HELP!With ATLAS Commander

[Doughless]

TwoHotDodge:

What you have is an Atlas "Master" Series locomotive.  Not a gold.  Not a Silver.  

The Atlas Master series was popular before sound became the rage, so the decoder that is inside the locomotive is for controlling the locomotives movement only, (including the headlights).  The commander is used to control the decoder.  In order for it to run on DCC, the jumper plug must be physically placed in the right slots.  Otherwise, it will be a DC locomotive and you will need a DC powerpack to run it.  The "Master" Series locomotive is older technology.  It works fine...

But it doesn't support sound.  And have others have said, the shape of the weights make it difficult to install a proper speaker. 

IIRC, about 2006, Atlas redesigned the GP38's innards to use either a dual mode dcc/dc decoder and sound, or, a straight dc board with no sound.  With the redesign, the names changed.  "Master" no longer applies and they are now "Gold" and "Silver" series.  The gold has the dual mode decoder and sound.  The silver has the board, but the weights inside are formed to accept a speaker, so converting a "Silver" to sound is easier.  The problem is that the price difference between a Gold and Silver is about a hundred bucks, but a sound decoder and speaker are at least a hundred bucks, so just buying a Gold is usually a better deal (and less trouble) than buying a Silver and converting it to sound.

The Atlas Gold is dual mode, which means that it will operate on either DC or DCC right out of the box.  You can control some sounds with a DC power pack too.

To get the full effect of the sound, you'll need a QSI sound controller, which is called the "Quantum Engineer", which hooks up to a standard DC powerpack, or a real DCC system (I do not know if the Commander DCC system can control sound)

IMO, you should sell the locomotive you have and buy a locomotive with onboard sound already installed, since converting the one you have will be a pain in the neck, not to mention an extra hundred bucks or so for the decoder and speaker.  A real "Gold" locomotive will have onboard sound.

Then controlling the locomotive and its sound will come down to several choices:  A plain DC power pack ( limiting your sound capabilities), the quantum engineer (about 20 to 40 bucks used on ebay), a real DCC starter system (about 150 bucks), or possibly the Commander if it supports sound.

Good luck

[twohotdodge]

Yes I believe it is an older master,so now the decision is coming,all dcc or just one gold loco???

[rrinker]

 No, he has an older Master Series, which probably has a DCC motor decoder, but uses a jumper to switch between DC and DCC. No sound. No A frame for the speakers.

                 --Randy

 

[maxman]

Texas Zepher

Atlas uses an "A" frame arrangement that takes round speakers.

Based upon the information given by the OP, I'm not sure that the model he has uses that A-frame.

[Texas Zepher]

twohotdodge

,get an atlas master gp38 and lo and behold it's not a gold series,

I made that mistake.   Mine was an SD24.   Sigh.

what do i have to add to get the sound functions??

That would be the addition of a sound decoder and speakers.   From the factory Atlas generally use QSI brand sound processors.   The QSI  Model for a "drop in" replacement of the existing circuit board is a Titan-A.  The first one in this list  http://www.qsisolutions.com/products/index.html   This is manufacture's list price which no one pays.  I would think you could find one closer to $95.

The speakers might be a bit trickier.   Atlas uses an "A" frame arrangement that takes round speakers.  Do not know what size.

As Randy says, it might be easier (and maybe even more economical) to buy a sound equipped  locomotive and sell the one you already have.

[rrinker]

 Gold series are DC/DCC. They won;t run with other DC locos in multi unit consists, but NO sound loco on DC will - unless you want to put up with the loco moving at half speed before the sounds even turn on. Nature of the beast.

 You also do not want to EVER EVER connect your DC power pack and a DCC unit like the Atlas Commander to the track at the same time. Things WILL be destroyed doing this.

 Your most economical approach, really, if you just want to have one sound loco, is get a Gold series Atlas model, or something similar, that already has sound, and get something like the MRC Tech 6 power pack, it can run either DC or DCC locos, so you can run all your existing stuff same as before, plus also be able to access all the sounds of a DCC sound loco.

          --Randy

 

[maxman]

twohotdodge

Ok thats what i was thinking but are the gold series dc compatible?That was the whole point of this purchase not to have to change to dcc!!

I'm afraid at this point that I'm not sure what you have or what you want to do.  I believe you said that the loco you bought was a Silver series, not a Gold.  The Silver series model you have seems to have come with a jumper that allows you to run the loco on DC in one position, or DCC in the other.  If really the Silver series, it does not have sound and you would have to purchase a sound decoder.

 

Some sound decoders come with an 8-pin plug.  If you have a  model with a jumper, I don't believe that you can just plug that sound decoder in.  You would have to purchase a sound decoder that has the same circuit board format (style) as the existing circuit board.  Other Atlas locos come with an 8-pin socket.  If you have one of those, you can plug a sound decoder in.  However, in both cases you would have to do some mechanical modifications to allow for the placement of the speaker plus a capacitor if supplied.  In either case, the new sound decoder will allow you to run the loco on DC or DCC as long as the decoder is sold as dual mode.  I believe that some are not.

 

If you run a sound loco on DC, you will find that it takes a higher voltage to get it moving.  That has to do with the sound decoder circuit.  Concerning the actual operability of a sound decoder on DC, there are varying opinions which others are more qualified to render.

 

I don't know anything about the Atlas Commander unit other than what was posted by someone above.  Apparently it has limited DCC capability.  I don't know if it can operate a DCC loco in DC mode.

 

Please note that from what I can gather from other posters there seems to be an opinion that given the choice of a DC loco where the purchaser has to install the sound decoder or the same loco with a sound decoder installed, the preference would be to buy the unit with the sound decoder installed.  The assumes, of course, that the purchaser wants a sound unit (some don't and that's another topic) and that the decoder pre-installed is one that the buyer prefers.

 

I believe that you said something about wanting to be economical.  Unfortunately if you have the loco I think you have and have to shell out for a sound decoder, it becomes a case of taking such large steps to save a pair of $50 shoes that you split your $100 pants.  Just my worthless opinion of course!

[twohotdodge]

Ok thats what i was thinking but are the gold series dc compatible?That was the whole point of this purchase not to have to change to dcc!!

[Mark R.]

Keep in mind that the Atlas Commander isn't real user friendly for using sound equipped engines. Even if it's the latest version, it can only access functions 0 through 4, and none of those functions are momentary, which makes blowing the horn cumbersome.

Sound decoders also usually use F8 for sound control. Loksound decoders require the use of F8 just to turn the sound on. Since the Commander can't access F8, it will need to be remapped to either F3 or F4 just to turn it on.

Mark.

[rrinker]

 The older Atlas master series locos have a motor decoder, but it does not automatically switch between DC and DCC, there is a jumper inside you need to change to the DCC position. They do not have sound. You will need to replace the board with a new sound decoder and add a speaker - the speaker part is the more difficult thing since on a loco not made for it, you will likely have to cut away some of the weight to make room. Installing a sound decoder is probably not the thing for a first decoder install.

 If you want ready to go sound in an Atlas loco, the newer Gold series have DCC and sound. The newer Silver series are pretty easy to install DCC and sound, as they still have the speaker mounts from the Gold series, so you only need install the same size speakers as used in the Gold series, in an existing mounting bracket.

                --Randy

 

[maxman]

twohotdodge

So am I to believe the decoder in the unit is a function decoder and not for sound or light effects???

Most/all decoders found in a loco control the motor and the lights.  A sound decoder does that and adds the sound and normally more advanced lighting functions.

 

In your other post you mentioned that you "moved a connector".  What did you mean by that?  Was it a small 4 or 6-pin jumper that got moved from one position to another?  If it has that what you have installed is an Atlas dual mode decoder.  Did the insides of the model look like this: http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionAtlas/Assembly%20Explosion%20Atlas%20GP-38%20pg2.jpg http://hoseeker.net/assemblyexplosionAtlas/Assembly%20Explosion%20Atlas%20GP-38%20pg2.jpg

 

I am not aware of any sound decoders that require one to move a connector (jumper) to operate on DC/DCC.  They sort of do that automatically.  If the inside of the loco looks like the link above, then the seller either did not know what he was talking about, or he misrepresented what he was selling.

[twohotdodge]

So am I to believe the decoder in the unit is a function decoder and not for sound or light effects???

[twohotdodge]

Yeah  whats even worse is I contacted seller to make sure this had sound,there is a decoder inside,I had to move a connector to get it to run on dc,do i just need a speaker???No help on atlsas site???thanks for helping!!

[maxman]

For whatever reason I can't seem to find a part diagram for a Master Silver Series GP 38 on Atla's website.  But if this unit is like other Atlas Master Series Gold/Silver models the circuit board should have an 8-pin plug for a decoder.  There should be a framework over the rear truck for installing a speaker.  On non-sound units they put a weight in the frame in place of the speaker.  However, absent a drawing or other information, you probably should remove the body shell to check what's actually inside.

It is unfortunate that what you bought didn't come with sound installed if that's what you originally thought you were purchasing.

[locoi1sa]

Economical?  Not used in this realm of the hobby. You will need to add a sound decoder and speaker to the locomotive. Depending on which type of decoder you can look at one of these.

http://www.traintekllc.com/ESU-73700-LokSound-Select-Direct-HO-Sound-Decoder/productinfo/ESU-73700/     This decoder does not include a speaker.

Or this type of decoder.

http://www.traintekllc.com/ESU-73400-LokSound-Select-6-AUX-HO-Sound-Decoder/productinfo/ESU-73400/    This decoder includes a speaker but will need to be wired in or if there is an 8 pin plug.

              Pete

[twohotdodge]

OK so i get a commander of the ebay,get an atlas master gp38 and lo and behold it's not a gold series,what do i have to add to get the sound functions??I was trying to do this economically as I would onyl have one sound equipped loco to show the grandkids!!