Hi
I'm wondering if you guys have any opinions towards what DCC controller I should get. I'm building a new layout and am switching from DC to DCC. From looking at both manuals, other forms on other websites, from product reviews and from my eyes, I like the look of the MRC. Is there anything I should know about these 2 controllers? I know that the NCE is just a cab and that's your control base. I'm wondering how many locomotives can you have running at once, how many can you recall (MRC 25 loco) and how many locomotives does it remember after it's shut off (MRC 5 loco). If you could help me that would be great. Also is there anything else I should know about these 2 DCC systems?
I agree that the NCE Power Cab is better than the MRC unit.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
MRC Prodigy Advance (PA)2:
NCE Power Cab:
How many locomotives each will run is primarily contingent on how much draw your locomotives pull. As a general rule for newer locomotives - i.e. manufactured in the last 10 years:
Given that the PA2 does have more power, a larger recall stack, and can handle more throttles, I'd still go with the Power Cab because of expandability.
For an additional $128 (and slightly less than the total price of the PA2), you can increase the Power Cab's total output to 5A, recall stack to 6, and total throttles to 4 with the NCE Smart Booster (SB3a). With the SB3a, the Power Cab can also be unplugged from and plugged into a UTP panel without shutting down the layout.
And, FWIW, I really like the 3-fold speed control of the encoder (thumb wheel) and the gross (10-steps) and fine (1-step) incremental buttons of the Power Cab. I thought I would miss the control and feel of a potentiometer but I don't. I get much finer control with the thumb wheel and incremental buttons than I do a knob.
My ...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I prefer NCE, because is a handheld type, and the customer service (by mail) is fast and efficient. Beside, sometime they send me free the updated main chip.
As a user of the earlier MRC Prodigy Advance system, I thought I'd put my two cents in. I have been very satisfied with my Prodigy Advance system. It currently powers a double deck layout with dimensions of 10' by 19'. It easily handles the four or five locomotives I run simultaneously. I own mostly older Athearn Blue Box units with the original motors (high current draw) using Lenz, Digitrax and MRC non-sound decoders plus three MDC steamers with early MRC sound decoders (all three still function as new -- luck or just better quality control in the early days?). I purchased the basic system with a second cab for about $380 shortly after the system was introduced. The MRC system was easy to install, came with its own power supply as part of the basic system, and has funtioned as advertised since day one. I installed my own throttle bus with 8 plug-in jacks using standard CAT-5 components from a local wholesale electronics store. All of the CAT-5 jacks, face plates, cables and wire insertion tool cost me less than $35 and the color coding of the CAT-5 components made the wiring installation stupidly easy! Unlike their unpopular DCC decoders, the MRC Prodigy Advance system is well built and robust (the cabs have been dropped or knocked off the layout onto the concrete floor a couple of times without damage). I have never heard the cooling fan of the command unit turn on and I've never felt the command unit get more than a little warm either. No, I don't have a computer interface but I haven't felt any need to use a computer as CV programming with this system is so easy.
Probably the best testimonial for the MRC Prodigy Advance system was the time I handed a cab to an eight year old boy about two months ago. After about a minute of instruction, he ran a passenger train pulled by one of my MDC steamers around the layout for about an hour and a half, sounding the whistle at all road crossings, stopping at all stations, sounding the whistle prior to departing each station and simply having a ball without any additional coaching on how to use the cab controls. He even figured out how to back the train up by himself when he overshot a station platform (I have a bit of momentum programmed into my steamers). I later challenged him with a switching puzzle pulling hopper cars out of my sugar beet plant and building a train. He accomplished the task with only a little trouble remembering to align all of the switches for each train move. He left with a huge smile on his face and a request to his parents to return sometime soon. If an eight year old first time user can have that much fun the first time he's seen the MRC controls, MRC must have done something right!
Hornblower
Frankly, kids pick up on the use of dcc throttles with ease. It would be more of a shock that a kid would not figure out the basic controls for running a train. There is very little difference between brands when it comes to the basics.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Simon,
Very true about kids picking up on technology faster than adults. However, I my middle aged self found the MRC system very easy to learn and use and also find that decoder programming with the MRC Prodigy Advance is incredibly easy. I usually assign loco addresses with the loco on my programming track (mainly to keep from accidently reprogramming other locos left on the main) but everything else can be quickly programmed on the main. Starting voltages, momentum, top speed, speed steps, sound volumes, sound files, etc. are all done by a few keystrokes easily determined by the clear and concise cab labeling and display readouts without ever looking at the system manual (or even the instructions printed on the back of the cab). Yes, I usually need the decoder manual to determine which CV's do what on a particular brand decoder and the numeric range of input values for each CV. Consisting is a matter of setting a consist address, then adding the address of each loco desired for that consist (pressing the direction button once at the end of the address to indicate which locos are to run in reverse). Yes, there are a few more advanced tricks available that are described in the system manual but that doesn't take very long to read cover to cover. No, I don't have any hands-on experience with other systems beside the old Atlas Commander but I like the way the MRC Prodigy Advance system works and another system would have to offer some pretty serious additional bells and whistles to convince me to replace what I currently own. As far as expansion, I can daisy chain as many additional boosters as I need and the system will handle something like 99 cabs including wireless cabs. Unless you really have to have a computer interface, purchasing the MRC Prodigy Advance 2 should provide a reliable and satisfying DCC experience. Would I buy the MRC Prodigy Advance again? Yes.
No arguements from me, the MRC is without doubt simple to use. I still would never get one, as the minor simplicity gain would not outweigh other criteria that would be important to me if I were in the market.
I've heard that the NCE will only allow you to run 2 locomotives at once no mater what. Also I plan on using NCE decoders.
Thank you for all the replies so far
csxbnsfbnrailway I've heard that the NCE will only allow you to run 2 locomotives at once no mater what.
I've heard that the NCE will only allow you to run 2 locomotives at once no mater what.
Not entirely true. The Power Cab has the power to run more than two locomotives at a time. What it is limited to is a maximum of two (2) locomotives in the recall stack, which is what I quoted earlier.
The limited recall stack of the Power Cab was never a deal breaker for me. Keeping track of two locomotives simultaneously is quite enough for my brain to handle and it's something I only need to do on occasion.
With the Smart Booster I now have a recall stack of 3 (up to 6). Anymore than 4 I find becomes monotonous having to cycle through the recall stack to get to the locomotive number I want. It then becomes quicker for me to just press the SELECT LOCO button, punch in the loco number, and press ENTER. Again, not a deal breaker for me.
NCE decoders will work fine with any DCC system.
Recall stack is one of those features that you either like and use, or don't bother with. I am quite content hitting LOCO 1234 LOCO to choose the loco I want to run than having to twiddle the knob to select a locomotive. I never have to think "is this still in the stack or not?" It is 6 presses and I can select any locomotive on the layout. All the systems work in essentially the same way.
The actual limit to the number of locomotives that you can run is the power consumption. The available current in AMPS from the booster, divided by the amp draw of each loco. That's it, so whoever told you that the PowerCab can only control 2 locomotives has no idea what they are talking about.
In reality the number of locos that you can run is more likely constrained by the physical characteristics of the layout and your ability to control the trains.
[quote user="simon1966"]
"The actual limit to the number of locomotives that you can run is the power consumption. The available current in AMPS from the booster, divided by the amp draw of each loco. That's it, so whoever told you that the PowerCab can only control 2 locomotives has no idea what they are talking about."
I found that on another online form. Maybe I'm not helping without showing the layout design. It can be found here http://www.walthers.com/page/CCBR.pdf . Off of the straight away, I plan on having a helix to a lower level, a yard. The helix will be a 2% grade approximately. I wont have a locomotive const bigger that 5 locomotives. Also there will be different grades on the layout. Maybe it's all about preference? I plan on using NCE decoders and any decoders that come with any DCC locomotives.
Any help?
Of the two, go with the NCE. You cna always expand it if you need more power. NCE will allow you to connect your computer and use JMRI, MRC can't do that. JMRI will come in VERY handy when programming decoders, especially sound ones with their plethora of CVs. If you have an iOS or ANdroid device, you can also use it to run trains via JMRI - giving you a second throttle (or more).
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
csxbnsfbnrailway I wont have a locomotive const bigger that 5 locomotives.
I wont have a locomotive const bigger that 5 locomotives.
This is a horse of a different color. Is your question "how many trains can I control with the PowerCab at one time", or "how many multiple unit consists can I operate with the PowerCab at one time"?
I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year.
NS 5050: Southern Style on NS H76.
Yes, that is a different animal altogether. You have to add up the current draw from each locomotive in your consist. With a five-locomotive consist, you could possibly reach (or even pass) the 1.7A limit of the Power Cab - i.e. depending on how many locomotives are powered and/or how may come with sound.
If you plan on running larger consists and decide on the Power Cab, I would definitely go with the Smart Booster. If you go with the PA2, 3A should be ample.
I suspect that the 5 loco consist, especially if these are sound will hit the limit of the PowerCab. I would also deduce from this that you will be speed matching a lot of locomotives. All I can say is this, the first time that you have all your locos nice and speed matched, and something happens and a decoder needs to be re-set, you will bless the day you made the decision to get a PC interface and Decoder Pro. The ability to save all your CV programming work in a file for a loco, that can be re-written back to the decoder with a few clicks of a mouse is a wonderful thing.
Something else that I would advise you to consider:
NCE is made in the U.S.A. and tech support is based in the U.S.A. (Webster, New York).
MRC is made in China and their tech support, in my experience, has been horrible. They "repaired" a Sounder decoder that was dead on arrival, and when I got it back is was more than just dead on arrival, it was so messed up that it becomes scorching hot within ten seconds and begins to smoke.
I try to stay away from these kinds of threads that are more like the ford vs chevy argument.
Another point that has not been discussed is the Power Cab will read any decoder that offers read back.
Mine is 8 years old now and still going strong. A five locomotive consist is nothing for it. When I first got mine I had 7 sound equipped and 4 non sound HO scale locomotives consisted and running. It also has double heading capabilities. You can consist a 3 loco set and consist another 2 loco set and then double head the 2 consists. Great for pushers on the hill.
Another plus is the built in amp meter. I use it for tuning up and diagnostics of locomotives. Easy to use is a miss statement. Just flipping through the quick start guide I have not looked at the manual since the day I unpacked it.
The only thing that has happened to my Power Cab was that the telco plug had lost its contacts. I fashioned a neat little tool for pulling the pins in the plug back into shape. The thing has been dropped, hung from the cord, and accidentally burned from a hot soldering iron. I take it to train shows with a test track for guys in the club to program their locos without having to shut down the Lenz powered layout.
It has served me very well and owes me nothing. If something were to happen to it I would get another without hesitation.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
tstageIf you plan on running larger consists and decide on the Power Cab, I would definitely go with the Smart Booster.
Tom, you know I just can't let that statement go by unscathed!
The PowerCab and SB3a combination is a very "un-economical" upgrade path that still leaves you with considerable restrictions. Rather than taking that route, you may want to consider the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra.
Here's why, using Tony's as a guide to “street price”:
Power-Cab: $155.95
SB3a: $127.96
Total: $283.91
Advantages: 5 amps of track power, two more throttles/devices, and you can unplug your original PowerCab throttle for use as a true walk-around.
Disadvantages: You lose the PowerCab's original 1.7 amps and programming track (unless you have a need to set them up elsewhere, but you can still only use your original PowerCab throttle on one system at a time), limit of only 4 throttles/devices, no way past that limit other than replacing your PowerCab/SB3a with a PowerPro, partially functional USB interface, cab addresses, very expensive considering all the inherent limitations (Don't you also need a power supply for the SB3a? Add another $46).
Zephyr Xtra: $179.95
Total: $179.95
Advantages: Control up to 20 loco addresses simultaneously, nearly unlimited ability to add “other” devices to the LocoNet, you don't lose the Zephyr's original 3 amps or programming track (or anything else) when you add boosters, FULL access to ALL LocoNet traffic via Digitrax PR3 or aftermarket LocoBuffer, no need to assign cab addresses, ability to add two jump throttles, comes with a power supply (in the US), wide range of 3rd party LocoNet devices available.
Disadvantages: Only 3 amps vs. the add-on, extra cost SB3a's 5 amps, and depending on your situation, the fixed location of the built-in throttle.
If I was just starting out, I know which one I'd get...
Since the Zephyr or Zephyr Xtra (both very good systems) were not in the original equation, Steve, I was merely confining my comments to the PA2 and Power Cab. The cost of the Power Cab and SB3a combo vs. the PA2 is slightly less more (with the inclusion of the 5A power supply), as per the pricing on the TTE site. Given that those are what the OP was confining his choices to, the discussion is fruitless.
Happy to have chosen the "un-economical" route, Steve. One man's "considerable restrictions" is another man's operational enjoyment.
Hi guys
thanks for the comments so far. I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set (when on sale at walthers $438). Is this a good set? As for the digitrax systems I don't think I want to go down that road.
thanks
csxbnsfbnrailway I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set (when on sale at walthers $438). Is this a good set?
I think I will go with the NCE PH-PRO set (when on sale at walthers $438). Is this a good set?
Yes, it is. But be sure to check prices elsewhere. You might (or might not) be able to do a little better pricewise.
csx,
Here's a few places and prices on the NCE PH-Pro - in no particular order:
All are brick 'n mortar shops and all are VERY reputable dealers and ones that I have dealt with personally. TTE and Litchfield are also very good sources of DCC information. Deliver time has been extremely good from all of them.
Do keep in mind that you will also need a NCE P515 to power your PH Pro. Hope that helps...
You would be far better off NOT getting it from Walthers, even if they were a few bucks cheaper, which they are not. Not to say you would need it, but you would not get any support of note from them, compared to expert advice and support from any of the vendors that Tom mentions. Also plan on joining the NCE Yahoo group. I belong to the Digitrax group and find it to be an excellent source of advice, hints and tips and general information.
NS5050 I have not had either of these systems, but two of my friends have had the MRC Prodigy Advance2, and both of them quit. They both became messed up when trying to run consists, or a few engines at once. I would definitely go with the NCE system because MRC has had multiple issues after less than a year.
I am sorry to hear your freinds got all messed up and quit becuase they could figure out how to use a very simple MRC prod. adv. consist set up. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
TRUCK.
Truck . It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
. It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
That might be the problem.
My 12 year old builds consists in a matter of seconds on our DT402 throttle. You didn't really mean minutes did you?
simon1966 Truck: . It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds. That might be the problem. My 12 year old builds consists in a matter of seconds on our DT402 throttle. You didn't really mean minutes did you?
Truck: . It has to be one of the easiest ADVANCED CONSIST programing there is out there. You can set, clear & run consists in minutes. NO BRAINER. again sorry to hear about your quiter freinds.
While I don't have much experience with the PA2, used it only on 4 occasions so far. I don't see much difference building Advance consist with the MRC when compare with NCE. For one thing NCE has more features, such as the ability to run the consist by the loco cab address and the built in ability to flip the consist at the end of the line. Other wise the MRC menu is a direct clone of the NCE one.
Jack W.