rest of the track.
richhotrain mlehman richhotrain Rich, This is almost right. Move the dots to the other leg of those turnouts and make THOSE sections the isolated reversing sections. I don't think you want the whole loop as a reversing section and it would need to be gapped other places to work like in your diagram. Yes, you only need one reverser for this, as you'll be going through it one way or the other, but never both at the same time. In DCC, set it up with decoderized turnouts, then program a Macro for each of the ways you'll go through to make it a one-button function. Mike, are you objecting to making the entire circle a reversing section because it won't work or because two locos might be entering/exiting simultaneously?
mlehman richhotrain Rich, This is almost right. Move the dots to the other leg of those turnouts and make THOSE sections the isolated reversing sections. I don't think you want the whole loop as a reversing section and it would need to be gapped other places to work like in your diagram. Yes, you only need one reverser for this, as you'll be going through it one way or the other, but never both at the same time. In DCC, set it up with decoderized turnouts, then program a Macro for each of the ways you'll go through to make it a one-button function.
richhotrain
This is almost right. Move the dots to the other leg of those turnouts and make THOSE sections the isolated reversing sections. I don't think you want the whole loop as a reversing section and it would need to be gapped other places to work like in your diagram.
Yes, you only need one reverser for this, as you'll be going through it one way or the other, but never both at the same time. In DCC, set it up with decoderized turnouts, then program a Macro for each of the ways you'll go through to make it a one-button function.
Mike, are you objecting to making the entire circle a reversing section because it won't work or because two locos might be entering/exiting simultaneously?
The sections I was referring to are the short ones that are centered at 4:30 and 10:30 on the big circle. Those would let you operate with trains passing straight through on the rest of the track, which is a certain advantage. It also minimizes use of the reversing section except for trains actually doing so. Auto-reversers are more reliable than in the past, but I always believe in minimzing wear and tear by design if at all possible.
Note that your design in your last comment just above this would also work.
I presume you would have two trains crossing the gaps at the same time. These are short sections where the train would foul other traffic if it did so , unless you're just running a motocar or RDC. Then I could see maybe have two seprata reversers. The key would be making those short sections of track long enough for your longest diesel lashup, otheriwse that might cause some stumbles.
Here is another variation, moving the reversing section to the bottom, the opposite side of the first diagram.
Your drawing is how I understood your description. Here is a drawing showing the solution I described:
This is electrically the same as Rich's second suggestion, but having the insulated sections closer to the turnouts outside the loop makes the reversing sections as long as possible.
Rich .... I can have a multi-unit consist enter with one train at one entry point, and exit at one exit point. I never have two trains crossing the insulated joints at the same time. Also, I never have a train stopped on an insulated joint while another train is crossing at another insulated joint.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Garry,
Any problem with multiple locos entering and exiting the reversing section simultaneously?
Rich .... The double track main line shares the same reverse loop as the tracks from Union Station. There are two clockwise entry points and two counterclockwise entry points.
Garry, I am reading this fast so maybe you mentioned it, but which part of your track work forms the reversing section?
Rich .... I have a loop similar to your drawing.This loop surounds my downtown section of the layout. It has a double track main line entering from one direction with the loop providing the ability for trains to return from where the came on the opposite mainline track.
The other two entry points are from the Union Station section with multiple tracks. Trains can be turned by pulling them through the loop. A passenger train departing Union Station begins its trip by going around the loop. Next, it enters the main line headed for points beyond.
I am using an MRC auto reverse for this, and most of the time it works okay. My system is an MRC Prodigy Wireless with an MRC power booster.
Mike, I was having a difficult time posting two alternative solutions just as you were posting your reply.
Take another look at my post before yours and tell me what you think.
Ed,
One way to do it is to gap the rails as shown in the first drawing below.
Another way to do it is to gap the rails to make the circle the reversing circle as shown in the second drawing.
There are some other ways as well if you want the reversing section in a different position.
One auto-reverser will do it, and the Digitrax AR-1 is perfect for that purpose.
If you wanted to manually reverse the polarity, you could simply install a DPDT switch.
.