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Speakers for Sound decoders

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Posted by richg1998 on Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:43 PM

Good point. I am going to start using the Digest method.

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 9:18 PM

I'm a member of many Yahoo groups, although there are only aboubu 6 of them I have mail sent from. I always get digests, because I'm used to the format (and don;t reply to a digest!) since I've been using mailign lists sinc ebefore there was an internet. Once in a while there is a spam message,but very rarely. ALmost always froms omeone with a Yahoo email who has been compromised, but the groups I subscribe to have pretty active moderators who immediately put a person liek this on moderated status so they can;t keep spamming.

 There are groups for each major DCC manufacturer, plus ones for many of the decoder brands as well. Great sources of information. Some groups have participation by representatives fo the manufacturer, others are user to user.

                      --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:33 PM

rrinker

 One of the big time sound builders, might have been Laurie from Australia, had a Youtube video comparing different enclosures, including ones made from lead. DOuble benefit - if you have to carve away the loco frame to maek room for the speaker and enclosure, but make the enclosure from lead, you might just end up with a net weight GAIN instead of loss.

                   --Randy

 

The You Tube  speaker comparison link I left a couple messages back was made by Laurie. Look though others by Laurie and you might find the one about enclosures. Laurie does a lot with DCC including decoder operated animation projects.

I would recommend joining a couple Yahoo DCC  Groups but hackers have nearly taken over some of the groups by infecting users email. I have belonged to Yahoo Groups since 1998 and things have got quite bad the past four years or so.

Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by rrinker on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 5:54 PM

 One of the big time sound builders, might have been Laurie from Australia, had a Youtube video comparing different enclosures, including ones made from lead. DOuble benefit - if you have to carve away the loco frame to maek room for the speaker and enclosure, but make the enclosure from lead, you might just end up with a net weight GAIN instead of loss.

                   --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by Mark R. on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:16 PM

What the speaker enclosure is made from will greatly affect the sound as well. Those little plastic snap-in boxes are really convenient, but plastic is probably one of the worst materials for a speaker enclosure. They easily will set up an unwanted resonance and cause the sound to be shallow.

I've been experimenting with enclosures made from wood and lead and the results are astounding ! Lead has an absolute zero rating for resonance and wood will absorb any excess resonance - the main reason home speakers are built into wood cabinets and not plastic tote boxes !!!

Mark.

¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ

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Posted by richg1998 on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 10:20 AM

Multiple speaker info. Store this link in Favorites, There is a lot of DCC and sound info, plus installation tips.

http://www.mrdccu.com/curriculum/speakers.htm

Rich

 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by CharlieM90 on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 7:29 AM

scottso699

 

 

 

 

One other question now - you said use two speakers - is there no danger in using two? Can you harm a decoder buy having it power too many speakers? (this is generally speaking - not necessarily relating to my choice of decoder)

With multiple speakers you'll need to wire them to match impedence with the output amplifier of the decoder.

Determine output rating and then configure speakers appropriately. For an amplifier with 4 ohm impedence (typical) use 2 8-ohm speakers in parallel. Or 2 2-ohm speakers in series.( And make sure they're in phase or the sound will be truly awful).

Impedence mis-matching is the "danger" you're referring to. If your total speaker impedence falls below rating for the output amplifier (i.e. decoder), you're likely to destroy it.

Hope this helps.

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Posted by Train Modeler on Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:09 AM

richg1998

 

Speaker sampling video below. There are other videos by this fellow. One is Reverse Speaker Mounting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EslMEFmxKpw

Rich

 

Thanks for the link.    And he liked the forward facing speaker better, so did I.  But it's of course preference and install considerations.    BTW, I use thick cardstock for enclosures many times and have good results--similar to the effect of wood and helps with isolation and clarity of sound.

Richard

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Posted by Boise Nampa & Owyhee on Monday, April 9, 2012 7:43 PM


Don't over look the speakers that come in recent issue greeting cards.........  I rat hole the batteries also for my digital caliper.

see ya

Bob

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Posted by richg1998 on Monday, April 9, 2012 5:37 PM

Speaker sampling video below. There are other videos by this fellow. One is Reverse Speaker Mounting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EslMEFmxKpw

Rich

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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Posted by Train Modeler on Monday, April 9, 2012 5:02 PM

While the speaker produces sound on both sides and pretty equally. The nature of the shape of the cone itself and unobstructed cone makes forward facing a little better.    Also metal cones and bigger magnets can make the difference even moreso.   And the speakers with metal cones and bigger magnets normally sound better, particularly at the lower frequencies.   

You can play with bouncing the sound off of the layout, that is downward facing speakers or up, or even as Atlas does in their diesels you can form a teepee where they face each other and then down.  This installation allows for larger round speakers.    I normally put 2 speakers in each loco, with at least one being a high bass type or bass reflex.   A good speaker is around $8 or so.   Some places I normally go to are:

http://www.litchfieldstation.com/xcart/home.php

http://www.tonystrains.com/

http://dccinstallsandsales.com/store/catalog/index.php?cPath=46&osCsid=e765ca9a62f0d8eb9b8947a0a66ba55b

Pay attention to the frequency range, materials of construction, size, ohms and watts.    And since you're experimenting, I would suggest you try a large speaker and cutting it down some.  You can gain .100" to .200" this way.  Also, make your own enclosures, the bigger the better and experiment with materials of construction for this too.    Don't be afraid to use the loco shell as part of your enclosure.

Richard

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Posted by garyla on Saturday, April 7, 2012 1:26 PM

cacole

You obviously haven't seen MRC's MSRP for their newest sound decoder -- it's actually more expensive than a Tsumani or LokSound Select.

 

Pretty brave move by MRC!     Anybody seen sales reports on how THAT'S working out?

If I ever met a train I didn't like, I can't remember when it happened!
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Posted by cacole on Saturday, April 7, 2012 10:00 AM

hobo9941

And they cost about a third of what the Tsunami costs.

You obviously haven't seen MRC's MSRP for their newest sound decoder -- it's actually more expensive than a Tsumani or LokSound Select.

 

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Posted by Mark R. on Saturday, April 7, 2012 12:17 AM

The biggest advantage of having the face of the speaker in the enclosure is that it creates a larger volume IN the enclosure. The other way around, the speaker magnet is taking up valuable airspace within the enclosure. The more air volume within a sealed enclosure, the better the sound reproduction. Of course in a lot of cases, we just don't have the room to do this.

Mark.

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Posted by hobo9941 on Thursday, April 5, 2012 9:29 PM

The direction the speaker is pointing is irrelevant.  When the cone moves it moves air. The moving air makes the sound. I don't know why that specific speaker is pointed that way, might just be that it was easier to mount it that way, OR the speaker magnet does not fit into the baffle. 

The reason the speakers are mounted firing into the baffle is because the contacts are on the back. If the speaker is mounted the other way, as I have done a few times to get enough clearance, then you have to drill a couple holes in the baffle or one hole to get the wires onto the back of the speaker. Then you have to seal the hole with something. It's not a problem, but they are saving a step of labor mounting the speakers that way.

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Posted by scottso699 on Thursday, April 5, 2012 8:17 AM

Texas Zepher

 

 scottso699:
The sound decoder came with a speaker that has a little black baffle on it - why is the speaker pointing into the baffle? Shouldn't the speaker be pointing out and the baffle be on the back of the speaker?

The direction the speaker is pointing is irrelevant.  When the cone moves it moves air. The moving air makes the sound. I don't know why that specific speaker is pointed that way, might just be that it was easier to mount it that way, OR the speaker magnet does not fit into the baffle. 

 

 

I plan to install this in an IHC 2-10-2 which has holes already made in the tender floor and a place to insert a speaker. Do i take the baffle off and point the speaker downward towards the track? Do I leave it on and place it in the area where the speaker goes (essentially pointing the speaker up to the coal load)?

The IHC is set up for the tender body to be the speaker enclosure.  I would get a speaker that exactly fits the pre-defined place in the tender.   As the others have already said any air excaping around the edge of the speaker will lower the sound volume and probably quality.    Likewies I would not put the pre-baffled speaker into the tender facing up.   That would block the holes in the bottom and there would be almost no way for the sound to excape.

 

 

This is exactly what I was looking for - thanks very much for your help!

Scott

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Posted by hobo9941 on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 11:14 PM

I have 8 or 9 MRC decoders, 1634s, 1800s, etc, along with Tsunamis, and Soundtraxx. Heres my take on the MRCs. I have never fried one or had it just die. All are still working in various locos. They are too loud, and you can't turn down the volume. Motor control isn't the best. You can program the address, and not much more. Most don't read back CVs. A couple do. Occasionally, they lose their address, and have to be reprogrammed. But they are cheap, and include the speaker. And they are a cheap way to get into sound. I have no plans to buy any more MRC decoders, but they aren't the total junk that some are claiming. And they cost about a third of what the Tsunami costs.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 4:06 PM

scottso699
The sound decoder came with a speaker that has a little black baffle on it - why is the speaker pointing into the baffle? Shouldn't the speaker be pointing out and the baffle be on the back of the speaker?

The direction the speaker is pointing is irrelevant.  When the cone moves it moves air. The moving air makes the sound. I don't know why that specific speaker is pointed that way, might just be that it was easier to mount it that way, OR the speaker magnet does not fit into the baffle. 

I plan to install this in an IHC 2-10-2 which has holes already made in the tender floor and a place to insert a speaker. Do i take the baffle off and point the speaker downward towards the track? Do I leave it on and place it in the area where the speaker goes (essentially pointing the speaker up to the coal load)?

The IHC is set up for the tender body to be the speaker enclosure.  I would get a speaker that exactly fits the pre-defined place in the tender.   As the others have already said any air excaping around the edge of the speaker will lower the sound volume and probably quality.    Likewies I would not put the pre-baffled speaker into the tender facing up.   That would block the holes in the bottom and there would be almost no way for the sound to excape.

 

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Posted by woodone on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 2:26 PM

You are going to get more than your feet wet! Take Dave's advice. Don't start with a MRC sound decoder. It will wet down your sound decoder wants.

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Posted by scottso699 on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:33 PM

locoi1sa

Scott.

 Does the speaker cover all the holes in the tender floor? If not then you will get a lot of sound cancellation and distortion. If the speaker is larger then you can toss the enclosure for it and use the tenders shell as an enclosure. General rule is the larger the enclosure the better the sound. Always fit the largest speaker you can. The ones that come with the decoders are sometimes good enough but if the tender is big enough then I either use 2 speakers or one larger oval shaped speaker.

  Loksound Select decoders are just a few $ more then that Chinese made thing you got.

      Pete

Pete - thanks for the tip - I have never even heard of Loksound so I will now do some investigating into them. This is going into a VERY large tender. From what I can tell IHC used the same 6 wheel trucked tenders that Rivarossi used on their Pacific engines. The thing is huge! One other question now - you said use two speakers - is there no danger in using two? Can you harm a decoder buy having it power too many speakers? (this is generally speaking - not necessarily relating to my choice of decoder)

Thanks

Scott 

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Posted by locoi1sa on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:19 PM

Scott.

 Does the speaker cover all the holes in the tender floor? If not then you will get a lot of sound cancellation and distortion. If the speaker is larger then you can toss the enclosure for it and use the tenders shell as an enclosure. General rule is the larger the enclosure the better the sound. Always fit the largest speaker you can. The ones that come with the decoders are sometimes good enough but if the tender is big enough then I either use 2 speakers or one larger oval shaped speaker.

  Loksound Select decoders are just a few $ more then that Chinese made thing you got.

      Pete

 I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!

 I started with nothing and still have most of it left!

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Posted by scottso699 on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 1:10 PM

Thanks David - I know the choppy waters I am wading into (I have read plenty of your posts!) - I am on a bare bone budget and the $40 i spent on the decoder and speaker seemed too good to pass up. I really just wanted to find out about the speaker though and you have been very helpful with that and I thank you.

 

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Speakers for Sound decoders
Posted by scottso699 on Wednesday, April 4, 2012 10:22 AM

Hi Everyone - I am relatively new to the DCC sound world - i have been using DCC for about 2 years but had no DCC sound equipped engines (ok I'll wait until everyone finishes gasping for air). We I picked up an Atlas Trainmaster on ebay for a really good price and now of course i want sound in everything. I am on a tight budget so I have waited to buy on sale. Well I found a really good sale on an MRC 1639 decoder and a 28mm speaker (really? mms? where are we? France?). I know they are not popular and I know the reasons (thus why i probably got it so cheap) but figured I'd get my feet wet with a cheap decoder first. Then I'll dive into a Tsunami decoder once I have a handle on arranging these things. My question is this: The sound decoder came with a speaker that has a little black baffle on it - why is the speaker pointing into the baffle? Shouldn't the speaker be pointing out and the baffle be on the back of the speaker? I plan to install this in an IHC 2-10-2 which has holes already made in the tender floor and a place to insert a speaker. Do i take the baffle off and point the speaker downward towards the track? Do I leave it on and place it in the area where the speaker goes (essentially pointing the speaker up to the coal load)? This is an 8 ohm speaker and measures to be about 1.1 inches so its a decent size.

Thanks,

Scott 

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