Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

What Am I Missing?

931 views
7 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March 2013
  • From: Hixson (Chattanooga), Tn.
  • 99 posts
What Am I Missing?
Posted by daff on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 5:48 PM

I see a lot of video on DCC wiring.  Being new to this I thought DCC was model railroading version of plug and play.  So is there something to this I dont get?

If your controller matches your loco then you should be able to go, correct?

Thanks

Daffron

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:09 PM

Sorry to say it is not that simple. Yes, most controllers will control most decoders. Decoders need to be programmed and if you buy a used DCC loco, no telling what you might find when you go to use it.

Many decoders can be used with a DC power pack if the CV has not been modifiedd. I see the next question. What is a CV?

The loco is not so much the issue as what is inside the loco. Many are still sold DCC ready. No decoder yet. Many miss that when they buy a loco. And what is really DCC ready has differed between different manufactures.

Three systems can operate a DC loco but not really recommended for long periods.

You need to do a lot of reading as there are many variations in DCC.

Below is only one link about DCC and DCC with sound. There are hundreds of sites on the Internet about DCC. Google is your best friend.

http://www.mrdccu.com/

Making assumptions about DCC will eventually bite you. It is a lot different than DC.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:17 PM

 You're not missing anything. Track, with regualr rail joiners, makes for a poor wiring system, so you need feeders every so often to maintain solid power over the entire layout. Was no different before, just that with DC block control the layout was broken up into blocks so you alkready had the equivalent of multiple feeders scattered over the layout. The difference being, there are no artificual boundaries. You can literally run one train into another at any time if you don't pay attention, just like the real guys.

 Combine that with some people going WAY overboard with some things, and it makes it seem way harder than it is. One 'good' example - for a large layout, those suitcase connectors don;t come in a size that allows you to tap into a suitable size bus wire and connect a suitable (for HO and smaller) feeder directly. So I see people making up feeder pigtails, or just using a suitcase connector from the big size to some medium size, then using a smaller suitcase connector from that medium wire size to the small feeder. That's 2 suitcase connectors plus an extra piece of wire per feeder, so with a feeder to both rails  double that. Sorry, it is WAY faster and every bit as easy is not easier to simply solder the feeder to the bus. Done, no extra bits of wire hanging around, etc.

 And all this twisting the wire and adding 'snubber' circuits - maybe some DCC brands need that, but the one I use, and the one our club uses, do not. Our club layout is 24x160, there are no snubbers anywhere on the track bus, adn we do not have any control issues.

 A lot depends on the kind of track you are using - I built a basic 4x8 oval with Bachmann EZ-Track, and had 4 sets of feeders equally spaced. I had trouble with power loss in places. Then I started my previous layout, 8x12 donut shape with flex track. Rail joints were NOT soldered - to test run it I ran a pair of clip leads from my DCC to the rails - and had no problmes running trains even at the furthest spot from where the power was going in! I didn't keep it like that, but yes, it CAN work with just 2 wires to the track

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Western, MA
  • 8,571 posts
Posted by richg1998 on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 6:30 PM

The only plug and play with DCC for me was when I unplugged the DC power pack. I then plugged in the DCC system which was an old MRC 2000 with five throttles. Turned all the block switches on.

We did the same at our club the  NCE 5 amp Power Pro.

That was just a start.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • 274 posts
Posted by oregon shay on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:03 PM

Daff,

There is no substitute for taking the time to understand how DCC works.  When I got back into the hobby after a 50 year absence, it was clear things had changed, a lot.  The forums here are a great resource - you can get answers to almost any question.  I picked-up a copy of Kalmbach's DCC Made Easy.  It's a little dated in places, but still was a big help in understanding how DCC works.  Many aspects of DCC are indeed plug and play, but to really take advantage of them, you have to understand the way it works.  As others have posted, DCC can be a "cleaner" way to operate your locomotives and associated equipment, as you won't require block control for a large layout.  Knowledge is power.

Wilton.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Central Vermont
  • 4,565 posts
Posted by cowman on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 PM

The wiring of the layout is relatively simple, though a little more  complicated if you have a turntable or reverse loop.  Several good books on this are available as mentioned above.

If you have a new DCC system and a new loco, you should be able to find a page in the system manual to tell you how to get your locomotive running and performing basic functions. 

The complications come when you are ready to move on and use more of the features your  loco and decoder can provide.  My two locos have come with basic instructions on getting things working, but for full feature use you need more information.  Each decoder is a little different so you need to go to the locomotive manufacturers site to find a manual to tell you  how to set up all the fun features of your loco.

My suggestion is to get the locomotive rolling and learn the basic features of your new system.  Once comfortable with those, start to add features.  I tried to rush a bit and had some frustrating moments before I took a deep breath, slowed down and enjoyed what I had learned.  Then moved on to add a new feature or two when I have a chance.  Still learning.

Good luck,

Richard

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:54 PM

daff
I see a lot of video on DCC wiring.  Being new to this I thought DCC was model railroading version of plug and play.  So is there something to this I dont get?

No, you are not missing anything.  Unless you have some massive or overly complex layout there is nothing to DCC wiring.  Hook two wires from the DCC controller to the tracks and go.   Most of the issues that you will read about DCC friendly turnouts, wiring problems, hot frogs on turnouts, and the like are the exceptions not the rule. Then again as Randy said some people just go way overboard.

If your controller matches your loco then you should be able to go, correct?

Well yes, but even better; the DCC controller doesn't even need to match the DCC loco.    Any brand of DCC controller will control any brand of DCC decoder in the locomotive.   That is the whole point of a standard, so there can be interoperability between the vendors.   For example I have a CVP Easy-DCC controller.   CVP doesn't make decoders so I run locomotives with QSI, SoundTraxx, NCE, Lenz, and even Digitrax decoders in them.   I take the same locomotives to the club where the controller is a Lenz system.  They all work.   I take them to the museum layout that has an NCE controller.  Once again they all work.   Plug and Play at its best.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Vancouver Island, BC
  • 23,330 posts
Posted by selector on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 8:18 PM

daff

I see a lot of video on DCC wiring.  Being new to this I thought DCC was model railroading version of plug and play.  So is there something to this I dont get?

If your controller matches your loco then you should be able to go, correct?

Thanks

Daffron

DCC is as 'plug 'n play' as is DC.  Period.  The more complicated your rail circuits, the more complicated must be your wiring and accessories in either system.  But, just as a simple oval-with-siding needs one feeder pair if it's small enough, say under 15' of rails, the same would be true of a DCC-powered layout.

What some people fail to take into account with DCC is that it isn't magic, and it needs a robust signal-to-noise ratio at the rail head for the sake of the listening decoders and for the sake of your protective short detection circuitry...always included in the big box base controller.  In order to keep the signal strong, you must also keep the voltage strong.....everywhere.  So, while a DC  layout may get by with a single pair of feeders, trying to get away with powering 50 feet of rails with a single pair of feeders in DCC is sure to cause you a lot of trouble.  It won't be fun, and it will cost you to replace burnt decoders because you allowed the voltage to fall significantly at the distant points away from the pair of feeders and when your locomotive derailed, your base unit couldn't tell and let the full rated amperage course through the locomotive.  Poof.  And that was your dollars, not the smoke.

However, if you feed the rails, it's every bit as plug and play as DC.  DC also has more needs for blocks, though, and DCC is not encumbered that way.

AFAIK, all modern DCC systems will run all DCC decoders.  Just get the power and features you need/can afford.  If you are introducing DCS, from MTH, now you have complications.  I have little ethical choice but to recommend you stick to one system to get the most out of your locomotive experience.  Chose one and run with it.  They are both fine systems, although DCS is much smaller in market and has a very limited choice of locomotives.

Crandell

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!