QRNational4101 Am I best off to bite the bullet and go DCC right from the start? Anthony.
My layout is fully DC and probably will always be like that. It's what is right for me. However, if I was ever to start over (new layout and locos) I would seriously consider DCC. If you plan on going to DCC at some point in the future, you will make it much easier on yourself just doing it now. You will save a ton of money in wiring as well.
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QRNational4101Hi all, Is there any such thing as wireless DC controllers, ....Is there a wireless DC setup I can buy? .....Cheers, Anthony.
Anthony,
Aristo Craft makes wireless DC controllers. I own what's called their Basic Train Engineer. Its only for running one train. Not sure what your goal is, but I use it for when I took my small layout concept and expanded it to 13x35 feet. It allows me to walk along with the train aso I can do things like hand throw turnouts, uncouple, etc. Its basically just a wireless extension of the power pack's throttle so you can operate a simple layout over more square footage.
They make a multi-channel contoller as well which is advertised to handle ten different locomotives. How that works with typical DC block control, I'm not sure. (I probably knew at one time but have forgotten since that doesn't interest me). Others on this forum use that system as their permanent system and are quite happy with it.
Only you can determine if these are good choices for your ultimate goal. I know the Aristo Craft products have been around a long time and are of good quality.
My BTE cost $100 about 3 years ago. Check out their website or ebay for prices on their systems. Aristo Craft is a garden railroad dominated company, so your LHS may not be familiar with their products and may be of limited help.
- Douglas
I'm not trying to turn anyone away from DC if it's what one wants(or needs).I have an example living a block from my home...the gentleman has been operating a DC layout for years and obviously is most familiar with throwing all theses switches to control his trains.On top of this he says he owns over two hundred DC locos(mostly Athearn's) so for him,turning to DCC doesn't make sense.The cost of decoders alone is enough for him to not even consuder the switch.
But this case is much different as the gentleman knows from the get go that DCC is his goal.I'm not saying that DCC will be cheaper moneywise.In fact it would end up more expensive if going with all the bells and whistles DCC offers but going with a temporary compromise (meaning a good quality starter set),may be without wireless to be added as time goes on,is a logical option.
It may not sound as an immediate saving and probably isn't in term of cash outlay,but where the saving is is in term of all the extra wiring and work involved.Setting up a well running DCC layout is a lot of work but you can easily multiply these efforts by two,three or even more to set up a DC layout.And that is not counting all the switches and controls needed that will become obsolete when switching to DCC.
The size of the projected layout has its importance though.If you only want a small layout with little operational complexity like a single train,then DC is appealing.But if you want a larger layout,be able to run multiple trains,or push the options further and eventually have sound or automated controls or almost any functionality you may dream of,then DCC is the way to go.
Once one has come up with a decision,then the solution becomes more obvious.Like it's been sais,the call is yours.I personally own stuff that I don't use because I hadn't set my mind earlier and am sorry I did but...I did it and am trying to help others not to do it......
QRNational4101Am I best off to bite the bullet and go DCC right from the start?
That's really your question to answer. We can give plenty of pros and cons, and personal opinions but in the end it's your call. I'm a DC at home, but DCC at the club so I see both.
I would ask several questions to help you decide:
Let's look at some scenarios, assuming you have nothing on hand except some old DC powerpacks. And I assume from your interest in wireless that walkaround control is a requirement, DC or DCC.
1) (Cheapest - $10-$30 per throttle). You build some tethered walkaround throttles from circuits on the web. Circuits are available that add memory (train keeps running while you unplug/plug your throttle). There are plenty of circuits that provide performance equal to that of the better DCC decoders with a little tweaking of adjustments (simpler than optimizing CVs on a decoder, which is not hard). Or build very simple throttles that just vary the voltage.
2) Buy DC controllers (next cheapest - approx $40 per throttle). If you buy used MRC power packs, these are cheaper but do not have walkaround control.
3) Buy wireless DC (I don't know cost, but I assume getting close to $100-$200 per throttle).
4) NCE PowerCab DCC ($160). Gives you one tethered walkaround throttle. Use a DPDT switch to flip layout from DC to DCC (remove DC only engines during DCC operations). Can add wireless or other expansion later.
5) DCC (wireless from the start ($400+?).
I've priced a 2 tethered walkaround throttle DCC setup with computer interface for my home use - I keep coming up around $300-$400 unless I cut corners with jump throttles for the Digitrax Zephyr. Since I have plenty of DC equipment on hand (including self-built walkaround throttles), and none of my locos have decoders yet, there is not an urgent need to switch. If I were starting from scratch, I would start with DCC for club compatibility.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Somehow I don't get it...please someone tell me...Why would someone want to have a DC operated layout when he's planning to go DCC?Designing a "block control" is a lot of work,adds to the complexity of the wiring diagram and eventual troubleshooting becomes proportionally difficult,sometimes having a layout litterally paralized for long periods..Then if you add the DC controller(s) and in this case the wireless option,all the extra wiring and controls (block control switches,polarity reversing switches,etc) needed to operate even a moderately sized layout,I don't think the total costs of these items is that much short of a good DCC starter set plus may be a decoder or two,considering that sometime in the future,most of the DC hardware and all the extra work involved,will become practically wasted money and efforts.
And then,if this isn't enough,a DCC layout can be up and runnning much faster than a DC layout.Don't get me wrong though,DC is great if you want to run a simple oval with a spur or two or else one understands DC better and doesn't want DCC plain and simple.This is a choice I understand.But when someone says he wants DCC,why not go DCC from the get go and benefit from the advantages of DCC right away.
I'm actually building my layout and am going DCC right away.I don't see any point in investing in two systems,can't afford this....
QRNational4101Hi all, Is there any such thing as wireless DC controllers, .... Is there a wireless DC setup I can buy?
Most made these days are targeted at the garden railroads so it might be a good question to ask in that forum. Just be careful there because some of them asssume there is a battery powered locomotive involved not DC from the track. Don't know how much difference that would really make but it is a consideration.
I assume you just want a way to test everything before buying all the DCC boosters, decoders, etc.
Aristo sells some for outdoor G scale railroading which can also be used for indoor and smaller scale. I think they are in the area of $250. You may also be able to frind them on ebay in used condition if it will be temporary, you'll save some bucks.
QRNational4101Hi all, Is there any such thing as wireless DC controllers, similar to the wireless DCC controllers that are available. I am building my layout for DCC, but I don’t plan on getting the DCC system until the layout is up and running which wont be for quiet some time. Is there a wireless DC setup I can buy? If not, is there a dual mode wireless DCC system I could use, and switch over at a later date once I have decoders in all my equipment. Cheers, Anthony.
This is a fairly long answer because I'm not sure I understand your starting premise. Let's leave out the wireless angle for the moment. If I understand correctly, you already have:
You have a basic incompatibility if my assumptions are correct.
If you use a DC controller on a layout wired for DCC, you can effectively have only one locomotive on the layout at a time. DC depends on breaking the track into separate electrical sections (typically called blocks in the literature) to control each locomotive separately. So, to use more than one DC locomotive on the layout you need to wire the blocks separately.
A layout wired for DC, assuming decent wiring standards were used, can be easily switched to DCC by simply turning all blocks on, and connecting your DCC system in place of your DC controller.
Bottom line: if you wire for DCC (all track powered), you must have a DCC system to use more than one locomotive. If you want to start with DC and multiple engines on the layout, you must wire for DC. And easily switch to DCC later.
To answer your wireless question: there are some very good DC wireless systems - Aristo comes to mind. Commands go wireless to a DC throttle located under the layout, and then wired through your block control system to the the track. No modifications/decoders needed for your locomotives.
But if you are installing an Aristo system, and wiring your layout for DC, I don't see a lot of benefit in planning to change to DCC later. You will have already built a 1st class control system in DC.
If DCC is your true end goal, then use a tethered beginner system like NCE PowerCab to start with, and upgrade to wireless when you are ready. Start with decoders in your favorite locomotive(s), then convert more as time goes on. And don't worry about DC layout wiring in this scenario.