Some 8 years ago when I first got into the HO scale side of the hobby, my LHS guys convinced me to purchase an NCE system to control my DCC powered layout. At that time, I was purchasing DC locos and installing my own decoders, so I generally restricted my decoder purchases to NCE. But for reasons of availability, price, and fit, I also purchased and installed Digitrax decoders. I really never had any problems with either brand.
Then, I started to purchase some locomotives with factory installed DCC and sound. These locomotives were equipped with QSI and Soundtraxx (Tsunami) decoders. I really never had any problems with either of these two brands.
Now, there is a recent thread on this forum that deals with choosing brand decoders, and the implication is that TCS produces the best decoder.
I am not interested in starting a debate or taking a poll over who manufactures the "best" decoder, but I am curious about how you decide to purchase a decoder when choice among different manufacturers is available.
Besides the five decoders (NCE, Digitrax, QSI, Soundtraxx and TCS) that I have already mentioned, it seems that the other typical choices include Lenz, MRC and ESU (Loksound).
How do you choose the right decoder for you? Do you go in different directions when you are choosing sound or non-sound?
I have always wondered about this issue, but I have never really researched it. I would be interested in your opinions and advice.
Rich
Alton Junction
Gidday, I buy what is available at the time.
Digitrax, to my mind at least, was the first readily available DCC system in New Zealand for quite some time, so therefore was the most popular, though do not what its market position is now. Five of my locos have Digitrax decoders, and though I'm in HO, three are N decoders.
Now that there are different brands being brought into the country, I have one NCE decoder bought specifically for a loco, and I have just bought two TCS decoders, again for specfic locos and another TCS because I liked their "How to install" section on their web site.
My one and only sound loco has factory installed QSI DCC sound decoder.
I'm afraid no scientific approach for me.
Cheers, the Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
When I first "jumped" into DCC, I was clueless. I have no means of seeing these things first hand (closest hobby shop is an hour drive with no set up for hands-on demo and no train clubs around) so I had to do my own homework.
After weeks/months of reading, watching videos and learning, I decided to purchase some Bachmann plug-n-play decoders. Some of the main reasons for this: one of the locos I had was DCC ready with an 8-pin plug and cost (about $30 each). I figured this would get my feet wet and I could see whether or not I wanted to commit to DCC.
The installs were relatively easy and I got firsthand experience with DCC, I was hooked. Since I wanted my son to experience DCC, I decide to convert one of his locos to DCC. It is an athearn GP 38-2 so I purchased a Digitrax DT163AT and once the install was complete, was AMAZED at the difference in performance (such as BEMF) and engine noise suppression. Cost and ease of installation were factors on this upgarde.
Since I now wanted sound, I did more homework and decided to try Soundtraxx. Since I narrowed it down to a particular brand, I researched where I could buy the cheapest. Within the last year I have installed one TSU-750, one TSU-1000 and two AT-1000's and have no complaints.
As far as your question, the biggest deciding factor for me is selection (having the right decoder for your loco). Not every manufacturer has a decoder for each model of loco. Example: my latest upgrade/install was for an Alco S-3. I was going to try Loksound, but they don't make a decoder for Alco 539 (non-turbo) so I stayed with Soundtraxx.
Another deciding factor is the availability of sound bites on the internet. The ability to see and hear a sample BEFORE purchasing helps in the process. I would be disappointed if I bought (on the internet) a sound decoder and then after the install wasn't happy with the sound and was stuck with something I wasn't satisfied with.
Thirdly: Size Does Matter! Since I am restricted to internet purchases for decoders, I need to know whether or not it will fit under the shell. Even though most manufacturers give the dimensions on their web sites, you really never know until you receive it. Since I have Soundtraxx, I know they fit and have a tendency to stay with something I know will work.
Inspired by Addiction
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davidmbedard On the eighth day, God created Zimo decoders, and he saw it was good and he was pleased. David B
On the eighth day, God created Zimo decoders, and he saw it was good and he was pleased.
David B
David, at first, I thought that you were just kidding around. I only have a passing awareness of Zimo, a Canadian decoder manufacturer. But, then, I took a look at the Zimo web site and, although their marketing statements can be viewed as self-serving, Zimo claims that it has a reputation among serious model railroaders as the best performing decoder.
Tell us more about your experience with Zimo. Do you use Zimo decoders exclusively?
I've bought a Digitrax Super Chief 10+ years ago, and have primarily stuck with Digitrax decoders, I guess out of "brand loyalty". I've never had a reason to switch as none of my Digitrax decoders have ever given me any problems or issues. Like everything else Digitrax I've ever owned, they Always Just Work.
However, having said that, I don't have an aversion to buying other brands if they make a decoder that's a better fit for a specific application. I've got some TCS A6X's in early Genesis locos (because of their voltage regulators and the finicky Genesis 1.5v bulbs), and TTX ATLSW's in a pair of Atlas S2's and TTX SW12's in a pair of P2K SW9/1200's because of their form factors.
Not to mention a bunch of factory Tsunami and QSI installs.
Well, my experience was almost the same as yours Rich, except that I have not tried Digitrax decoders. NCE was first, then Soundtraxx was second because I wanted sound. I also have a LOK Sound decoder, a QSI sound decoder, and an MRC sound decoder. (The MRC one died.) I found that the Soundtraxx decoders were easier to work with. I have recently gotten a TCS decoder for an old HO Bowser conversion and like it also. I am also getting back into N scale some at our club, and it looks like TCS makes the better variety for N scale drop-in applications.
Basically, if I try something (decoder) and it is easy to use and I have no problems, I stick with that brand. Since the Internet Forums, I pay attention to what people are saying about what they use, and stay away form things that have a bad reputation.
If I am satisfied with what I am using at the present time, I don't go trying other things, no matter what other people say.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
richhotrain How do you choose the right decoder for you? Do you go in different directions when you are choosing sound or non-sound?
It's primarily two factors that determine a decoder for me, Rich: Size and performance.
I have a number of early switchers on my layout - e.g. SW1s, HH600s, S1s, and VO-660s. The amount of room under the hood is often not all that much so decoder size is pretty crucial so that it all fits.
Even more so, I want my switchers to have the best low-speed response that I can get. My ideal is 1 sMPH or less on speed step 001. Some decoders are able to achieve this and some can't. The locomotive itself is a determining factor, as well.
Case in point, I installed a Lenz Silver MP decoder in a Walthers SW1. Lenz Silver decoders have excellent back EMF. The Roco motors that originally came with the Walther SW1s were VERY good, too. With that combination, I can get that SW1 to start out at 0.33 sMPH.
The decoders that I've found with the best low-speed response have been Lenz Gold- and Silver-series, "Q2" QSI, Loksound, NCE, and TCS. Digitrax is good but not as good as the one's just mentioned.
And - for me - sound is nice but not necessary. Loksound, QSI, and Soundtraxx all make very good sound decoders. However, if I had a choice between sound and low-speed response, low-speed response wins hands-down every time. Loksound and the newer "Q2" decoders from QSI offer the best of both worlds.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I tried a bunch. My very first two were Digitrax since htey had th eonly true drop in for Proto 2000 Geeps (no changing the bulbs out). For mass conversions I gave the NCE D13SRJ a try, and they worked well in better quality locos. Probably the best non-BEMF motor decoder - and you can;t beat the price, $11.99 each in 10 pack quantities. Far superior to other more expensive non-BEMF decoders like Bachmann's and definitely a good option if you need to equip lots of locos with a good reliable decoder.
I tried a coupel of the original TCS decoders, before BEMF, but they didn't do anything really that the NCE didn't, and cost a lot more at the time. I used a few random specials, but being in HO, form factor is just about my LAST consideration. I hardwaire nearly every decoder install I do and don;t attempt to rely on Brand X's random made in China "DCC ready" circuit board. To date I have yet to fry a single decoder. Strippign potentially flakey factory circuit boards certainly has contributed to this success rate. The other thing is to ALWAYS test on the program track first, where the low power cannot fry anything. Unless you are using a system that doesn't have a low current program track, but you can fake it with a resistor in the line.
After being away for a coupel of years and then getting back in, the first installs I did I used the newer TCS decoders with BEMF and really liked them. They also have a wide variety of sizes and shapes if you need them - I do have lots of RS-3's which do not fit the T1 and so I have to use somethign smaller, but mostly I use T1's. My era and road does not have anything for lighting other than a headlight and backup light, so I don;t need fancy decoders with a dozen functions. With one standard brand I have little need for JMRI to program them, after you've done a half dozen you sort of remember the CV values you need, especially when there are no lighting effects involved. Address and basic directional lights is all I need, really just one change from default because I swap out any incandescent bulbs for LEDs and there's a CV in TCS that adjust the dimming to work better with LEDs.
FOr sound I have at least one of nearly everything. I picked up an MRC for super cheap so I could stop just takign others' word for it that they aren;t very good, I don;t like just spouting off second hand information. Well, they DO stink,t eh sounds are horrible. Digitrax has better sounds, and that's saying something - although third party sound projects for DIgitrax have gone way beyond what they seem to have available in the Sound Depot. The MRC RUNS fine, the sounds ar ejust horrible, and the horns are not distinguishable as to what horn they are. No point in giving 32 horn choices if you don't knwo what horn it's supposed to be.
I also picked up a Tsunami loco and was expectign to have programming trouble since I don;t have a program track booster (never needed one for early BLI locos with QSI). However, it reads and writes just fine on my Zephyr and PR3. I AM very disappointed in the sound though, the lack of an ability to 'load' the prime mover as if starting a heavy train is annoying - even with momentum enabled, the loco moves and THEN the sound changes. The horns, despite lots of messing with the equalizer and reverb, are rather weak. I have an older dummy B unit I fitted with an old SOundtraxx LC decoder and a really BIG speaker and it sounds nearly as good as the much more expensive Tsunami.
I'm actually leanign towards standardizing my sound on Loksound, since they have user repalceable sounds, even without editing said sounds. Thus there is never a shortange of a given decoder with a certain sound, since allt he decoders are the same and you can plug in the sounds. SInce every programmable decoder like this has a proprietary programming device, standardizing on one is a good idea so as to not have to buy a bunch of programmers. Loksound has multiple form factors and sizes in their line, and superb motor control, which is why I am leanign that way. Things I can do with them - for example, their RS-3 sounds do not have the M3RT horn I need, but they DO have an M3 in their sound library, and it's really easy to just swap the sounds with their software, so I can have the proper prime mover with the proper horn. It's a future project to install a few more sound decoders, I want to try and get my Brass RS-3 into runnign shape and it will probably end up with Loksound.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Rich.
I own over 70 decodered pieces of railroad equipment and also do instals for club members and others in my area. I average 2 to 3 decoders a month. Everything from Soundtraxx LC to TCS to Lenz mini golds with power loss supply. When I started doing DCC, decoders were huge in size and very expensive to boot. I can only give you my personal opinion on the experience I have with all these decoders.
Digitrax gave me a bad experience with a warranty claim on the only 2 decoders that have ever failed on me so I will never own one but have installed some for others. Their lighting for LEDs is not the best and for the price do not have what other decoders that are cheaper offer. Motor control is fair and you really have to have a smooth running loco to start with.
Lenz decoders have great motor control but the lighting functions are not as good as other decoders at half the price. Their PSP system even makes changes on dirty track.
NCE decoders are cost effective for fleet changeovers when bought in numbers. Lighting is great and in my opinion have the best ditch light effects with LEDs than any other brand of decoder. Motor control is good but sometimes can make a motor hum.
TCS has been my go to decoder for their motor control, lighting functions and cost. I have stuffed Z scale size decoders in older split frame HO locos that no other decoder would ever dare fit. They are great if you ever want to run your loco on a DC layout where all other decoders have quirks doing.LEDs really shine on TCS decoders.
Loksound lokpilot motor and lighting decoders have the best automatic adjusting BEMF ever. Super duper slow speed.
Soundtraxx had the LC series that was not so LC compared to newer decoders. Fair sound and generic sound files. Not easily speed stepped with other decoders.
Tsunamis have some good points but not as customizable as other sound decoders. They tend to jump when starting.
QSI as factory installed have been great but sound is tinny or too high pitched. If it has RTC it is great in motor control. Lighting is limited to what the manufacture specified.
QSI aftermarket is an ok sound decoder with good volumes and better lighting control over the factory stuff. Large in size so needs more room for installation. I have absolutely no experience with the newer Titan decoders so I can not comment on them.
Loksound V3.5 had the best prime mover sounds of any decoder but the horn and whistles were very weak. They needed special speakers and some of the wires came off the 8 pin plug right out of the package. Motor control was very good and lighting was fair but handled LEDs very well.
Loksound V4 are great decoders. Very good horn and whistle volume and use any 4 to 8 ohm speaker. Motor control is fabulous.
Loksound Select for USA is not as customizable as the other Loksounds but are great decoders that come pre loaded with multiple prime movers and 16 different whistles that can be selected with CVs. I have been installing these in brass steamers and getting great reviews from other modelers.
MRC. I have only removed these and installed something other in their place. Never had luck with them even when Athearn used them for factory sounds. Had one that had CRS (Can't remember stuff) every time it was powered down. The address,CV29 and any other changes would be scrambled. The worst part was it would not revert back to factory defaults but random things.
These are my observations and experiences.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
richhotrainI am curious about how you decide to purchase a decoder when choice among different manufacturers is available. How do you choose the right decoder for you? Do you go in different directions when you are choosing sound or non-sound?
I had a similar issue about 3 yrs ago over Installing or buying. My conclusion was what works for your situation and your layout . Does everything need sound and who makes the best sound. who makes the best for power. For its always those 2 issues that are at hand. I use Digitrax, Soundtrax, QSI, I am in the process of purchasing a Tsunami decoder for a real old UP Diesel Engine I had when I was 20yrs old. Good Luck my friend
NickyB
Remember if it wasn't for us Model Railroaders the industry would collapse