Brian,
No offence to you or anything,, But did you ever consider, that the questions or issues you had asked, the computer guys, that they did not know themselves and that was their response to saving face??
Cheers,
Frank
rgengineoiler I AGREE with David B. laziness is growing fast. Many want someone else to solve their problem rather than reading a good manual or how to book and learning for them selves. There are some situations we model railroaders run into where the book and manuals won't cover, but for the most part they do. All I can say is that what ever system you invest in, study the manuals and read. read. read. A good attitude is important also but to me, PATIENCE IS THE PRIME MOVER of building and operating a model railroad. That's my thoughts! Doug
I AGREE with David B. laziness is growing fast. Many want someone else to solve their problem rather than reading a good manual or how to book and learning for them selves. There are some situations we model railroaders run into where the book and manuals won't cover, but for the most part they do. All I can say is that what ever system you invest in, study the manuals and read. read. read. A good attitude is important also but to me, PATIENCE IS THE PRIME MOVER of building and operating a model railroad. That's my thoughts! Doug
Doug,
As I fast approach 70,6 months,I AGREE with you,,, I would rather read the news, rather then watch it on the TV.. The key word being, READ,,,
gatrhumpy Digitrax sucks. You were much better off with a better system like NCE.
Digitrax sucks. You were much better off with a better system like NCE.
Explain?
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
As a recent purchaser of a Super Chief Xtra let me share some of my experiences. Put a fuse between the power supply and the base unit. That one is based on work experience at industrial equipment builders. Use a 15 volt DC setting on the power supply. Moving the base station switch to N scale changes it to 12 volts. The short sensing ability of the base station is pretty good. Have fun getting 6p6c straight thru cables for the UP5. I bought some mail order. If you do your own decoder installs you will need 30 ga wire. It is some much easier to work with than slightly larger gage wire. Home Depot now stocks Klein 30 ga stripers at their stores. Don't have reversing sections on my system. Wait till you try to program a Tsunami on the program track. Nothing happens. Program on the main, select address 00 then put your 4 digit address in. As I had a power supply and I needed a walk around throttle the Super Chief was the lowest cost DCC option for me at the time. It's not perfect but DCC is a lot of fun to play with.
Lee
davidmbedardPlease, no one tell the OP that some of the components he purchased are known, in the state of California, to cause cancer....... David B
Karl
NCE über alles!
richhotrain gandydancer19 Incorrectly wired model railroads have burned buildings down, and the correct wiring always starts with the manufacturers instructions of the product. Yikes! Now that is scary. Can you give an example or two of how that might happen? Rich
gandydancer19 Incorrectly wired model railroads have burned buildings down, and the correct wiring always starts with the manufacturers instructions of the product.
Yikes!
Now that is scary.
Can you give an example or two of how that might happen?
Rich
OK, here is an example:
If a wire of improper size is used somewhere in a critical location, usually too small, the protection device may not trip. (Does the 'quarter test' ring a bell?) If that happens, it is possible that the small wire gets hot. (Acting like the filament in a light bulb.) Maybe it is too close to something that is highly combustible under the layout and causes a fire.
This is not meant to scare anyone and would rarely happen. BUT - this is why instructions should be followed. If the instructions are wrong, then what?
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
LION is over 50. As a matter of fact LION is (almost) over 65. LION never ever even thought of DCC, that *could* make on C sick, you know. Well the zookeeper does not give LIONS very much money, so DCC was a no go from the git to, but the LION stole some DCC ideas and put them to work on his railroad. But of course now the LION and only the LION are responsible for how it works.
Him bought a big 15 amp regulated power supply for the railroad, and then imbedded resistors into the tracks to slow the trains down for stations. So far so good. LION used 1/2 watt 5.1 ohm resistors about 10 inches apart leading into the stations. Our maintenance department said that they would be ok since no train would be on the circuit long enough to heat them up.
So much for theories... Train derailed, the resistor had to carry the load, the transformer, rated at 15 amps saw no problem and kept putting power on the tracks, the resistor caught fire, and now I have a new kind of subway car with scorch marks on it. The fire, no more than a burning match, was startling but easily blown out, and would likely enough gone out on its own once the resistor stopped passing current, but now LION has power cut off switches all around the layout. Once hint of a train down, and I cut the power.
LION also installed a 3 amp fuse in his circuit. Him has tons of them as they come in each of those sets of LEDs that he cuts apart for the lamps.
So do like the instructions say or the zookeeper will take away your trains.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Alton Junction
gandydancer19 And make no mistake about it, a DCC system is an ELECTRICAL product. Incorrectly wired model railroads have burned buildings down, and the correct wiring always starts with the manufacturers instructions of the product.
Digitrax:
Place a copy of your manual and a red pen next to the phone. Now, every time the phone rings with a question, check the manual for the answer. If it is wrong or missing, make a notation.
Give a copy to engineering and ask them to note any changes into the manual. Now you have accurate mark ups to update your manual, all for free.
Hire a tech writer via 1099 or have someone update it in house.
Jim
rgengineoiler Hey mister over50. Does having an electrical background make you perfect?
Hey mister over50. Does having an electrical background make you perfect?
Hey mister over50. Does having an electrical background make you perfect? I don't have an electrical background and I have had my DIGITRAX Super Chief Xtra since Feb. and I love it. I love the concise manuals that have helped me learn the system and DCC itself because I have been DC for almost 30 years. I love the systems potential. I had an AR1 that was not quite right and they sent me a new one in 7 days. When I have a question via email I always have an answer within the hour. I have the new PS514 power supply and it works perfectly.
I will say that reading the manual completely several times is important for everyone and keeping it handy when I run into something I'm not sure of. All I can say is that I don't have an electrical background and I am not perfect and I am doing just fine with my new DIGITRAX SYSTEM. I have really felt after waiting for a year and studying the different DCC systems that I made the right choice. A new build and a switch to DCC has been a learning curve but what I know now has been gratifying for me.
Thats my take on things. Doug
Digitrax and me go back a long way. The first two decoders I bought were plug and pray Digitrax. Both fried on the PROGRAM track. I took both the decoders and locos back to the dealer. He checked the locos and plugged in TCS decoders and they still have them 10 years later. I sent both decoders to Digitrax for warranty. They E-mailed me saying that they can be repaired for $15 each. WHAT!!!!???? Excuse me? They cost $12 to buy. What part of warranty do they not understand? I only made two mistakes. One was buying them the next was plugging them in. After I calmed down a little I responded that they can keep them and no other product on my layout will ever have the word Digitrax on it. Even my dealer was quite upset that he gave me the TCS decoders that he plugged in to replace the ones fried on a current limiting program track. Digitrax has never explained why they burnt out. And to this day I still have nothing that says Digitrax.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Over50 Stevert Over50And from reading up on the PM 42 I already know the Digitrax site hookup instructions with AR1's is no longer recommended. Where does it say that? I know that some time back Digitrax changed their guidance (and their doc) as far as they no longer recommend using PM42 sections as auto-reversers powered by circuit breaker sections within the same PM42, but I'm not aware of anything that says you can't power an AR1 from a PM42. Good thing, because both my AR1's are powered by a PM42 section. What I am referring to is the tech support knowledge blurb that reads: "The PM42 can be configured so that one section of the PM42 is used for circuit breaker operation, feeding into another section of the same PM42 which is configured for automatic reverse section control." Then follows this up with the caveat: "In the field, this configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations. If you are having problems getting this to work in your setting, we recommend using an AR1 to handle the automatic reversing secion." My point is from a first time, no electrical background customer stand point, to first state you can configure the PM 42 as such then turm around and state doing it this way is known to cause problems is the equivalent of saying it's possible to be little bit pregnant. If there's a known problem then Digitrax should do away with the first statement entirely and just state only to use an ARI to handle auto reversing with a PM 42. Period.
Stevert Over50And from reading up on the PM 42 I already know the Digitrax site hookup instructions with AR1's is no longer recommended. Where does it say that? I know that some time back Digitrax changed their guidance (and their doc) as far as they no longer recommend using PM42 sections as auto-reversers powered by circuit breaker sections within the same PM42, but I'm not aware of anything that says you can't power an AR1 from a PM42. Good thing, because both my AR1's are powered by a PM42 section.
Over50And from reading up on the PM 42 I already know the Digitrax site hookup instructions with AR1's is no longer recommended.
Where does it say that?
I know that some time back Digitrax changed their guidance (and their doc) as far as they no longer recommend using PM42 sections as auto-reversers powered by circuit breaker sections within the same PM42, but I'm not aware of anything that says you can't power an AR1 from a PM42.
Good thing, because both my AR1's are powered by a PM42 section.
What I am referring to is the tech support knowledge blurb that reads:
"The PM42 can be configured so that one section of the PM42 is used for circuit breaker operation, feeding into another section of the same PM42 which is configured for automatic reverse section control."
Then follows this up with the caveat:
"In the field, this configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations. If you are having problems getting this to work in your setting, we recommend using an AR1 to handle the automatic reversing secion."
My point is from a first time, no electrical background customer stand point, to first state you can configure the PM 42 as such then turm around and state doing it this way is known to cause problems is the equivalent of saying it's possible to be little bit pregnant. If there's a known problem then Digitrax should do away with the first statement entirely and just state only to use an ARI to handle auto reversing with a PM 42. Period.
First you said,
"And from reading up on the PM 42 I already know the Digitrax site hookup instructions with AR1's is no longer recommended.
Then you said,
"If there's a known problem then Digitrax should do away with the first statement entirely and just state only to use an ARI to handle auto reversing with a PM 42."
Those two statements seem to contradict each other. The first one seems to imply that Digitrax's doc says you CAN'T use an AR1 with a PM42, and the second one says you SHOULD. That's why I was confused.
Anyway, Digitrax is only pointing out that the combination has been found to be unreliable in SOME layout configurations, and suggesting a workaround.
That's no different than for example, a car dealer saying all your luggage MAY not fit, and if not, there is also an optional luggage rack you can get.
Personally, I think it's a good thing they're acknowledging that there COULD be an issue in SOME configurations, and recommending an alternative solution.
Let me end this with these comments. I posted my first time experience with Digitrax products and the encountered discrepencies in the written, out-of-box hookup instructions. I referenced website conflicting configuation statements by Digitrax. The less than stellar Digitrax tech support response I got as noted was - by far- not what I expected from a purported top notch DCC systems company.
And now having paid nearly $500 for the experience the ensuing debate here on the merits of Digitrax based on what may have been or is your experience as a long-timer with the product doesn't make me wrong with my opinion of Digitrax based on what I ran into as a first timer, both with the company and DCC.
rrinker Dunno, been using Diigitrax for 12 years, no problems, not one, ever. Where'ts the 4 amps come from? It's 70 watts, at 15V and less that's near or over 5 amps. Everyone's gone to that type of power supply, because they are internationally universal, lighter, and common as dirt - it's a laptop power supply. Big bulky too heavy to ship transformers which can only be sold in a couple of countries are gone for good, thank heaven. As for the manual, it must have been old stock to have a revsion that old in the apckage. Blame your retailer, not Digitrax - you expect them to have the retailers return all old stock and repalce it? Luckily, the correct latest manual is only a click away. Probably should get the decoder manual too while you're on the site, if the user manual was a 2009 revision, the decoder manual probably is too. I dunno, I went and read the manuals and everything I could find BEFORE buying a system, and the Digitrax Loconet is still light years above what anyone else makes. Like Bob, I haven;t had any of the issues that keep popping up on the Digitrax Yahoo group. Mine stuff all just works. My Zephyr can program Tsunami decoders without blast mode. My PR3 can read and write Tsunami and QSI decoders, again with no booster and no special power supply, just a PS14. My trains just run, my PM42 reliably resets even with a bunch of sound locos sitting in the section that shorts, and it does shut off reliably, killing power only to the affected section, not shutting down the whole layout. I didn;t buy everything at once, I started with the Zephyr and have added a DT400, a DT402, a DB150, and a PM42. I even got a cheap used DT100 on eBay - and everything I have or had all still works, never had to send anything back for repairs. It's been rock solid since Day 1. Our club also runs Digitrax, and despite some well-intentioned but somewhat lacking in the technical ability members sometimes fat-fingering loco selections, it all runs quite well. Im' not away of any Digitrax equipment failures, though we did have a power supply or two go out, but they are some cheap surplus power supplies, not sure of the brand, but there are some at 15V for the DCC and some 13.8V that look exactly the same that power the accessories and lights. --Randy
Dunno, been using Diigitrax for 12 years, no problems, not one, ever.
Where'ts the 4 amps come from? It's 70 watts, at 15V and less that's near or over 5 amps.
Everyone's gone to that type of power supply, because they are internationally universal, lighter, and common as dirt - it's a laptop power supply. Big bulky too heavy to ship transformers which can only be sold in a couple of countries are gone for good, thank heaven.
As for the manual, it must have been old stock to have a revsion that old in the apckage. Blame your retailer, not Digitrax - you expect them to have the retailers return all old stock and repalce it? Luckily, the correct latest manual is only a click away. Probably should get the decoder manual too while you're on the site, if the user manual was a 2009 revision, the decoder manual probably is too.
I dunno, I went and read the manuals and everything I could find BEFORE buying a system, and the Digitrax Loconet is still light years above what anyone else makes. Like Bob, I haven;t had any of the issues that keep popping up on the Digitrax Yahoo group. Mine stuff all just works. My Zephyr can program Tsunami decoders without blast mode. My PR3 can read and write Tsunami and QSI decoders, again with no booster and no special power supply, just a PS14. My trains just run, my PM42 reliably resets even with a bunch of sound locos sitting in the section that shorts, and it does shut off reliably, killing power only to the affected section, not shutting down the whole layout. I didn;t buy everything at once, I started with the Zephyr and have added a DT400, a DT402, a DB150, and a PM42. I even got a cheap used DT100 on eBay - and everything I have or had all still works, never had to send anything back for repairs. It's been rock solid since Day 1.
Our club also runs Digitrax, and despite some well-intentioned but somewhat lacking in the technical ability members sometimes fat-fingering loco selections, it all runs quite well. Im' not away of any Digitrax equipment failures, though we did have a power supply or two go out, but they are some cheap surplus power supplies, not sure of the brand, but there are some at 15V for the DCC and some 13.8V that look exactly the same that power the accessories and lights.
--Randy
I did read all I could before buying Digitrax which is how I found out the PS 515 was replaced with the PS 514 in 2011. And to your other comment, yes I would expect Digitrax to maintain at least recent version products on LHS shelves. Are you inferring you have no problem buying cans of this or that in the grocery stores that have price labels stacked 1/16 inch thick on them?
As to your comment about an updated user manual, according to the Digitrax link I just accessed for the DB 150, please note it states this information is for current models and then shows the the last revision date as 12/2009. And given my LHS handles only Digitrax I really doubt what I bought has been sitting on the shelf going on 4 years.
I have a love hate relationship with digitrax. I hate they default to universal consisting. It's an outdated and limited feature set. Setting CV19 (Advanced consisting) is the way to go. It has so many benefits over universal consisting.
I find their interface extremely dated. I still haven't figured out how to setup up a reverse orientation consist engine on my DCS51 (Zephyr Xtra). The manual doesn't explain how to either.
I hate that you have to double strang braid your wire connections for high amp applications because their connectors won't support high amp thick wires.
MRC and NCE are much better in this reguard.
But digitrax is slightly cheaper, has the greatest number of supported accessories, has the biggest user base and is bullet proof reliable.
I love the NCE's clear simple directions on their display. It's easy to remember what you have to do when you read the screen. But I've seen one too many boosters of theirs burn out due to overheating for whatever reason for me to want to purchase them.
I swear I'm going to create the ultimate hand held throttle one of these days based on the raspberry pi and a touch screen.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
I have several PM42s acting as Auto Reversers being protected by one of the same PM42 as a Circuit Breaker!
This was way back in the old days before some on the Digitrax Forum complained they were having problems with this setup.
While one can not inspect each install - I found that having enough wire Drops in the Reverse Section as well as large enough Buss Wire went a long way in making the the PM42 Reverser work correctly.
Too many times the Layout Owner wants to cut corners in wiring the layout stating 14# or #16 wire will work as good as #12 as they ony have a 5 amp system and they re NOT running a bunch of engines.
It isn't the amp capacity but the resistance that kill most of these applications - that just goes over most peoples heads and even those that are knowledgeable in electronics.
I learned Command Control way back in the Keller Onboard & Dynatrol days where we learned the wiring problems all on our own as there was NO Internet.
Most now rely on the internet for everything and when there are conflicting replies they error on the cheaper side and run into problems.
So getting down off my Soap Box
The PM42 WILL work running Auto Reversers through the Circuit Breaker in the same board.
But be ready to do some experimenting wiring the Reverser Section and in setting the CVs in the PM42 to obtain the best results!
BOB H - Clarion, PA
Hopefully, it will work as you want it to in your layout configuration.
Keep us posted and let us know how this all works out.
You may be pleasantly surprised at the outcome.
richhotrain Over50 What I am referring to is the tech support knowledge blurb that reads: "The PM42 can be configured so that one section of the PM42 is used for circuit breaker operation, feeding into another section of the same PM42 which is configured for automatic reverse section control." Then follows this up with the caveat: "In the field, this configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations. If you are having problems getting this to work in your setting, we recommend using an AR1 to handle the automatic reversing secion." My point is from a first time, no electrical background customer stand point, to first state you can configure the PM 42 as such then turm around and state doing it this way is known to cause problems is the equivalent of saying it's possible to be little bit pregnant. If there's a known problem then Digitrax should do away with the first statement entirely and just state only to use an ARI to handle auto reversing with a PM 42. Period. Does the AR1 / PM42 combination work on your layout configuration? Rich
Over50 What I am referring to is the tech support knowledge blurb that reads: "The PM42 can be configured so that one section of the PM42 is used for circuit breaker operation, feeding into another section of the same PM42 which is configured for automatic reverse section control." Then follows this up with the caveat: "In the field, this configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations. If you are having problems getting this to work in your setting, we recommend using an AR1 to handle the automatic reversing secion." My point is from a first time, no electrical background customer stand point, to first state you can configure the PM 42 as such then turm around and state doing it this way is known to cause problems is the equivalent of saying it's possible to be little bit pregnant. If there's a known problem then Digitrax should do away with the first statement entirely and just state only to use an ARI to handle auto reversing with a PM 42. Period.
Does the AR1 / PM42 combination work on your layout configuration?
As I said I just began mounting all the hardware so it'll be some time - including running the a-b buss, track feeders, etc., before I'm ready to power up everything
I get your point, but I am not sure that I totally agree with you.
It says that the configuration has been found to be unreliable in some layout configurations, although it doesn't indicate what those configurations might be.
jrbernier Who did you buy this from? I would get back to them. As far as the Wall Wart P/S - this has been a moving target for all manufacturers. The current ones are the typical laptop supplies.= that are currently available, and the 'spec's seem to vary between batches. I just looked at the wall wart PS for my HP UltraBook - 18.5 volts and 4 amps. As others have noted, check out Tony's - He has a nice selection of DCC power supplies. IIRC, the Digitrax EB Xtra starter sets do not include the external power supplies in the base package. So I assume thu=is was a packaged up deal from the dealer? Cutting of the 'connector' and inserting the bare wires into the terminals on the DB150 have always been required. I have an AR1 that is in-line after a PM42 power district - Never had a problem. The club has multiple AR1'sand they works fine off of a PM42 power district. Jim
Who did you buy this from? I would get back to them. As far as the Wall Wart P/S - this has been a moving target for all manufacturers. The current ones are the typical laptop supplies.= that are currently available, and the 'spec's seem to vary between batches. I just looked at the wall wart PS for my HP UltraBook - 18.5 volts and 4 amps. As others have noted, check out Tony's - He has a nice selection of DCC power supplies.
IIRC, the Digitrax EB Xtra starter sets do not include the external power supplies in the base package. So I assume thu=is was a packaged up deal from the dealer? Cutting of the 'connector' and inserting the bare wires into the terminals on the DB150 have always been required.
I have an AR1 that is in-line after a PM42 power district - Never had a problem. The club has multiple AR1'sand they works fine off of a PM42 power district.
Jim, the discontiued PS 515 replacement PS 514 voltage selections at 4 amps apply only to 12v, 13.8v and 15v with voltage options 16.8, 19 and 20v @ 3.5 amps and 24v @ 2.9 amps.
It's not that the 15v @ 4 amps isn't enough for my personal layout - it's more than enough for what I'll be running. It's the principle of Digitrax' non factual written data I noted compared to how their product is promoted. For me anyway. And just to mention I did buy the Digitrax gear at my LHS who only handles Digitrax.
I feel your pain. I would have been PO'ed too, then I would have taken everything back and bought a different manufacturers system.
IIRC, the Digitrax EB Xtra starter sets do not include the external power supply in the base package. So I assume this was a packaged up deal from the dealer? Cutting of the 'connector' and inserting the bare wires into the terminals on the DB150 have always been required.
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
You're right, since they've gone to FL, things have decreased as far as tech service. Hopefully you didn't buy it online. In the MRR mag there is a group of companies that are into DCC sales, it's yellow background. Anyway, TonysTrainXChange is one of the key guys in getting DCC started in the US and one of their service tech is an old Digitrax guy. Call them. I have found it key to buy from a retailer that can support you!! AFter reading your list, I suspect there's a couple of items you'll need which will make it worth the guys at Tony's time to help you. But, they're just good guys and probably would anyway.
http://www.tonystrains.com/
They sold me lots of my Digitrax equipment. I do like the system, particularly when interfaced with JMRI on my computer. I use the LocoBuffer system for that interface.
BTW, I would buy TCS decoders for non sound applications.
Richard