Santa Fe all the way!Im done. The next time I feel the need to post a thread on this forum, Im making myself a sandwich and work on the layout instead. Bye.
Taking an unpopular position on this forum does not work out well if you are thin-skinned. And supporters of each position talking past each other doesn't make for a pleasant experience, either. But more importantly, the forum sure beats learning everything the hard way on my own. For that reason, I remain a participant depsite the occasional barbs thrown my way. And I'm guilty of having thrown a few barbs of my own.
I do tend to limit my reading and posts to those topics and threads I am most passionate about.
I would suggest not quitting the forum. Instead, be prepared to understand those who challenge your opinion or conclusions. Is their challenge merely an opinion, or a logical conclusion stemming from facts or experiences?
If you hadn't posted, would you have bought one of the newest MRC decoders to try on your own? And then realized after investing the time and money, it wasn't what you expected?
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
I have first hand knowledge of them. Look at my post at the top of page 2. I love MRC decoders.
Like I said in a previous reply. Several club members had paid a professional to instal decoders in their locomotives. When they quit running and the sounds had failed they asked me to look at them. So far I have removed 6 MRC sound decoders and 3 non sound decoders and installed either Soundtraxx, Loksound, and TCS decoders for replacements for them. One guy bought a Prodigy system (not sure which one) hooked it up and it quit in the first day. He exchanged it at the LHS he bought it from and it worked several months before the back light and screen went blank. He sent it to MRC with a copy of the receipt and they fixed it. The first day back from MRC the screen went blank again. He called MRC and they said it was something he must have done to short out the screen. He sent it back with the repair order and another copy of the receipt. They called him back about 2 weeks later and said they would need his credit card number to bill him for the repair. (Hows that for customer service?) He told them to forget the repair and send it back to him. They made him pay for the return shipping!!! Him and I took the hand set apart to see what had failed and found that a piece of flash from the plastic housing was pressing on the corner of the LCD screen and cracked the rear glass. (Something my friend did?) Why wasn't it fixed the first time? He has called and E-mailed asking for a replacement LCD and was told there were no user serviceable parts inside. He would have to buy a new hand set. If this is indicative of the quality and customer service from MRC then I will shy away from their products. Like I said before. They have not made a quality product since the steel case DC power packs of years past. I can see why they have to have the big rear cover ads so they can hook someone to try their products. Like my dad said, Pay no attention to big ads. Look at the little ones because they let the product speak for itself instead of the paper telling you how good it is.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Santa Fe all the way!OK, I finally get it, MRC IS Messed up! I just called their contact number for DCC and WOW, these people are really wingnuts. This guy I get sounds irritated/bothered/arrogant /*** that he has to answer a couple of questions from a customer. He told me that my older Ath Genesis F units factory sound was a real recorded 567 and so is the new 16 bit decoder ,so it probably wouldnt be much of an improvement to install the new ones. What? Why in the heck did they come out with a new line if there no improvement!? This guy is their link to their customers...OH BOY. Im officially a member of the MRC dislikers club! (MRCDC) That company is doomed.
Okay, I'm confused. Aside from your perception of the guy's attitude, what you asked for was "first hand observations/ sound sample or link to sound sample for the NEW 16bit decoders." So you call them and the guy you talk to, who could have told you that the new decoder was great and attempted to sell you a new one, offers the opinion that there isn't much difference between the old and the new and basically implies that you shouldn't waste your money. I would presume that he would have "first hand" knowledge of the decoder, which was what you asked for.
And you fly off the handle and join the MRC dislikers club because he gave you what appears to be an honest answer which you didn't want to hear?
Would it have made a difference if someone not related to MRC had given you the same answer? Or would that someone be considered part of the "MRC is the devil" group?
Just asking.
Beside the older DC power packs MRC has not made a quality product in over a decade. Not one of their decoders has survived our clubs layout.
I too am impressed with the Loksound version4 and Select decoders. I just wish they would come out with an instruction manual for the version 4 programmer software. The version 2 software was great but the latest version I just can not figure out. A word of warning about the Select decoders. You can not configure individual sounds. It comes as a package with several prime mover, bell, and horn/whistle sounds. If the sound set does not come with a particular horn you want you can not add it or change it. You have to change the whole sound set. The version 4 decoder is more customizable. Loksound motor control is second to none. They have improved their lighting control CVs but finding the right combinations of CVs is hard to figure out. Other than improving the manuals they are great decoders and turning out to be my first choice for new sound decoder installations.
Check E-bay for programers. I picked up a Lokprogramer for $30. It even came with the USB adapter and power supply. The software and manuals are downloads on the ESU website.
Thank you, that is very nice news!
Hrvoje
Every time I read a message from someone who is raving about how wonderful an MRC sound decoder is, my first impression is that he or she probably works for MRC, is an MRC dealer, or works for the advertising agency that produces the horribly exaggerated claims about MRC sound decoders.
If MRC would just redirect some of the money on actual research and quality control instead of very expensive color advertising that appears in all of the model railroad publications, they could actually produce a good sound decoder. As it is, they seem to use the cheapest possible manufacturer they could find in China who does absolutely no quality control testing and uses the cheapest possible components.
None of the hobby publications will tell you how much a full-page color advertisement on the back cover costs unless you are a big manufacturer who hires an advertising agency, but it probably would be in the ballpark of $10K per issue, so MRC seems to be spending close to $25K per month on advertising. Are they really selling enough sound decoders to justify such an expenditure?
Over the years, I've had 3 or 4 MRC decoders go up in smoke within 15 minutes, or were totally dead on arrival. I'll never touch another one no matter how many exaggerated claims they make.
Spalato68 Mark, do you refer on Loksound Select or Loksound V4.0 regarding manual notching feature? Thanks, Hrvoje
Mark,
do you refer on Loksound Select or Loksound V4.0 regarding manual notching feature?
Thanks,
Loksound quit using true manual notching with the 3.5 decoders. Subsequent Select and 4.0 decoders went to a "manual notching" which was nothing more than a pre-set (user selectable) number of notches the prime mover would increase by pressing a single function button. Interesting, but not very proto-typical and the masses voiced their opinion about having true manual notching put back as it was on the 3.5 decoders.
Well, our voices were heard. I just finished Beta testing the new manual notching, and it's great ! One function button increases the engine notch and another button decreases it - totally independant of whatever speed step you are running at. You can even do an eight notch load test without even moving. Great fun to have your engine crawling up a hill in notch 8.
This new release should be made available to the public to use in all Select and 4.0 decoders within the next week .... you'll love it !
Mark.
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
They are like QSI, where any decoder can have any sounds. Most dealers preload a sound set of your choice. You can replace them if you have the specific programmer. Of the ones I consider the top 3, Soundtraxx, QSI, and Loksound, only the Tsunami has fixed sounds per SKU. Back to the past. The QSI and ESU models are better for dealers - just stock a set of decoders in each form factor, sound set does not matter, you can install whatever the customer orders. If a dealer has a TSU1000AT with FDL16 but is out of the TSU1000AT with EMD 645, he can't make the sale.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Mark, thanks for the info on the new loksound decoders. I may just have to get a couple of these for my next DCC installs.
Question on the loksound decoders. They need to be programmed for the specific diesel sounds?
They are different than QSI/Tsumanis where they already have the sounds per model.
Please explain what "ready for programming" means?
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Right out of the box, the Loksound decoders work really well. They do load up before they move just as they should. The manual notching is a really cool feature in that once the speed step is non-zero, you can notch the sound up without increasing the physical speed greatly replicating getting a heavy train under way.
With this you can also replicate a load test by running up through all eight notches while sitting still !
The dynamic brake feature is really slick as well - unlike any other decoder out there. When you turn on dynamic brakes, the engine sound immediately notches down to idle and the dynamic fans start. Your physical speed does not change. During this process, you can throttle the speed down (when running downhill). When you turn dynamics off, the fan winds down and the engine notches back up to match where your throttle is now set - just like the real thing !
If you like playing with more sounds and features besides just the bell and horn, these Loksound decoders are packed full of correct proto-type features and sounds.
Definitely worth considering, I probably wasn;t goign to use the SOundbug, I mentioned that as a comparison for MRC. I have a pair of PCM steam locos with Loksound in them, and indeed, they run and sound great - do need to find someone with a Loksound programmer to replace the sounds with some real Reading T-1 sounds though, but it's close enough. I haven't tried any of their diesel sounds, I was probbaly goign to put a QSI Titan in it. I need to check current - I'd liek to put sound in my Brass RS3 as well as either the Athearn or one of the multitude of Atlas ones I have yet to finish - all undec, need added details and paint/decals.
All i want to know about the Loksound diesel sound decoders is - do they load up, if I set momentum to something non-zero and crank open the throttle, will is load up and then scale back the sound as the loco reaches speed like the QSI. This is the biggest place where Soundtraxx missed the boat and it drives me bonkers. Enough even to replace the one Tsunami and maybe even the old DSD I have in a dummy (the DSD-LC they sold as 'generic' but it's pretty much a 567)
Edit: Huge bummer, the Select does not have a Nathan M3 horn, nore does the Loksound 4.0 with the Alco 244. Very popular horn on the RS3, at least the M-3RT1 variation with the center bell tilted to face back over the cab. Now, depending on which P3 they recorded, it could be used instead - the ORIGINAL P3 sounded the same chord as the M3, but newer P3's are different. Yes, I suppose I am being picky, but I am going to the effort of installing the proper bracket and horn from Cal-Scale on each RS3, so I want the right sound, too. Of course they call it a "D&H horn" and some horn sites say they M-3RT1 was made for the D&H - umm, those RS3's were used Reading ones.
rrinker My Soundbug makes better Alco sounds, although no one has a 244 project so I can't use it in an RS3. --Randy
My Soundbug makes better Alco sounds, although no one has a 244 project so I can't use it in an RS3.
Loksound has a 244 project in their Select Direct line of decoders. Not really sure why people always tend to forget about Loksound decoders when the topic of sound comes up. They've recently released an Atlas style board as a drop-in replacement, their motor control is second to none and they are adding new sound files on a regular basis.
I went on the recording session with ESU when they did the C630M, and I can tell you, these are not "pitch bent" sounds. Each notch was recorded under load including the proper transitions between each notch.
These decoders also have manual notching and a properly functioning dynamic brake - not just a button that turns on a fan sound ! Anyone interested in proto-typical sound really needs to check these out.
Ah, yes. MRC, the company that will lie to your face. They did to me. I asked them at the Springfield Show about their new (at the time) drop in sound decoder for Atlas S-unit locos. I told them I heard rumors that they had recorded the wrong engine for their sound effects. The MRC rep. told me that oh, no, those rumors were wrong and that all their sound decoders are recorded live from the real engines that match the decoders.
BZZZZZZT! Wrong! The Alco S-unit board they made distinctly sounds like an Alco 244 V-12 RS-3 and not a straight-6 539 Alco. Most people can tell the difference between a 6 cylinder and a 12 cylinder engine...but MRC can't.The funny part to me is that months later, the as ever ridiculous back of MR advertizing from MRC actually described the S-unit sound decoder as having a 244 prime mover in it. D'oh! Also, I've said it before, and I'll say it again... MRC sound decoders have a 50% failure rate at our DCC club. At least half have failed to either program or run (or both!).
Paul A. Cutler III
Have you heard any others? The Alco sounds in the one MRC decoder I have are hideous compared to my MTH. And I guess you must just pick whatever horn sounds good to you, without regard for what horn is actually on the given loco, since MRC can't tell you which is a Nathan 5 chime, a Leslie 5 chime, etc. Seems funny to me if they really went out and recorded the sounds from actual locomotives, they could have written down each horn the captured so they'd know which one was which.
I'll need some serious convincing to get an MRC decoder again. I have one. It actually still works, but it has to be reset periodically, it just goes haywire and quits working, thank God for Decoder Pro. The worst part is the sound, it is way too loud and I can't adjust it any lower, it is on its lowest setting now. It will teach me to go cheap on one of my son's locos!
Like it or not, MRC has a serious PR issue on its hands. What amounts to blatant over inflation of their performance in their advertising is hardly the way to woo sceptics. For every person that is happy with their product there appears to be a dozen who have had a bad experience. Frankly, if it were not for their distribution channels, putting their product at bargain prices in every general purpose hobby shop, I can't imagine they would still be in business with their track record in DCC.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I whole-heartedly disagree.
I have several MRC sound decoders, including the 1955, and they sound fantastic. They have been run two to three times a day for the past 16 months or so. They are extremely reliable. I love them and will continue to buy them when I acquire new engines.
Want a sucky decoder? Buy Digitrax.
Let's put it this way. I purchased ONE MRC sound decoder. Never ever again.
Fool me once, shame on them. Fool me twice, shame on me.
FWIW I've got one of the new $40+ Digitrax sound decoders on order, be interesting to see how that works. One nice thing is you can download new sounds onto it.
Wouldn't this fall into that "you get what you pay for" category ?
I'm in a 'wait and see' mode too. I have already been bit once.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Your gamble, go ahead and save $40 and take the risk, but please report back your experiences as a benefit to the community.
I prefer to support another company whom has first class engineering, service and support. As far as I'm concerned MRC has done damage to the hobby with their Tyco quality decoders, it will take a decade of outstanding MRC products to possibly erase the failures of the past. If they do, good for them, but until that happens...
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
They don't even have manuals to view on their web site for the new ones. I want to see if they actually list what the horn and bell sounds are, not just how they have such an awesome amount of memory that they can story dozens of horns and bells and let you select them with a CV. Everyone else that does this lists that settign the horn CV to 1 is a P3, 2 is a P5, 3 is a E2, etc so you know which one you need to select.
They ARE touting them as "the world's most advanced decoders" and "engineered in New Jersey" LOL
But I'll bet their advertising will claim that it's a revolution in sound technology and light years ahead of everyone else.
Joe