Rookie modeller needs some wisdom...

[middwest rookie]

Hi! I'm new to the forums but a long-time Model RR fan. I am really enjoying reading your conversations!

My wife and I are in the planning stages of building a dog-bone layout, 17'x6'. I plan on running 2-3 trains at the beginning. I'd like to start with two operators but I will settle for just one operator if finances dictate. At a later date I'd like to upgrade to 5-7 trains running with three operators. 5-7 trains will include the locomotives in consists.

I want to go DCC on this large layout from the beginning. In my rush to get started I have started a 2'x6' door-top switching layout (double inglenooks off of a mainline and siding) to use as a testbed for tracklaying, soldering, scenery, wiring, etc. 

My questions are:

I'd like to hide the switch machines for the six turnouts I will be using on the door layout but I don't know how. I don't know want to mount switch machines on the underside of the layout as I want to be able to lay the door down on a table or bench without worring about equipment or wiring on the underside. Any ideas?

For the large layout I jumped the gun by purchasing an MRC Command 2000 from Ebay. I haven't received it yet, but it is just the command station, no remote, no power pack, etc. After doing some research post-purchase (terrible, I know - I'm so excited about getting back into the hobby that I just couldn't wait ) I am afraid that I won't be satisfied with the MRC 2000. I hope to sell it on ebay and re-coup my investment. In any case, I'd like to know your recommendations for a starter DCC system that will account for the expansion that I have outlined above. Specifically, would you recommend a Zephyr or one of the NCE systems?

History! - skip this paragraph if you are uninterested -

My father and I started model railroading in 1979 with a simple HO 4x8 oval and Rock Island train. It was one of the best Christmas gifts I ever received (I wore the locomotive out in a month I think). After 12 years of real-life and some moving we started again when I was 16. That project turned into a 96 sq. ft. monster that never made it beyond the track-testing stage (oh the mess from rasping the styrofoam!). Now, 16 years later (I'm 32 if you are keeping track) my father is about to move and I have inherited all of the track, rolling stock, buildings and structures. Woo Hoo!! After planting the "joys of model railroading seeds" in my wife's mind for 11 years, she was almost as excited as I was.

Thanks!

[BlueHillsCPR]

That is a great story!

I can't say too much about the MRC command 2000.  It may be ok but I advise you to avoid MRC decoders because of all the bad things I have seen written about them.  MRC was and still is a great DC powerpack but as for DCC I am not so sure.  Instead of telling you what I think, (I have yet to purchase DCC) I'll give you two links that I think have great information about choosing a DCC system.

Picking the best DCC system

12 years using DCC SIGNIFICANT NEW INFO!

 

[MisterBeasley]

Hi and welcome aboard to both of you!

Take a look at Peco turnouts.  They have a switch machine that attaches directly to the underside of the turnout.  You will need to cut a hole in the roadbed and base, but once installed it is only about an inch or so below the level of the base of the track, so if you're using 2-inch styrofoam it will be completely protected inside the base level.

Peco turnouts are kind of pricey.  They're very high quality, though, and you'll be happy with them.  Part of the problem is that they are British, and the low dollar right now has done horrible things to the price of most imports.

[tomikawaTT]

Addressing only the location of switch machines and other forms of point actuators:

Have you considered something like bicycle brake or gearshift cable, only without the armored outer shell.  Thin wire inside a slender plastic tube (think model airplane fuel line) can transfer the push-pull action from a switch machine hidden under a building to the points without ever going below the tabletop.

If you do bring the actuator out to the table edge, you can replace the switch machine ($$) with a cheap slide switch (pennies) and get electrical contacts for signals or panel indicators as a bonus.  (I drive turnout points with switch machines if they have to be operated from two or more places.  If only one place - an electrical switch at the edge of the table.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[corsair7]

I've been reading about DCC systems for years but only recently did I see any in use. I bought a Digitrax Zephyr for use on my layout when it's built. The club I belong to also uses Digitrax and I like the way it works and allows you to control the trains and not the power on the tracks. I use a radio throttle (DT400R) at the club and I've also gotten the necessary stuff to do that I my layout as well.

Irv

[retsignalmtr]

i have a digitrax super empire builder on my n scale layout and wouldn't trade it for anything. you might think of using caboose industries ground throws instead of powered machines. it reduces the wiring too. the're easy to install, will work with peco or atlas turnouts. if you can't mount them near the switch you can mount them at the edge of the door and run a piece of pianp wire in a plastic tube from the ground throw to the throw bar on the switch. the tubing can be covered by scenery. my club has several switches that cannot be reached from the edge and have ground throws 3' from the switch. 

[Stevert]

At a later date I'd like to upgrade to 5-7 trains running with three operators. 5-7 trains will include the locomotives in consists.

Specifically, would you recommend a Zephyr or one of the NCE systems?

  For the expandability you're looking at you can't beat the Zephyr. 

  If I'm not mistaken, the PowerCab, which is the entry-level NCE system, can't go above two cabs without adding another booster.  So the cost of expansion comes early.

  The Zephyr, on the other hand, can have up to 12 cabs - One built in, two jump throttles, and another nine Loconet throttles.  And if your "inheritance" includes an old DC powerpack or two, well, there's your additional (jump) throttles.

Seems like an easy choice to me.

Steve

[MisterBeasley]

One thing that people sometimes overlook is the feel of the throttle.  After all, that is your personal interface with the DCC system.  Some prefer untethered throttles with radio links.  Some like the ability of some Digitrax throttles to have 2 active locomotives selected.  I like the big buttons on my Lenz System 100 throttle, as opposed to the cell-phone buttons on other hand-held units.

The good news is that by now pretty much all of the systems are going to make you happy.  Avoid the eBay specials - many of them are non-expandable starter systems that people have outgrown.

[mreagant]

I've recently posted a couple of questions based on my 10 plus year operation with an MCR Command 2000 and my realization that going to the next step (sound)  was going to require a move to a state-of-the-art system.  I have had very good service from the Command 2000 and in many ways it does pretty much all I need it to do on a regular basis.

Deciding which of the currently available systems meets my desire to move into the 21st century DCCwise has been a huge task and I'm still undecided.  You might want to take a deep breath, wait for the arrival of the command station, get the power supply and try it out.  You can learn a lot just messing around with it and when you do decide to upgrade, you should have a pretty good idea what you'll be looking for.

One thing is for sure.  Your decoder equipped locos ought not run any different on the older MRC system you bought than on the most sophisticated system available-number of programmable speed steps not withstanding.  After that, it is all about the 'bells and whistles' isn't it?

Mike

[Driline]

Don't listen to Stevert just yet. He's a Digitrax Zealot. I recommend you hold both Digitrax and NCE throttles in your hand and purchase the one that you find most comfortable to use. Both are easily upgradable to handle your multiple locomotive needs.

[Texas Zepher]

I'd like to hide the switch machines for the six turnouts I will be using on the door layout but I don't know how. I don't know want to mount switch machines on the underside of the layout as I want to be able to lay the door down on a table or bench without worring about equipment or wiring on the underside. Any ideas?

Depending on the thickness of the turnout motors, cut open the underside of the door and mount the turnout motors on the underside of the "top" side.  If the motors are shallow enough they should not stick out of the bottom of the door.   If they are still too thick, put a couple of runners on the bottom of the door to make it stand up a little when laid flat on the floor.

For the large layout I jumped the gun by purchasing an MRC Command 2000 from Ebay. I haven't received it yet, but it is just the command station, no remote, no power pack, etc.

The MRC Command 2000 will take almost any power supply.  I used an old MRC Ampak to power mine.  Remote throttles should be cheap, but remember the Command 2000 has three throttles built into the base unit.  The real issues with the Command-2000 is that it will only take locomotives on certain channels and it has only 14 speed steps.   Unless it is new in the shrink wrap you might want to try it out before you give up on it out-of-hand.   I also have a Lenz and a Digitrax Zephyr unit.  I have not thrown out the two Command-2000s.  One does Christmas tree duty and the other is used by the children.  In some ways they are better for one person running several trains (as is the CVP - yes yet another brand - dual throttle command station).

I'd like to know your recommendations for a starter DCC system that will account for the expansion that I have outlined above. Specifically, would you recommend a Zephyr or one of the NCE systems?

Well in some ways that is an apple and orange discussion.  The NCE starter system is hand held while the Zephyr is a tabletop type.   As a prior poster noted, go to a hobby store and tryout the "feel" of the Digitrax expansion throttles against the NCE hammer heads.  I personally don't like the great big monster throttle, but neither do I like the Digitrax beasts.   Both companies have smaller "utility" throttles that work great for running the train you might want to consider.  Then there is also the wireless question.  Wireless is wonderful and the two companies have taken different directions there.    I prefer the CVP size wireless throttles.  They are narrow so I can operate them with one hand.  But I degress.... 

On the expandability issue that needs more definition.  One can expand by adding the throttles discussed above.  One can expand by adding power boosters for more locomotives on the track.  Or both.  Expanding by adding a computer interface.   Expanding to wireless.  Personally I would not worry about expansion, just worry about figuring out what you like in a unit.  Could be that by the time to expand, the system is replaced by a newer model anyway.

There have to be hundreds of threads on this exact topic.  A simple search should bring up bunches of answers.   There is no "right" answer, there is no "best" system.   What I like and my prejudices are only for me.  Only you can decide what is right for YOU.

[JackR]

I'm also a Rookie modeller (I've built & flew radio controlled all electric aircraft) and have decided to build a model railrod layout.

I can't decide which DCC power cab to purchase. I want a wireless unit. It's between the Digitrax wireless super chief OR the new Prodigy wireless from MRC.

I have read bad things about older MRC products, but so far I have not seen anything about this new and imporved Prodigy wireless from MRC.

Your comments and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks  Jack

[CSX Robert]

...The real issues with the Command-2000 is that it will only take locomotives on certain channels and it has only 14 speed steps...

One small correction, the Command 2000 will do 28 speed steps.

[middwest rookie]

Hi everyone. Thanks for all of your replies! Just what I was looking for...

My wife and I went to a train show at Union Station in Kansas City, MO today. We looked around, asked some questions and spent some money, of course!

Anyway, after being accosted by a local NCE rep who was very proud of his product I was lucky enough to talk to several folks that gave opinions very similar to what you guys have said. Ultimately, my wife and I are now looking for local clubs or model railroaders with DCC systems so that we can go get a feel for what we like. I'll be heading to the LHS to get some input there as well.

I picked up the 09 Walthers catalog as well, and it looks like the Caboose ground throws are perfect for the switches within reach. I think I will also try several of your other suggestions to get a feel for what works best for me. The whole point of my switching layout is that it serves as a testbed for experimenting and learning.

[dehusman]

My advice is not to bother with a starter system.  just go ahead and buy the 'real" system to begin with.  If you are planning to go DCC then you will want it anyway.  That way you get all the functionality right off the bat.  And a full system is no harder to learn than a starter system.  The difference is probably less than $200.

Also consider radio.  Not having cords is nice.

I personally have been using NCE for about 10 years and have used Lenz, Easy DCC and Digitrax on other layouts.  I personally found Digitrax the hardest to use, although the more modern throttles seem to be easier.

Easy DCC was easy to use but seemed to have some limitations on larger layouts (10-20 operators). 

NCE radio had some early radio problems (the two way communication between the throttle and the command station is restricted by the FCC to a lower power transmitter) but that was solved by repeater base stations (if your layout grows over a couple thousand square feet.)

Best advice is to try several of them and see what you like.

Dave H.