I am planning on using suitcase connectors to wire my layout, and have a supply of the pink IDC's (#558) on hand. I am working with N scale Kato Unitrack and their feeder sections use 24AWG wire, which I would like to connect directly to the bus wires running under the layout.
The #558's are apparently designed for 16-22AWG sizes, so my question is would the pink suitcase connectors work with the smaller Kato supplied 24AWG wire? I could always solder the wires if necessary but the IDC's are a much more convenient option.
I rather doubt it. I have #905(red) suitcase connectors. The are set up for #14/#18 bus and #18/22 feeders. My #14 bus wiring fits in them perfect. I tried to use #22 feeder wires, but they were just too small for the 3M brand Scotch-Lock connectors to made a reliable connection. I happened to find a LHS that was going our of business and got a good deal on spools of #20 wire(I think it was Atlas). When you get into small wire sizes, the diameter of the insulation makes a big difference You can always use a 'butt' connector to transition from you #24 Kato wire to something more reliable if you find that you have problems with the connections. I would setup a test of the proposed wiring with typical runs of bus wiring and several IDC feeder drops and take voltage reading to see if there is a problem.
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
There is a reason they are illegal to use on an aircraft.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
They should be illegal to use on a child's big wheel car.
One advantage of the suitcase connectors of course is the mechanical process of connecting beneath your layout, versus soldering there (though people do that as well). If you don't have tons of 24AWG feeder tracks, perhaps consider a 2-step approach: soldering a piece of 22AWG feeder extension at the workbench, covered by a piece of shrink tubing to insulate. Then use the suitcase connectors under the table, connecting the 22AWG to the buss wire. I used the 3M 558 connectors successfully with 16AWG stranded (from Lowes) feeder and 22AWG solid feeders (from Hobby Engineering). Strongly suggest not buying off-brand IDCs.
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
Not quite a fair comparison to a train layout...
Aircraft...lots of vibration, varying temperature extremes and pressures, and often miles high and often several hundreds of miles from a place to land, and lastly their not FAA approved bc they probably arent safe in the above conditions for years buried inside an airplane's wiring bundles.
Train layout...very little vibration, temperature nearly constant depending on location, and always stationary.
I fly airplanes for a living and have a medium sized train layout. I know a thing or two about both. Comparing the practical uses of a suitcase connector with these two examples is not a logical argument for or against them.
With that said, I used them to connect 22awg feeders to my track with solder and connected to the14awg bus wire with 3M suitcase connectors. Works fine,quick and easy. No shorts, failures, or fires. Would do it just the same again if I was to do it over.
After chasing intermittent power losses on a prior club unit that used suitcase connectors til I was blue in the face, we finally got permission to kill layout operations for a few weeks til each and every one of them was eliminated, soldered and taped. Funny thing,,,,,the problems disappeared!
Never again will I use them. A physical connection as a proper splice is the ONLY permanent wire repair!
.
Karl
NCE über alles!
I'm currently wiring my 15' x 16' HO layout and the IDC 905 red connectors have been a godsend connecting #22 solid feeder wires every 3 linear feet to a #14 track buss. But I wouldn't recommend using #22 stranded with IDC's because the wires tend to spread when compressing the IDC spade which can cause a weak connection.
Just be sure to compress the IDC spade fully with your pliers and then give the #22 a stiff 'tug' test before closing the IDC cover. I messed up the first couple of IDC's attempted because the plier jaws didn't stay aligned 90 degrees to the end of the IDC while making sure the #22 wire was fully inserted which caused the compression spade to shift and crushing the plastic housing when I squeezed the pliers.
Like most things, if you do things right during the process the results will be right.....
I avoided suitcases. What's do is: strip feeder wire 1" from end with stripper. Cut insulation of the bus wire (as if stripping, but only make the cut gesture not the remove gesture) in two places and then slice away with a hobby knife. You will have a nice bare bus wire. Just wrap the feeder around this bare wire. The connection will be pretty solid. Lateron when you come around to it, solder. But not soldering works quite well.
Thanks for all the advice guys. I will probably go ahead and skip the IDC's and just make a physical connection between the feeders and the bus by splicing them together just to be certain. Seems like it's the most reliable option given the #24 feeder wire I have to work with.
the more you strip and solder wire connections, the better and faster you will become at doing it. then the need for the alternative methods will lessen.
be happy in your work,
charlie
My new build is #905 IDC's on 14 AWG bus and 18 AWG feeders with a 3 inch piece of 22 AWG soldered to the 18 for soldering to the track. The18 and 22 ga is solid wire. My wiring is done and not one glitch with the IDC's and also the speed of this method really helps. I make my feeders (18 to 22 ga soldering) at the bench ahead of time knowing aprox length then trim and attach to the bus with the #905 IDC's Doug
kbkchooch After chasing intermittent power losses on a prior club unit that used suitcase connectors til I was blue in the face, we finally got permission to kill layout operations for a few weeks til each and every one of them was eliminated, soldered and taped. Funny thing,,,,,the problems disappeared! Never again will I use them. A physical connection as a proper splice is the ONLY permanent wire repair!
I don't doubt your experience, but would note that YMMV.
If using the proper 3M IDCs for the wiring used and proper installation procedures, IDCs are reliable. If no-name IDCs are squeezed on in haste over a wide range of wire sizes outside the specified ones, they can be maddening.
So my take would be to either use IDCs properly or solder away. It's really more about personal preference in model railroading applications.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I use 3M's, and only 3M's.
Funny thing is they have been on both of my boat trailers for years, never a problem.
You get what you pay for.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
You would be amazed how much vibration happens around supposedly solid, immovable layouts!
As for suitcase connectors, why spend $ for those silly things when you can get the same results now (and better results in the long run) with solder? Or is your time so valuable that expense is no object? (My own layout has, literally, thousands of connections. If I used these things could end up spending more on wire connections than I have on rail.)
This is the second thread in a week on suitcase connectors. I still define them as trash can filler.
Chuck (Ex USAF flight line tech modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
tomikawaTTAs for suitcase connectors, why spend $ for those silly things when you can get the same results now (and better results in the long run) with solder?
Because I have difficulty soldering overhead, and I have difficulty getting under the layout to solder.
maxman tomikawaTTAs for suitcase connectors, why spend $ for those silly things when you can get the same results now (and better results in the long run) with solder? Because I have difficulty soldering overhead, and I have difficulty getting under the layout to solder.
So do what I do. Route all your electricals along the layout edge, just inside the fascia line. When wiring, the only thing that goes under the layout is a straightened wire coathanger - perfect hook for bringing vertical wires out to the aisle, where I connect them to whatever they need to connect to. All done while sitting comfortably on a repurposed kitchen chair.
I absolutely detest spelunking under the benchwork, so I designed to make it unnecessary.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with bulletproof, accessible electricals)
Chevy vs Ford argument, have used them for decades. No problems......ever.
I would like to see a picture of your layout Chuck, been hearing about it for years, I'm intrigued.
Geared Steam Chevy vs Ford argument, have used them for decades. No problems......ever. I would like to see a picture of your layout Chuck, been hearing about it for years, I'm intrigued.
That's easy to answer, in the 30's Fords were better, in the 50's and 60's Chevy's were better, today Fords are once again the better car.
And I don't use suitcase connectors either - for all the same reasons as Chuck. But I don't skin insulation off wires mid run and solder "drops" on to them either. Being an industrial control electrician by original training, such "rats nest" practices are simply not allowed to enter my thinking.
Yes my layout is wired like a piece of process machinery in a factory - no wiring failures or problems tracing wires here. Everything is carefully labeled and documented.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Geared Steam Chevy vs Ford argument, have used them for decades. No problems......ever. I would like to see a picture of your layout Chuck, been hearing about it for years, I'm intrigued. That's easy to answer, in the 30's Fords were better, in the 50's and 60's Chevy's were better, today Fords are once again the better car.Sheldon
That's easy to answer, in the 30's Fords were better, in the 50's and 60's Chevy's were better, today Fords are once again the better car.Sheldon
No, its opinion, as are the suitcase connectors debate. I'm not sure sure how you have seen the connectors used, but it doesn't equate to to a "rats nest of wiring" in my case.
My 96 C1500 has 235,000 miles on it, original except for alternator, starter and a fuel pump, how ever I discovered I need to replace the drivers side ball joint. And this isn't a grocery getter, its a truck, and I use it as such.
My 2004 Ford Explorer with 135,000 has gone thru a set of ball joints, an alternator, a fuel rail pressure sensor, heater blend door (front and back), starter, water pump, passenger power window motor, windshield wiper motor and a power brake booster.
My 2004 Cadillac CTS 3.6 liter with 90K hasn't gone thru anything besides a battery.
My 1993 Lowe 21" Deckboat used 3M's from the factory, the electricals are all work, 20 years later, with 100% Louisiana humidity, in a marine environment.
I rewire my 1978 Skeeter bass boat about ten years ago, guess what I used?
You can keep your Ford, I have had my last one, and I still use 3M suitcase connectors, with no failures.
We will agree to disagree. But what do I know? I'm just a redneck with pickup, and a gun, been there, done that, got the T-shirt and the scars to prove it.
And my 2000 F150 has 193,000 miles and just as good a service record as your Chevy - but it does not rattle like every Chevy I ever kept for 10 years - so what?
The four Explorers our family has owned since 1995 never had those kinds of issues - so what?
GM builds good cars and trucks, but currently I'm not sold on turning off cylinders, or front wheel drive, so they won't get any of my money any time soon.
The two Crown Vics we owned (1997 & 2002 - both with the high performance package) where two of the best riding, most comfortable cars I have ever owned - never a service problem - and way less expensive than a Caddy.
Our 2012 Ford Flex with its all wheel drive and 365 HP twin Turbo Ecoboost 3.5L V6 is however the best car I have owned since I owned a Checker Marathon - fast, comfortable, upright seating, loads of room and good fuel economy.
But my 1995 GRAVELY 16-G garden tractor has out performed all of them so far - still going strong and looks brand new.
As for suit case connectors, well I'm glad you have good luck with them. But we would have never used them to wire the robots in the GM plant that was here in Baltimore, and I don't have any use for them on my equipment or model railroad.
The car comment was really meant tongue in cheek, sorry you took it so serious.
Geared SteamI'm just a redneck with pickup
Don't know which pickup you have, but I'll bet it's much better looking than that god-awful Flex thing.
My buddy converted me after I put my "nolix" up and realized how much soldering I'd be doing. #22 to #14 will work (I use the blue ones) if you put two #22's into the appropriate spot, make sure to press down hard with pliers and do a continuity test. He's done this years ago on his layout and all are still working just fine. Once I have any continuity problems sorted out (occasionally its easy not to press down hard enough with the pliers) I haven't had any problems with this set up.
For the double #22's to work, I solder every Peco 55 flextrack at the joints (many are isolated using the plastic rail joiners or inserting styrene between the track) then suitcase onto my #14 bus wires. So lets say there are four Peco 55 flextracks along the mainline, I'll solder the ends of the first and second track, then go to the ends (where they meet) of the third and fourth track and solder, and suit case connect those.
I was sceptical at first when I heard about this method, but necessity being a mother, I re-evaluated my doubts and all has been fine.
To All,,,,
My dog is bigger and better,than your dog,,,,,,LOL,,,
Cheers,
Frank
maxman Geared SteamI'm just a redneck with pickup Don't know which pickup you have, but I'll bet it's much better looking than that god-awful Flex thing.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I'm sure what ever you drive is likely ugly by my standards, since I think most cars built in the last several decades are either ugly or boring, or both.
Here is a good looking car:
And this is really just a modernized version of it: But I don't buy cars based on looks, I buy cars that meet my functional needs, comfort and ease of entry/exit for my wife who has rheumatoid arthritis being one of those needs. I have no use for cars that have you sitting on a boat cushion inches from the road. As for cars that look good, the 1958 Chevy Impala is my all time favorite. Sheldon
And this is really just a modernized version of it:
But I don't buy cars based on looks, I buy cars that meet my functional needs, comfort and ease of entry/exit for my wife who has rheumatoid arthritis being one of those needs. I have no use for cars that have you sitting on a boat cushion inches from the road. As for cars that look good, the 1958 Chevy Impala is my all time favorite. Sheldon
But I don't buy cars based on looks, I buy cars that meet my functional needs, comfort and ease of entry/exit for my wife who has rheumatoid arthritis being one of those needs. I have no use for cars that have you sitting on a boat cushion inches from the road.
As for cars that look good, the 1958 Chevy Impala is my all time favorite.
And, back to the issued of suit case connectors. I don't need them on my layout because I don't have or need a "feeder buss". All my rail joints are soldered and each isolated track section is fed with a single drop that runs directly to terminal block on a relay board that it used in by push button controlled Advanced Cab Control system.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBeauty is in the eye of the beholder, I'm sure what ever you drive is likely ugly by my standards, since I think most cars built in the last several decades are either ugly or boring, or both.
I don't believe that I used the word ugly in my post. However, if you feel that word is appropriate I'll agree with you.
maxman ATLANTIC CENTRALBeauty is in the eye of the beholder, I'm sure what ever you drive is likely ugly by my standards, since I think most cars built in the last several decades are either ugly or boring, or both. I don't believe that I used the word ugly in my post. However, if you feel that word is appropriate I'll agree with you.
No, you used an even more offensive term I chose not to repeat.
Have you driven or rode in a FLEX? Or are you just making a shallow judgment based on your standards of appearance?
ATLANTIC CENTRALOr are you just making a shallow judgment based on your standards of appearance?
Yes.