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GG1 Electric from MTH in HO - I can't neither read nor modify any CV's!

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GG1 Electric from MTH in HO - I can't neither read nor modify any CV's!
Posted by Seravian on Saturday, March 2, 2013 7:51 AM

Hello dear community,

I granted myself an (expensive) GG1 made by MTH in HO.

I'm not sure whether this is THE super model for the money...but it's nice and the GG1 always pleases - it's in her DNA I assume...

BUT, placed on the programming track, once I set to read the CVs the DCC station short circuits! Even if I try on the PoM by modifying the CV the station blanks...what am I to do? The address keeps being #3 and I MUST change it.

Thanks for any hint.

Sebastian

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Posted by cacole on Saturday, March 2, 2013 8:23 AM

If it has the MTH proprietary DCS system, it is not DCC compatible, and you cannot use a DCC system to change it.

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, March 2, 2013 9:07 AM

Looking at the blurb on the MTH site, http://www.mthtrains.com/content/80-2147-1, all you can do with a DCC system is access the 28 different functions.   You are not going to be able to read or change any CVs. However, you should also be able to change the address.

Possibly you should re-post your question with a title like "how do I change the address on my MTH GG1?"

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 2, 2013 9:11 AM

If the MTH GG1 is HO then it's DCC compliant, although Sabastian won't be able to access many of the functions.  I also checked on eBay and the MTH GG1s are listed as "can be controlled in command mode with any DCC compliant command control system"

Sabastian, does the manual that came with your GG1 say that you have to do something (throw a switch) to make it operate in DCC?  And what DCC system are you using?

Tom

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Posted by mlehman on Saturday, March 2, 2013 9:48 AM

Welcome to the weird world of DCS. It's a lot like that planet in Superman that is on the other side of the sun, Bizarro World (?) where they do everything backwards from what we know and love.

Yeah, Tom's right, you need to check the documentation, as there must be some way to change the address from 3, even in the limited control you get over DCC functions with DCS.

Mike Lehman

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Posted by jalajoie on Saturday, March 2, 2013 10:25 AM

If it is like the first generation SD70ACe, try programming CV29=38 on the main. These first generation MTH locos will not read CV or program on a programing track

Jack W.

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Posted by Rastafarr on Saturday, March 2, 2013 10:56 AM

jalajoie

If it is like the first generation SD70ACe, try programming CV29=38 on the main. These first generation MTH locos will not read CV or program on a programing track

Yup. POM only. Even with a booster MTH engines don't like programming tracks.

Stu

Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, March 2, 2013 11:47 AM

 No no no - sheesh. I was able to reset and change the address on my MTH FA's on the program track of my PR3, just fine. Probably true they wont read, but I have no reason to read. ANd I was able to use CV17 and CV18 to set my own long address, not just change CV29 to make it use the cab address - mine are 300, and someone else at the club has a 300, so I made mine 301.

 The GG1 should be new enough to have some of the updates - the first run of MTH triple mode locos do have some issues, but with each reelase they've added additional DCC support. The older ones for the most part can be updated if you know someone or have a LHS with a DCS system. Updates weren't made available yet for all the locos though.

 My issues with the FA's and why I want to throw them through a wall definitely are not because I cannot program them.

             --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

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Posted by Seravian on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:15 PM

Ok, I only need to change the address to my MTH GG1.

Do you mean I should open a new thread with that title?

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Posted by Seravian on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:26 PM

Ok, so I did this (CV Mod in POM mode) and I got a "user break" message on the screen of my station.

And after setting CV 29 = 38, I have inverted the direction of the locomotive Sad

How do I restore it?

I tried changing the address on CV 1 but nothing happened other than "no confirmation" message. Address keeps being 3.

I have read the manual throughout (http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/download/instruction/80dl13833i.pdf)

There is a troubleshooting section, with the issue of the address. According to this wording, I should be able to change the CV in the program track!

"

Lost or Unknown Address Solution

I can't call up my engine on the address
I believe it to be set at

  • Perform the 55-55-55 Reset instructions on page 23
  • If you are trying to talk to an engine on its short address you may have set CV29 to activate long addressing. Try to get a hold of the engine on its last known long address
  • Place the engine on the Programming Track output on your DCC system and write a value of 3 to CV1 ==> yeah right!

So, I am irritated to have this issue on a USD 400 model. What is this supposed to mean???

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Posted by duckdogger on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:26 PM

So, give me the bad news; I'm an adult and I can handle it. 

Ordered an HO set of the PAs with 3.0 sound in War Bonnet from the Feb 2013 release.  My LHS has had address programming "challenges" with the older runs due to their affinity for track power.  What should I expect with my NCE 5 amp system?

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:50 PM

Don't you understand, Mike Wolf is just like a socialist government - he knows what is better for you than anything you know yourself - simply submit and buy DCS, and throw away all those inferior DCC and DC model trains.

Just give him all your money and he will take care of you - trust me.

I just read the prices in the April MR of the upcomming MTH releases, and at first I thought that was the April Fools Joke.

Sheldon

(hiding in my bunker with my DC powered trains and a stash of Aristo Train Engineer throttles)

    

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:51 PM

I see a lot of opinions, but no definitive answer.  Certainly someone should have one of these locos, or have a copy of the quick start guide.  Or at least a link to an on-line instruction manual.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Saturday, March 2, 2013 12:54 PM

maxman

I see a lot of opinions, but no definitive answer.  Certainly someone should have one of these locos, or have a copy of the quick start guide.  Or at least a link to an on-line instruction manual.

Seems to me in a recent thread I suggested not too many people who frequent this forum were buying MTH based on the lack of conversation about same - maybe I was right after all.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by duckdogger on Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:13 PM

Wow, you guys are really making me feel warm and fuzzy about my purchase.  So, I should keep the locos and rip out the MTH decoder/sound system replacing it with Tsunami?

Short of that Lemming jumping off a cliff move, you are saying it is hopeless?  I'd be happy with, "No, it's only catastrophic ".

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Posted by maxman on Saturday, March 2, 2013 1:57 PM

I think the first thing is to go back and read the manual and make sure you are following the instructions completely.  For example, it says that there is a switch that you have to move from one position to the other depending on whether you are using DCS or DCC.  Did you do that?  Also, it says that you have to remove the power from the loco for at least 5 seconds or else the changes won't be remembered.  Did you do that?  It suggests that you use programming on the main to get the long address changed, and that you need to program CVs 17 and 18 to get the long address, and refers you to a conversion table.  Did you do that?

I don't have one of these, so I'm just trying to be helpful.

Good luck.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, March 2, 2013 2:23 PM

duckdogger
Wow, you guys are really making me feel warm and fuzzy about my purchase.

Well it is MTH.

So, I should keep the locos and rip out the MTH decoder/sound system replacing it with Tsunami?

That does sound a bit extreme.  If it were me (and in some bizzaro world I purchased a MTH), I would try to carefully follow the directions people have given in this thread.  Seems like I see at least three that have promise.  See if at least one suggestion works.  

If one suggestion doesn't work you can reset it back to factory settings.  Try a different set of directions.

If all else fails instead of ripping it appart I think I would sell it and buy a BLI model of the same loco from eBay or the like.   I sitll kick myself for not buying a bunch of the BLIs when Train World was selling them for $129.

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Posted by selector on Saturday, March 2, 2013 2:39 PM

I don't believe BLI has made any GG1's since about 2004/5, and I don't know that they intend to bring another to market.  In fact, the MTH HO GG1 is BLI's model won as part of the spoils in a lawsuit BLI's builder in Korea lost to MTH.  It just has the myopic DCS system installed.

Crandell

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, March 2, 2013 3:54 PM

 Are you SURE it's going backwards? Or just backwards from what it was - check the little 'F' decal on the frame corner.

 If it's backwards, add 1 to CV39, so try 39.

There's another reset, a double click of F28 I think, at least on my FA's. On the main, when normally operating.

 The primary reset is to put the loco ont he main, call up address 55 - SHORT address 55, so no leading 0's with NCE. Select programming ont he main, set CV55 to 55. Then take the loco off the track, or tip it, to depower it, and then reapply power, it should be on address 3 now.

Make sure no other locos with address 55 or consist 55 are on the track when you do this.

         --Randy


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by thomas81z on Saturday, March 2, 2013 4:15 PM

i love the look of MTH but i have my own misfortunes with & MTH big boy Oops - Sign sad cause they could be soo much better

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 2, 2013 4:57 PM

Sebastian,

I'll ask the question again: Which DCC system are you using?  NCE has a special sheet for addressing MTH locomotives with their DCC systems.  Even if yours is not an NCE system, it may have some helpful hints anyhow.

Tom

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Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.

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Posted by Seravian on Saturday, March 2, 2013 5:17 PM

THANKS! I made it!

After reseting it, it worked and I could enter CV1 and moddify the address. As if it was a miracle.

I have no other explanation. Possibly so many short circuits created bugs in the decoder which could only dissapear by doing a reset.

Now, why to put the Digital Station into PoM just to change an address? Furthermore, not to be able to read CVs in a locomotive that cost USD 400??

The GG1 here looks ok. The GG1 will always be a "look at me". Cheap models by Mehano etc. don't look radically different. The great difference might be the wheels and the chasis. The rest is more or less the same. Quality seems ok, but hey, I expected great, elevated quality. Has anyone compared the MTH (or BLI) GG1 to the Trix GG1? What are your comments?

Sebastian

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Posted by Seravian on Saturday, March 2, 2013 7:19 PM

I'm sorry, I oversaw your question.

I use the Roco Multizentrale Pro.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Saturday, March 2, 2013 8:03 PM

selector
I don't believe BLI has made any GG1's since about 2004/5, and I don't know that they intend to bring another to market.  In fact, the MTH HO GG1 is BLI's model won as part of the spoils in a lawsuit BLI's builder in Korea lost to MTH.  It just has the myopic DCS system installed.

EXACTLY!   As far as I know they are the same tooling.   And why I would go hunting a BLI unit on ebay.

I had forgotten TRIX even made one. 

I am just glad you got it working regardless of the brand.  Nothing worse than a loco that won't run right due to electronics - like my Genesis 4-6-6-4.   Groan.

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Posted by selector on Saturday, March 2, 2013 8:39 PM

I gave up on a BLI GG1 four years ago because they were overpriced and rare.  I found a Trix one at Modelbahn Otto, I think it was (spelled).  It was the last one he knew of, and I snapped it up for about $350, a steal if you ask me.

It has the two working pantographs, a LokSound 3.0 or earlier version, sounds great, runs like a rabbit, and as sure footed.  I wouldn't part with it.

Crandell

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Posted by tstage on Saturday, March 2, 2013 8:56 PM

$350 was a great price on that, Crandell.  I picked up both of my Trix Mikes for $225 and $250 several years ago.

Tom

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Posted by rrinker on Saturday, March 2, 2013 9:32 PM

 My ex father in law has a BLI one, I don;t think he paid more than $250 for it with sound, ran great, never a problem. Despite being a die-cast metal shell, it was nicer looking than any of his Rivarossi or Mehano plastic ones. Sound is sort of a waste though, other than the horn and bell. There's just not a lot of sound to an electric loco.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, March 3, 2013 6:33 AM

rrinker

 My ex father in law has a BLI one, I don;t think he paid more than $250 for it with sound, ran great, never a problem. Despite being a die-cast metal shell, it was nicer looking than any of his Rivarossi or Mehano plastic ones. Sound is sort of a waste though, other than the horn and bell. There's just not a lot of sound to an electric loco.

              --Randy

 

One of my closest modeling friends isa PRR modeler, building a layout depecting the PRR in Baltimore circa 1947.

He has a whole fleet of BLI GG1's, all bought for $250 or less. They do run nice and look good.

As for the sound, you know I'm not into sound, but a GG1 has large noisey cooling fans for the traction motors - that is the primary sound created by the sound system. Sure, not the sound of a diesel prime mover, but a motor sound none the less.

I can't speak about the Trix version, never even seen one.

One thing that turned me off a little with the BLI model is the NEM style coupler mountings. I wonder if MTH changed that? That has also been one of my complaints with other Trix stuff I have seem - that and PA's with pilots that swivel like LIONEL - no thanks I'll pass.

I have a moderate sized fleet of Proto PA's for less than a single AA set from Trix - and they run real nice.

Sheldon

    

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Posted by rrinker on Sunday, March 3, 2013 10:13 AM

 The MTH GG1 is probably worse than the NEM couplers - it has their remote uncoupling ones. Although at least on my FA's they supply a set of plain couplers to replace them - it's a bit of delicate surgery to get in there and swap them though, and I totally forgot I meant to do so between the last two shows I used them at - so I was faced with my A and B constantly comoing apart. The MTH couplers need to be really slammed together to make them couple up, and the remote uncoupling is just too gimmicky - how ofter are you dropping the entire train? And since only 1 needs to open, having the automatics on both ends of an A and B that are always coupled together is just silly. And under power - they don't stay together. I was definitely NOT hitting the front or rear coupler buttons, yet my A and B would come apart and since the A then had no load, it would run away in front of the B and the train. The B never came uncoupled from the rest of the train.

 I was in reverse of regular railroad practice - I was ready to toss the FAs in a trash can and pull the train with my PCM T-1, the steamer is more reliable. Between the undesired incoupling and the sound just stopping for no real reason - I've had it with MTH. Think I'll put Loksound decoders in my Proto set and get rid of these.

                 --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Seravian on Monday, March 4, 2013 5:54 PM

I'd be interested to read a comparison between the Trix GG1 and the BLI or MTH GG1.

Anyone could share his/her thoughts?

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