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Need another booster?????

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  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Flushing,Michigan
  • 822 posts
Posted by HaroldA on Monday, August 13, 2012 5:56 AM
Thanks to everyone who posted on this. I tweaked a couple of connections and adjusted the trip setting on the AR1. The breaker is now tripping and I can move ahead with this projest so thanks for all your suggestions.

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Sunday, August 12, 2012 11:43 AM

Now that we know it's an AR1, as Randy suggested, adjust the trip current up. Doing so will also still allow the AR1 to do its job but also help the booster to see a long term short in the section. Even with the AR1 working flawlessly, a hard short in the reverse section should still trip the booster to avoid damage to trains and equipment.

I had an AR1 that finally gave up the ghost after tripping continuously for a couple of days. It was on an NTRAK layout at the B & O Museum. No one else noticed the clicking over the noise in the round house. I became aware of it when a club member asked me what was wrong with my Wye. The day time operators had just avoided using the one single track figuring I had just not connected power. Swapped it out and disconnected the power plug that had been plugged in in error by a well meaning member. I tape it up now.

Martin Myers

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Sunday, August 12, 2012 11:15 AM

 Based on this latest post, it actually sounds as if everythign is working as expected. The AR-1 is a reverser only, not a breaker, so it will keep attempting to switch its way out of the short. About the only thing you cna do is adjust the sensitivity of it. It should be set so that any loco can cross the reverse loop gaps without hesitating. It sounds as if perhaps yours is set all the way to most sensitive, so it never passes the short on. You should be able to turn it up a bit and still have the trains move through the loop smoothly, even with low current locos and even if you were in N scale.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Flushing,Michigan
  • 822 posts
Posted by HaroldA on Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:46 PM
A couple of responses - First to Dave, yes, that is the noise I am hearing. It's a Digitrax AR1 module and it does 'flutter' when I do the test. Second to Martin, I checked all the connections going into the reversing section and the breaker finally did trip - and the AR1 also 'fluttered' as Dave suggested. I also purposely created shorted a loco in a turnout and all I got was the squeal as opposed to a tripped breaker. I will take your suggestion and bypass the AR1 and do the test again - if it still won't trip then I don't know what to do.

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

  • Member since
    July 2008
  • 1,206 posts
Posted by mfm37 on Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:47 PM

A continuing short on the reversing section should trip the booster eventually. You didn't mention the model of auto reverser being used.

I would disconnect the bus to the reverse section at the AR. Connect it to your main bus and try the quarter test everywhere but across the isolated section break . If the booster trips, suspect the AR unit or connection to it. May jsut require some adjustments to the ArR if equipped with adjustment.

Martin Myers

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Charlotte, NC
  • 6,099 posts
Posted by Phoebe Vet on Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:21 PM

A short in a reverse loop will not trip the breaker, it will activate the reversing module.  A continuing short will keep activating the reversing module over and over.  That is probably the noise you hear.

Dave

Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow

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    February 2008
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Posted by maxman on Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:09 PM

HaroldA

Will take a look at the major connections for the #14 wire. This new section is a big reverse loop that is running through an AR1. All of the feeders are soldered to the bus and to brand new rail. Rail joints are also all soldered. I am a little mystified.

So the quarter test works everywhere except in the reverse loop?

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Flushing,Michigan
  • 822 posts
Posted by HaroldA on Saturday, August 11, 2012 1:00 PM
rrinker

 18 feet is not a long bus run. And not even too long for #14 wire. My layout is 10x15 around the walls and each bus run for the main line goes halfway around the loop. It's #14 wire, and the breaker trips instantly with a quarter even at the furthest point.

 I suspect there is a bad connection somewhere, possibly where the new part ties to the oldm which is resulting in the furthest areas only getting power via the rail joints and not the bus wire and feeders. Or the new track is very dirty and the quarter isn;t maing good contact. Do not press ont he quarter though, it should trip the breaker without pressing down.

              --Randy

 

Will take a look at the major connections for the #14 wire. This new section is a big reverse loop that is running through an AR1. All of the feeders are soldered to the bus and to brand new rail. Rail joints are also all soldered. I am a little mystified.

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

  • Member since
    February 2002
  • From: Reading, PA
  • 30,002 posts
Posted by rrinker on Saturday, August 11, 2012 12:27 PM

 18 feet is not a long bus run. And not even too long for #14 wire. My layout is 10x15 around the walls and each bus run for the main line goes halfway around the loop. It's #14 wire, and the breaker trips instantly with a quarter even at the furthest point.

 I suspect there is a bad connection somewhere, possibly where the new part ties to the oldm which is resulting in the furthest areas only getting power via the rail joints and not the bus wire and feeders. Or the new track is very dirty and the quarter isn;t maing good contact. Do not press ont he quarter though, it should trip the breaker without pressing down.

              --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
  • 21,483 posts
Posted by MisterBeasley on Saturday, August 11, 2012 10:25 AM

Your symptoms sound to me like the bus wire isn't properly connected, and the track is carrying the full load out a long way from the booster.

You can't really check this with a meter, though, because in this case, the bus is being back-fed through the feeders, so it will still read voltage.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Flushing,Michigan
  • 822 posts
Posted by HaroldA on Saturday, August 11, 2012 9:57 AM
Booster is a Digitrax DB150. The closer I get to the booster the breaker will trip. Will get out my meter and take come readings.

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Saturday, August 11, 2012 8:06 AM

What brand of booster are you using?  A high-pitched squeal is a sign that the booster has tripped if you have a CVP product with its built-in overload alarm.

The best way to know for sure whether or not your booster has tripped is to have a voltmeter connected to the track at the point where you're conducting the quarter test to see if the voltage drops to zero.  

Based on your description of what is happening and the gauge of your bus wire, I don't think another booster is going to help.

This sounds more like another type of problem unrelated to the booster.

On our club layout two boosters are nearly 40 feet away from the farthest point and we have no problem with them not tripping.  We also use a PSX breaker attached to the output of each booster as extra protection.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Flushing,Michigan
  • 822 posts
Need another booster?????
Posted by HaroldA on Saturday, August 11, 2012 6:42 AM
I have a considerable addition to my current layout and have connected feeders at every rail joint from the 14 gauge bus wires. The only booster I have is about 18 feet away. When I do the quarter test in this section, the breaker doesn't trip. What I hear is a high pitched squeal. Do I need another booster? Are there specific requirements to determine when one is needed?

There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....

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