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Seeking "manual notching" advice - Genesis GP7

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  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,879 posts
Posted by maxman on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 3:07 PM

oregon shay

 I am unwilling to demonstrate my lack of all-encompassing knowledge on the subject of decoder programming, and be subjected to printed references to it.  From the forums I have learned that not all DCC systems work exactly alike, as well as recently learning that locomotive makers re-map decoder functions.  There are so many combinations of locomotive brands/factory-installed decoders/DCC throttles in use that I would be opening-up a rather large can of worms to begin supplying CV value specifications, knowing that it is extremely unlikely for these values to work correctly for anyone else's scenario.  I desired automatic notching, lots of momentum, rapid prime mover notching response, and manually controlled braking on my Genesis GP7.

 
Wow, I'm sorry that you have had that reaction from some of us.  I guess we need to do a better job.
 
How about a compromise?  After you were done with the Soundtraxx rep, did the loco perform as you wanted?  If so, just post the new CV values they gave you with a caveat that those settings worked for your case and that there was no guarantee that they would work for anyone else?
  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • 274 posts
Posted by oregon shay on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 2:29 PM

Maxman,

Thank you for your reply to my recent post.  I apologize that my post was not more detailed and technically helpful.  I have learned many extremely useful and creatively stimulating things from the MR forums.  I have also learned that not everyone who participates here is as gracious and respectful as you.  I am unwilling to demonstrate my lack of all-encompassing knowledge on the subject of decoder programming, and be subjected to printed references to it.  From the forums I have learned that not all DCC systems work exactly alike, as well as recently learning that locomotive makers re-map decoder functions.  There are so many combinations of locomotive brands/factory-installed decoders/DCC throttles in use that I would be opening-up a rather large can of worms to begin supplying CV value specifications, knowing that it is extremely unlikely for these values to work correctly for anyone else's scenario.  I desired automatic notching, lots of momentum, rapid prime mover notching response, and manually controlled braking on my Genesis GP7.  Soundtraxx's technical support person had to do a little research, and compile a list of about a half dozen CV values for this application.  As I wrote before, with my very limited knowledge, I am not in any position to present myself as an authority.  When I mentioned speaking with Soundtraxx, I meant that as the absolute best method to get the spec's needed to make the Tsunami "get up and dance".  As far as your remark about the factory installed decoders not possessing the same attributes as decoders you can buy from companies like Tony's Train Exchange, that's my understanding as well, but I am not familiar with the nuances of just what those differences are.  For me, there is no substitute for a conversation with the people who make them.  In my book, the people at Soundtraxx are pretty sharp. 

Wilton.

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Posted by maxman on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:24 PM

oregon shay
Most of my difficulty making this decoder work the way the Soundtraxx manual explains it has to do with Athearn re-mapping some of the specifications.

Although it might be difficult, can you at least give us a summary?  If you have had a question, I'm sure others will, also.

Foe, example, is this a case where the Athearn installed decoder does not have the same ability as the off the shelf item;  are there different programming instructions; and so forth.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • 274 posts
Posted by oregon shay on Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:09 PM

Thanks to all who responded to my post.  I had a very enlightening conversation with Soundtraxx's technical support this AM.  Most of my difficulty making this decoder work the way the Soundtraxx manual explains it has to do with Athearn re-mapping some of the specifications.  I won't go into any details here because - #1 - it is complicated, and #2 - it is complicated.  I say this because of the various combinations possible using automatic or manual notching, combined with the function keys, but even more so because I'm the first to admit that I'm not familiar enough with notching and function keys to speak authoritatively about it.  Additionally, Tsunami decoders factory-installed in different brands seem, to me anyway, to result in unique programming environments.  This post isn't intended to educate and assist in the programming of decoders.  You will want to speak directly to Soundtraxx.  They enabled me to understand it so I can get all the enjoyment possible from a great product.

Wilton.

  • Member since
    October 2002
  • From: City of Québec,Canada
  • 1,258 posts
Posted by Jacktal on Sunday, May 19, 2013 7:02 PM

First,Tsunami's reset by giving CV30 a value of 2,then turning power "off" to the track.All CV's should be reset at "default" upon repowering.

CV116 controls prime mover sounds two ways.Bit 0,1,2 and 3 can be combined different ways to obtain totals varying from 0 to 15.A value of 0 activates manual notching then any other value totalled by these four CV's automatically activates automatic notching and also dictates the number of throttle clicks that will have an effect on the prime mover's sound.Let's say a total of 7 (default) means that the prime mover's sound will increase one notch every seven clicks of the throttle knob.Since the diesel sound is divided in eight notches,it means the top RPM will be reached at 56% throttle.Loco speed will still keep increasing but the sound has reached it's max.Then if you have a value of 10,diesel sound will be linear to throttle up to 80%.If a value of 0 for all four CV's,then it's manual notching,F9 starts the engine and every press raises the sound one notch up to notch 8.Then F10 reduces engine sound a notch down to engine shut down.

Selecting Bit 4 activates an interlock feature...the loco will refuse to move until the prime mover has completed its startup sequence.Pretty prototypical.If Bit 4=0,the loco starts moving,totally ignoring prime mover startup.

Bit 5=0,the diesel engine will initiate its startup sequence at the first click of the throttle provided automatic notching prevails.If activated,diesel starts automatically upon powering the track.

Bits 6 and 7 control engine throttle when using the dynamic brakes (F4).No value to both,engine ignores brake activation.

Bit 6=1 & bit7=0:Dynamic brakes reduce throttle to 50%.

Bit6=0 & Bit7=1:Dynamic brakes reduce throttle to idle.

Bit6=1 & Bit7=1:Dynamic brakes rases throttle to top speed.

Please note,if manual notching is used,you lose manual operation of compressor and fan (F9 & F10),these can be made automatic by giving CV112 a value of 3.

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Posted by maxman on Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:04 PM

oregon shay
and CV-116 at 2

If you have CV-116 = 2, I don't think you have manual notching.  I'm not sure that a value of 2 is even a valid value.  I think a value of 2 means that you have bit 1 activated, but bit 0 is still at zero.  If bit 0 has a value of zero, then I think there is a conflict between the manual notching bit zero and the bit 1 AN1 bit.  Bit 1 is identified as AN1 on page 68.  I don't see where they exactly identify what the "AN" means, but I'm guessing that it means Automatic Notching.  I can see where a value of 3 would work properly, where this would deactivate manual notching but allow for some automatic notching.

I think, but could be wrong, that for manual notching you need bits 0, 1, 2, and 3 to all have a value of zero.

I see that the default value for CV 116 is 39.  Then only way that I can get things to add to that number would be if bit 5 (ASE) is enabled [value of 32]; bit 2 (AN2) is enabled [value of 4]; bit 1 [AN1] is enabled [value of 2]; and bit 0 (AN0 automatic notching) is disabled [value of 1)     32+4+2+1 =39 

  • Member since
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  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
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Posted by oregon shay on Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:40 PM

Maxman,

That is my understanding as well.  When I attempt to use the F9 key to manipulate the prime mover sounds, I get the squeal/release default sound.  I tried a total reset this AM, resetting CV-8, but after re-entering the relevant values for manual notching, the decoder still doesn't behave according to the technical reference.  I really do like the prime mover sounds using lots of momentum (CVs 3 and 4 at 255) and quick notching via CV-2 at 0 and CV-116 at 2, and am satisfied with that.  A call to Soundtraxx tomorrow hopefully will shed some light on this issue.  Thanks for your help.

Wilton.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,879 posts
Posted by maxman on Saturday, May 18, 2013 8:24 PM

oregon shay

A little additional information.  With CV 116 set at 0 (also an option according to Soundtraxx), I do have movement, but no prime mover sounds.

Wilton.

As I understand page 68 of the technical reference, http://www.soundtraxx.com/manuals/tsunami_diesel_technical_reference_0213.pdf, if CV116= 0, then you should have manual notching using F9 and F10, and the engine rpm will not increase/decrease unless you use those two function keys.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • 274 posts
Posted by oregon shay on Saturday, May 18, 2013 6:49 PM

A little additional information.  With CV 116 set at 0 (also an option according to Soundtraxx), I do have movement, but no prime mover sounds.

Wilton.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • 274 posts
Seeking "manual notching" advice - Genesis GP7
Posted by oregon shay on Saturday, May 18, 2013 6:39 PM

I am interested in experiencing the difference in performance using manual vs. automatic notching on my HO Athearn Genesis GP7 with a factory-installed Tsunami decoder.  Currently, CV 2 is at 0, CVs 3 and 4 are set at 255, CV 116 is set at 2.  With the loco selected, the prime mover starts up when the Digitrax DT402 throttle is briefly advanced to 1 and back to 0, as expected.  Acceleration and deceleration are smooth, and the prime mover sounds are in sync.  When I enable manual notching, CV 116 set to 16 (I also tried 80), and using F9 to "start" the prime mover per Soundtraxx's Diesel User Guide, there is no engine sound, or movement when I advance the throttle.  I do have lights (but they don't change direction when I reverse throttle direction), horn and bell sounds.  I set CVs 3 and 4 to 0, but it has no effect.  F8 is not enabled (mute).  What am I overlooking?  Any insight would be appreciated.

Wilton.

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