HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE, can anyone tell me if you can modify a shinohara turnout so that it works like the old ATLAS snap switches I am used to. I just got back into the hobby this year and things have REALLY changed alot. I laid all my track and switches on the main layout and I'm beginning to wire my blocks but when I try to change switch direction the engine looses power.I plan to use tortise switch machines so I know the train will have to be stopped while the switch is thrown.I don't know if there is anything Ican do to change the way the switch operates or if I just have to deal with it. Thank you in advance, JOE
For Shinohara turnouts not to short out in the non-direction of travel, the frog rail must be gaped. Then you have to add a feeder to the rail after the gap.
What you have is a metal frog that changes polarity when the turnout route changes when the points change. You can trace the electrical path from one rail, through the points, then through the frog to the other rail and see where and how the short occurs. All you have to do is gap both rails coming from the diverging end of the frog. (Not the point end of the frog)
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
JHinPAcan anyone tell me if you can modify a shinohara turnout so that it works like the old ATLAS snap switches I am used to.
I just got back into the hobby this year and things have REALLY changed alot.
plan to use tortise switch machines so I know the train will have to be stopped while the switch is thrown.
OK then TEXAS ZEPHER how bout you tell me how you did your wiring back in 1st grade cause apparently I am still in kindergarten because I cannot figure it out. TY,JOE
JH:
Take a look at the following: http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm . If you go down through the examples he gives there is a specific illustration of a Shinohara turnout and how to wire it. I hope this helps.
Joe
JHinPAOK then TEXAS ZEPHER how bout you tell me how you did your wiring back in 1st grade cause apparently I am still in kindergarten because I cannot figure it out.
It is really quite easy. Put an insulated rail joiner on each of the rails coming out from the frog. Put a feeder for the appropriate power polarity onto the track beyond the insulated rail joiner. You could also put gaps in the rails instead of insulated joiners.
Make certain the tortoise motor holds the points firmly against the outside rail because that is how power is now transferred into the frog. When the turnout throws one way it energizes the frog to the polarity of the rail it touches. When thrown in the other way the polarity on the frog switches because the points touch the opposite rail.
I would strongly suggest using a set of the contacts from the tortoise to run a power feed directly to the frog. That is run contact #4 to the frog, #2 and #3 to track power in the proper polarity for how the tortoise is installed.
There is the special case where the branch off the turnout is a stub ended siding. In that case if one does not mind having a dead siding when the turnout is thrown against it, the insulated joiner is not needed for that track. It is only when power is feeding in from the frog side of the turnout that the insulator/gap is not needed. The whole siding will be powered from the points either active when the turnout is aligned to the siding, or dead with both rails being the same polarity when the turnout is aligned to the "main".
JHinPA a shinohara turnout so that it works like the old ATLAS snap switches I am used to
Not sure all I know is I bought them because they were the only ones I could find that were close to what my layout plan called for. I had to get them from 2 different suppliers but at least they had them. all other manufactures were out of stock
Texas Zepher I would strongly suggest using a set of the contacts from the tortoise to run a power feed directly to the frog. That is run contact #4 to the frog, #2 and #3 to track power in the proper polarity for how the tortoise is installed.
I had dozens of the power routing Shinohara's on my layout. Many gave me no trouble at all in DCC. I have to caution using the Tortoise aux. contact feeds that if the throwbar (point) timing isn't EXACTLY in synch with the Tortoise contact you will get a brief short. Or if the points hang up but the Tortoise switches you'll get a short there, too. It works but you have to fine tune the timing as the DCC breakers are very sensitive. TZ's advice is good. I would recommend a stiffer actuating wire than what is provided with the Tortoise.
Maybe you could cut four gaps around the frog and use a Hex Frog Juicer to power the frog and the rails extending from it?
Have fun, Ed
Thanks for the info ED I am not sure if I mentioned it in my O/P but I am running old school DC with toggle switch block control and DPDT toggles for my switch control
If the power-routing turnout is being fed power from both the point end and the frog end, then you must gap the rails leaving the frog.
If the turnout feeds stub-ended spurs that don't have their own power feeds, there is no need to gap those rails.
Unless the frog is isolated at both ends, there is no need to power the frog as long as the power feed from the points is reliable.
Even if the frog is isolated at both ends, there is no need to power the frog unless you have short wheelbase motive power traversing frogs that are longer than the spacing of the unit's power pickups.
If you do have to power any frogs, especially if you want to consider manual turnout controls, I recommend the Tam Valley Frog Juicer. Easy to install and it works well. Cost per turnout can be comparable to or less than powered turnout controls.
Dante
JHinPA Thanks for the info ED I am not sure if I mentioned it in my O/P but I am running old school DC with toggle switch block control and DPDT toggles for my switch control
I missed that you were using DC, Joe. I ran my layout for many years with the Shinohara power routing turnouts. Sometimes I'd have to tweak the little bronze contact strip that is supposed to make contact with the stock rails
There are just a few basic rules for these turnouts...
1 Always gap any situation where you have frog-to-frog rail. Even if the other frog might be 20 feet away be it a passing siding or crossover.
2 Only feed power to the switch from the point end of the turnout.
Looking at these forum threads I see a lot of confusion about DCC Friendly; Electrofrog; Insulfrog; etc... There are only TWO kinds of turnouts. Power routing or All Live.
Running DC you'll be fine with your turnouts once you have the grasp of the two basic rules above apply. It helps to get a basic ohmmeter for troubleshooting, too. Study the diagrams that the other Joe led you to at wiringfordcc site.
Good Luck, Ed
The March Model Railroader had a good article on modifying Shinora turnouts to solid point rails with an insulated frog that can be powered separately. In other words to make them DCC friendly. It looked real easy as a project, especially before installation. Page 50.
Hey T/Z I did not feel disrespected or insulted at all I just appreaciate all the info from everyone trying to help a nubie like me. the last time I had a layout it was an oval with 3 switches! So now doing all this wiring with different blocks and connectors and different switches for this and that has me FRAZZELED! I bout gave up and burned this thing to the ground 10 times already!! But everyone here on fhe forums has been so helpful I just keep on trying different suggestions. THANK YOU ALL! well just got home from work so I am gonna give it another go!