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Need help

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  • Member since
    March 2013
  • 10 posts
Need help
Posted by Vieredy on Monday, April 8, 2013 12:00 AM

I want to wire tortoise switch machines to my walthers double crossover (dcc friendly).  They will be controlled  by a toggle switch on my HO layout (powered by Digitrax) located on the fascia.  I need help with how to wire this and also if 2 or 4 switch machines is the way to go (I could buy the tortoise remote kit(s) to help.  Thanks 

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Posted by tstage on Monday, April 8, 2013 12:59 AM

Vieredy,

Just a suggestion.  It would be more helpful to the rest of the forum community if you could make your subject titles a little more definitive than just "Need help" - e.g. something like "Wiring a tortoise to a double crossover".  Otherwise, some folks may just glance right over your thread without even bothering to open it.

I'd liken it to opening a grocery business and just calling it "Store".  Most folks would probably walk right past it - i.e. until someone emerged pushing a cart of bags full of food.  Again, just a suggestion...

Tom

https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling

Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by peahrens on Monday, April 8, 2013 12:47 PM

I don't have any double crossovers but several singles.  I'm thinking that since only one train at a time can be crossing it's ok for all 4 throwbars to be oprated together by one electrical switch; i.e., at a given time when you are running a train across you won't need either route to be straight.

I'm assuming that each throwbar is independent and there's no mechanism on the crossover to operate them in tandem.  If that's so, I'd guess 4 Tortoises is appropriate, operated by the same control panel switch (e.g., DPDT), all wired in parallel to the Tortii teminals 1 & 8.  Which terminal depends on which way you orient the Tortoise (facing or away from the frog), etc, but you can simply swap them as needed (a good reason to use terminal strips near each Tortoise for easy adjustments). 

I did just test powering 4 Tortii at once on my layout (2 crossovers) and apparently there's plenty of juice for them to operate simultaneously.  I would not recommend the remote actuators for this if the Tortii fit readily underneath the throwbars physically.  I used one on my layout where I had to for space reasons but it's a bit trickier than just adding the Tortoise under the throwbar. 

Do have someone who's sure confirm this suggestion; I'm not 100% on it.

On another note, I took a look at the code 83 version, if that's what you're using.  I do wonder whether these are difficult for the longest cars you might run (e.g., long passenger cars, etc), as they seem to pose a potential "S-curve" issue at some point (maybe not for the longest items, but I don't know).  If so, one could revert to separate crossovers using smooth number turnouts or spread apart as needed.  Not trying to change the subject but just a reaction that you might want to be sure about. 

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/948-8812

Paul

Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent

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Posted by jrbernier on Monday, April 8, 2013 1:14 PM

  Since you are not going to use DCC to operate the Tortoise motors, just follow the 'included' instructions with the Tortoise - They give several wiring options for using a panel mounted toggle switch.

  Tortoise also sells a 'remote' link so you can 'slave' a turnout(like your cross-over) off off another turnout's Tortoise motor.  What you want to do has nothing to do with DCC or Digitrax(or DCC Friendly).  Just follow the included instructions.

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Monday, April 8, 2013 3:48 PM

LION has several double cross overs. Him uses four Tortoises for each crossover.   Yes, you can control all four with one switch : Normal or crossover.  LION prefers two switches since these will also control the signals and power routing to the tracks.

Actually, I have done it with one switch, an on-off-on toggle switch. You need two relays to make this work, but then that is just two switches controlled by one switch.

In former practice it could have taken eight levers to control that interlocking plant.

You have levers for the four signals, and then two levers for the iron. If this would be an Armstrong tower, you would need eight levers just for the switches.

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Monday, April 8, 2013 9:53 PM

Vieredy
I want to wire tortoise switch machines to my walthers double crossover  They will be controlled  by a toggle switch located on the fascia.  I need help with how to wire this

Can't be much easier.   The Toggle will be a DPDT in standard reversing configuration.   If you use multiple tortoise they would simply all be wired in parallel to the switch.

OR do you mean you need help wiring the hot frogs of the crossover?

and also if 2 or 4 switch machines is the way to go

That should probably be the first question. Depends on how much money you want to sink into the project.   In some ways using 4 is the easiest while 1 is definitely the cheapest.   So the way to go is what you want.

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Posted by Vieredy on Monday, April 8, 2013 9:58 PM

Tom,

duly noted.  First time for me and didn't think it through too well.  Thanks for the tip.

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Posted by Vieredy on Monday, April 8, 2013 10:05 PM

I want to thank everyone for their suggestions and perspective.  I just  installed 4 machines  and seems to be working fine.  I ran my longest cars thru this switch and they all run through fine with no derailments.  

Best wishes and keep on training

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Posted by NP01 on Tuesday, April 9, 2013 12:19 AM

4 tortoises is $60. That's a lot. Just today I was thinking about saving some tortoises from my layout by experimenting with mechanical linkages. I am not sure I am up to the task, but willing to try. 

Just something to think about down the line when you get more comfortable with tortoises. There is definitely a learning curve with mounting these. 

NP. 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Tuesday, April 9, 2013 10:29 AM

NP01
Just something to think about down the line when you get more comfortable with tortoises. There is definitely a learning curve with mounting these. 

Its only a learning curve if you follow their instructions. LION discards their instructions. Installing according to LION instructions is dead easy! Tortoise is very forgiving, you can do many things with it. If you have more skill then LION you could make a bell crank to operate two sets of points from on tortoise. Once you have motion, a skilled watch maker can make it do anything he wants. LION tried but gave up on that! Second tortoise cheaper than futzing around with mystery lynx!

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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