Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Solder rail joiners at turnouts or not

6708 views
23 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: Detroit, Michigan
  • 2,284 posts
Posted by Soo Line fan on Monday, April 22, 2013 9:10 PM

JoeinPA

A joiner insures a solid soldered joint. Without the joiner you are left with a butt joint that will be of questionable strength.

Joe

Absolutely, and with the joiner it is a much quicker job. You want to get in and out fast to avoid melting the ties.

Removal is easy if you use a de-soldering tool.

Jim

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 2,455 posts
Posted by wp8thsub on Monday, April 22, 2013 8:59 PM

gregc

why do you need a rail joiner if you going to solder the rails together?

 
I've known a local layout or two where the builders have refused to use rail joiners at soldered joints.  Pronounced changes in temperature and humidity caused repeated failures in the butt joints, a problem continuing for the life of the layouts.  The same changes didn't affect my soldered joints reinforced by joiners, no matter how long my track had been around.  Unreinforced butt joints are weak.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Pittsburgh, PA
  • 1,796 posts
Posted by JoeinPA on Monday, April 22, 2013 8:36 PM

gregc

why do you need a rail joiner if you going to solder the rails together?

if there is no rail joiner, it is not difficult to unsolder rails to separate them for service

Greg:

A joiner insures a solid soldered joint. Without the joiner you are left with a butt joint that will be of questionable strength.

Joe

  • Member since
    November 2012
  • 613 posts
Posted by UPinCT on Monday, April 22, 2013 7:51 PM

Another vote here for soldering every joiner for electrical reliability.  I paint the rails with Floquil paint makers for weathering and by the time you glue your ballast  down you could diminish electric connectivity.

Derek

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Klamath Falls, Oregon
  • 274 posts
Posted by oregon shay on Monday, April 22, 2013 7:41 PM

Greg,

I have found that the joiners help to hold the joint in good alignment, especially with flex track, coming out of a curve connecting to a turnout; or on a curve, helping to prevent kinks.  As mentioned above, it's straightforward to cut through or unsolder a joiner when needed - they are rather thin.

Wilton.

  • Member since
    July 2009
  • From: lavale, md
  • 4,678 posts
Posted by gregc on Monday, April 22, 2013 7:17 PM

why do you need a rail joiner if you going to solder the rails together?

if there is no rail joiner, it is not difficult to unsolder rails to separate them for service

greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: US
  • 2,455 posts
Posted by wp8thsub on Monday, April 22, 2013 3:17 PM

Many people bring up the electrical conductivity issue, but fewer seem to consider alignment.  Alignment around a turnout, especially coming into the points, is critical for ensuring derailment-free operation.  A soldered joint is less likely to be shifted and cause trouble later with equipment being able to traverse it properly.  If you feel it necessary to leave a lot of unsoldered joints due to expansion/contraction concerns, it's still worth considering soldering the point ends of turnout stock rails.

Rob Spangler

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,668 posts
Posted by rrebell on Monday, April 22, 2013 1:26 PM

MisterBeasley

For maintenance reasons, I generally leave them unsoldered, but there are a couple of exceptions.

If a turnout is connected to a section of flex track which is curved, I like to solder that joint to keep the sideways pressure from the flex track from forming a kink.

Also, if I've got a complex section of trackwork in an awkward space, I'll solder the whole thing together so that problems don't show up later after a lot of scenery has grown up aroung the track.

I think I will go with your way as there are just too many joints and being in a garage the expansion factor could come up at a later date. When assessing the situation I did find an unsolder-ed drop on a siding so I now have a reason to break out the iron and stuff!

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Monday, April 22, 2013 9:53 AM

For maintenance reasons, I generally leave them unsoldered, but there are a couple of exceptions.

If a turnout is connected to a section of flex track which is curved, I like to solder that joint to keep the sideways pressure from the flex track from forming a kink.

Also, if I've got a complex section of trackwork in an awkward space, I'll solder the whole thing together so that problems don't show up later after a lot of scenery has grown up aroung the track.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    April 2002
  • 921 posts
Posted by dante on Sunday, April 21, 2013 9:49 PM

I agree with Texas Zepher and as Mobilman44 says, you can always go back later and solder connections that  eventually lose conductivity.  Full disclosure:  my layout room is environmentally controlled, my benchwork and roadbed is painted to minimize moisture absorption, I use Walthers/Shinohara Code 83 rail joiners which are very snug on their Code 83 flex and turnouts (Atlas joiners are looser) and I treated each rail end with No-Ox before joining. No problems so far after almost 10 months after full operation began.

Dante

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,592 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:47 PM

rrebell
Why do you have to replace switches so often?

Mostly because I change my mind on what the layout is supposed to do and how it is supposed to do it. I seldom if ever replace a switch because of derailment issues. Call them "Editors Changes."

Not to mention the fact that most of these switches are on their third or fourth layout, or at least installation on the same layout.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: Southeast Texas
  • 5,449 posts
Posted by mobilman44 on Sunday, April 21, 2013 5:14 PM

On my previous layout I soldered almost all of the turnout joints.  On the more recent layout, I did if it appeared to need it.   I guess maybe 20 percent or so are soldered.  I approached it individually, and made the decision when I laid the track.  Hey, if need be you can always come back and solder.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:59 PM

rrebell
Just wonder what the rest of you do and if you feel it was the right decision?

I don't solder any rail joiners except for those on flex track on curves.   In addition to being the highest maintenance piece of track, turnouts are most likely to be involved with track changes.  Our club used to solder.  It became so time consuming and such a nightmare unsoldering them we ruined many in the process.   With unsoldered joints it was just a matter of sliding the joiners back popping the turnout for repair / replacement / change left to right / whatever and then sliding the joiners back on - done.

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
  • 25,640 posts
Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Sunday, April 21, 2013 3:22 PM

I solder all rail joiners including the turnouts. I found out long ago that the one rail joiner that fails to conduct power is the one that didn't get soldered. If I need to replace a turn out I cut the old one out, remove the joiners and replace them with new joiners, install the new turnout and solder it in.

Running Bear, Sundown, Louisiana
          Joined June, 2004

Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running Bear
Space Mouse for president!
15 year veteran fire fighter
Collector of Apple //e's
Running Bear Enterprises
History Channel Club life member.
beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam


  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,668 posts
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:49 PM

BroadwayLion

LION solders switches in place. LION even solders several switches together on the bench and brings the whole assembly to the layout.

What if? What if LION wants to remove switch. It happens often enough that the LION knows how to do this.

You cut the rail joiner with a motor tool., turnout lifts right out. It is now easy to flick the remaining rail joiner halves away with the soldering iron.

Repair or replace switch, push new rail joiners on to track all the way past the end of the joiner, drop the switch in place and bring up the joiners to make the connection and solder them in place.

ROAR

Why do you have to replace switches so often????????????

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: North Dakota
  • 9,592 posts
Posted by BroadwayLion on Sunday, April 21, 2013 2:44 PM

LION solders switches in place. LION even solders several switches together on the bench and brings the whole assembly to the layout.

What if? What if LION wants to remove switch. It happens often enough that the LION knows how to do this.

You cut the rail joiner with a motor tool., turnout lifts right out. It is now easy to flick the remaining rail joiner halves away with the soldering iron.

Repair or replace switch, push new rail joiners on to track all the way past the end of the joiner, drop the switch in place and bring up the joiners to make the connection and solder them in place.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

da1
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Alberta, Canada
  • 219 posts
Posted by da1 on Sunday, April 21, 2013 1:01 PM

Mr Rrebell,

Every piece of rail - EVERY - is connected to the distribution system by soldered or screw terminal connection, or combination there of.  If the rail does not have a direct connection of its own, then it is soldered to a rail that has a direct connection.  Rail joiners provide alignment only, no electrical reliability. 

In the end you pays your money you takes your chances.  What is right for you needs to consider many factors, including environment,  skill level and resources.

Finally, if you are using DCC ensure that your work passes the quarter test at all locations, including turnout points and frogs.

Have fun.  Dwayne A.

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Sunday, April 21, 2013 12:16 PM

If your layout is located in a NASA clean room, where the variances in temperature and humidity are held to optimum plus or minus 1%, then by all means solder every rail joiner that isn't at an insulating gap.

My layout space is the diametric opposite of a NASA clean room - dusty, outdoor ambient humidity and annual temperature swing of close to 100 degrees F.  And, thanks to a gas water heater, climate control isn't going to happen.

So I let my rail joints slide, lay rail with appropriate gaps (which do open and close with changing temperature) and assure electrical continuity by soldering a jumper around every uninsulated joiner.  I learned a long time ago not to depend on rail joiners to conduct track power.  The jumpers can flex easily, allowing the rails to expand or contract unimpeded.

As for rail joints at turnouts - I avoid them by using full-length stick rail for stock rails and rails that extend to and beyond the clearance points on the diverging tracks from the frog point.  When you hand-lay in place you don't have those six rail joints located just where they're most likely to be troublesome...

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: Maryland
  • 12,897 posts
Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:57 AM

Motley

I solder every joint, including switches. It requires less feeders and you get a solid joint on all these connections and no kinks either.

Some say don't do that, I don't understand why not. And un-soldering the joint is very easy if I have to remove a switch or section of track.

Same here, have been since the 1960's. Soldered rail joints mean no electrical problems.

Sheldon

    

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • 533 posts
Posted by CascadeBob on Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:40 AM

I solder the joints at the point-end of the turnout.  I'm using Peco Electrofrog turnouts  and have insulating joiners on the ends of the two frog rails.  The other two rails at the frog end are not soldered.  This way I can connect power leads to either the turnout itself or the track connected (soldered) to the point end of the turnout.  The important thing to remember is not to rely on loose unsoldered rail joiners to carry power from one section of track/turnout to the next.  You don't have to solder every joint as long as you have power connected to those track sections not receiving power from another powered track section through a soldered joint.

Bob

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • 893 posts
Posted by PennCentral99 on Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:38 AM

You're going to get a multitude of opinions and "how to's". The "right decision" will be whatever you think is best for you.

Over the years, I have learned that electric model railroad engines need a constant supply of electricity to run  Smile, Wink & Grin. Turnouts are one the most troublesome places to maintain electrical contact. In a turnout (switch), there are many things that can cause a break in continuity or cause the loco to "raise up" and lose contact: point rail, closure rail, frog, guard rail (not to mention any ballast that may get stuck in these small spaces). It is important to maintain electrical contact through these; so, your choices are to run feeders to every piece of rail or solder the joints to maintain electrical supply.

My method: I run feeders to my turnout joints (all 6) AND solder them. Thumbs Up

Inspired by Addiction

See more on my YouTube Channel

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Denver, CO
  • 3,576 posts
Posted by Motley on Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:09 AM

I solder every joint, including switches. It requires less feeders and you get a solid joint on all these connections and no kinks either.

Some say don't do that, I don't understand why not. And un-soldering the joint is very easy if I have to remove a switch or section of track.

Michael


CEO-
Mile-HI-Railroad
Prototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989

  • Member since
    September 2010
  • 547 posts
Posted by eaglescout on Sunday, April 21, 2013 11:09 AM

I don't solder turnouts.  Everything I have read says if you need to service or replace a turnout you can slip back the rail connector until the turnout is free and then replace it the same way.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: west coast
  • 7,668 posts
Solder rail joiners at turnouts or not
Posted by rrebell on Sunday, April 21, 2013 10:51 AM

Just wonder what the rest of you do and if you feel it was the right decision?

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!