Paul, thanks for your response. I did order the Zephyr/power station package, along with a DCC Specialties booster for programming and reading Tsunami, LC Soundtraxx and Loksound decoders. From the helpful comments I've received, I learned that the NCE Power Cab was not the right system for my needs.
Your point about Digitrax not being willing to take my DB 150 in trade for a more reliable unit was well taken. I hadn't thought about that way, but what you've written makes sense to me.
I guess my concern about Digitrax decoders has become less of an issue. All but three Digitrax decoders have been replaced by sound decoders, and one of those is going to be replaced by a Loksound decoder.
In a couple of cases, I've installed TCS M-1 decoders for motor and light control while retaining Soundtraxx LC decoders for sound only. I decided not to wait for Soundtraxx to issue Diesel Tsunamis. In light of the fact that they just did that, I am still happy with my two-decoder installations.
For consisting, I will try again using my DT 400. This throttle is still new to me, having used the DT 300 for quite some time. For whatever reasons, I was not successful in consisting locos using the 300.
Contrary to what others on this forum may think of my post, I've read the manuals a number of times, and I've had my difficulties understanding some of them. The early manuals in support of my Genesis system had a number of errors, along with a number of unclear areas. Digitrax tech support has been good to explain how stuff works.
I remember railing about the early manuals on the Digitrax Yahoo Group (it was called something else before Yahoo), and received a lot of comment from fellow D-users with the same comments. Thankfully, the new manuals are clearer, and they lay flat on the table. I BIG improvement over the early center-stapled books!
Consisting on a Powercab;
Press setup.
Select consist #.
Enter leed loco, then dirrection.
Enter last loco, then dirrection.
Add mid loco, then dirrection.
Hit escape and go. The menus prompt you to enter the info.
After all that you can hit the momentum button and select from a range for the desired effect.
John
selector,The original poster said he was "thinking" about selling his Digitrax equipment on eBay. To me, that allows us to offer advice, both pro and con. It'd be different if he'd already made up his mind, but he hadn't.
ScottGroff,Your three issues:1). Reading CV's - There's only two systems that offer CV readback from Digitrax, the Chief (DCS100 = $226) and the Zephyr (DCS50 = $159). One can also use one's computer to read CV's provided you have something like the Digitrax PR-3 ($68) or something similar. http://www.digitrax.com/prd_compint_pr3.php
I don't think Digitrax is different from any other manufacturer when they refused to take your DB150 plus cash for a DCS100. If you bought an Atlas Classic RS-11 for $125, then offered to trade it to them plus $115 for an Atlas Gold GP40-2 at $240, I don't think they'd go for it. Most manufacturers don't have the desire or wherewithal to sell used equipment.
For non-functioning Digitrax decoders, I've had some success in resetting them. Usually, if you program CV08 to a value of 08, then the decoder will reset to factory defaults. I just did this last night at my club, and it "saved" a decoder from a trip to Digitrax. Back about 9 years ago, there was a "bad" batch of DH121's, and certain Dx163's have been known to have issues with lead fingers (due to the more stringent environmental regulations for solder). The new Dx165's so far haven't seen any wide spread problems. Decoders going bad is a fact of life, at least at my club. And we've sent back all kinds: MRC, QSI, Lenz, NCE, Digitrax, etc. It's just something we put up with to get DCC (tho' MRC is the worst).
At my club, we send a few throttles back each year, mostly DT400R's. People drop them, smack them, etc., and the chips can pop loose inside. I've had to send mine back once in 5 years. As for boosters and brains, none of the 9 boosters, two DCS100's, nor my Zephyr have been sent back, and that's over a 9 year span. I have had to send back an occasional auxiliary device like a BDL168 or a DS54, but that's only happened once.
2). Consisting - It just takes a little practice. I would start with the DT400 as it's the easiest to learn on, then go to the DT300.
When consisting with a DT400, you have two throttles. The lead engine of the consist goes on the right knob (activate right knob by turning it, press "LOCO", then the address number, then "ENTER"). The engine you are adding to or removing from the consist or MU goes on the left knob (turn the left knob, press "LOCO", then the address number, then "ENTER"). Once you've got both locos selected and running in the same direction, hit "MU" then "Y +". The locos are now MU'd together. To remove them from a consist, do the same above but hit "N -" instead.
When consisting with a DT300, it's the same idea, but handled differently. The lead engine of the consist goes on the right knob (activate right knob by turning it, press "SEL", then enter the address number by turning both knobs, then hit "SEL" again). The engine you are adding to or removing from the consist or MU goes on the left knob (turn the left knob, press "SEL", then enter the address number by turning the knobs, then hit "SEL" again). Once you've got both locos selected and running in the same direction, hit "MODE" twice, then press "Y +". The locos are now MU'd together. To remove them from a consist, do the same above but hit "N -" instead.
For programming, I would use the DT400, not the DT300. It's much easier, as all you have to do to get to programming mode is to hit the "PROG" button, rather than go through the pain that is the DT300.
I'm guessing the reason for having to turn the track power on each time with the DB150 was some kind of safety interlock because there is no seperate programming track. I agree, it's a pain. Be assured that the Zephyr and the Cheif don't have this problem.
Good luck in whatever you choose!
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
jbinkley60 wrote: jwils1 wrote: Scott:For roughly the same amount of money as a Power Cab you could get a Digitrax Zephyr. You already have the DT400 and these two make a nice combination. The Zephyr is a terrific little unit with great features and very easy to use. It has a little more power, a dedicated programming track where the main doesn't shut down while using the progamming track, and the DT400 gives you full mobility. There is also the option of buying a DCS-100 for a few dollars more, then he'd have a Super Chief system with additional features and a higher booster output. He could also keep the DB-150 as a second booster for even more power.
jwils1 wrote: Scott:For roughly the same amount of money as a Power Cab you could get a Digitrax Zephyr. You already have the DT400 and these two make a nice combination. The Zephyr is a terrific little unit with great features and very easy to use. It has a little more power, a dedicated programming track where the main doesn't shut down while using the progamming track, and the DT400 gives you full mobility.
Scott:
For roughly the same amount of money as a Power Cab you could get a Digitrax Zephyr. You already have the DT400 and these two make a nice combination. The Zephyr is a terrific little unit with great features and very easy to use. It has a little more power, a dedicated programming track where the main doesn't shut down while using the progamming track, and the DT400 gives you full mobility.
There is also the option of buying a DCS-100 for a few dollars more, then he'd have a Super Chief system with additional features and a higher booster output. He could also keep the DB-150 as a second booster for even more power.
both these options are valid if he is looking for an upgrade to reading back CV's?? but it seems the digitrax instructions are the issue and not the digitrax products he has and their limits. i would say that i have no issues with the instructions, you just have to read them!! i would think any system requires reading the instructions at some point. for all the basic stuff the quick start section of the instructions along with your eyes is pretty much all ABC stuff and i can't see how you can get it wrong IF you RTFM.
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
locoi1sa wrote: The NCE power cab should be plenty but you will be limited to 7 feet of cord. The Power cab and Smart booster will let you walk around and plug and unplug your throttle. Pete
The NCE power cab should be plenty but you will be limited to 7 feet of cord. The Power cab and Smart booster will let you walk around and plug and unplug your throttle. Pete
Before I upgraded to the SB3 I simply ordered a six wire coil cord from my supplier that was 10' long.
I do agree that the smart booster setup with the power panel from the Powercab uses a simple toggle and I can simply put the loco on the track,program and drive it off without further handling. Then you can switch back to the 4 wire coil cord that comes with the Powercab and move it around to your hearts content as the SB3 becomes the command station.
The deciding point for me was the menu driven programing, the ease of programing momentum, braking, light, teathered is a plus to me.
Biggest drawback is the recal stack is only 2, and the programing track setup(or none thereof).
So much to consider.
All you really have to do is connect a jumper between Config A and Ground on the DB150 to make it a booster only. Then connect a loconet cable between the Zephyr and the DB150. Leave the rest of your cables and jacks as is. Zephyr becomes the command station and the DB150 runs the layout.
I had the same Empire Builder setup as you and wanted read back so I added a Zephyr.If I need the Zephyr elsewhere, the jumper comes out on the DB150 and it can be used as the command station.
Connect a programming track to the Zephyr's programming terminals and you are set. Zephyr's controls can be used to run trains as well as your Dtxxx throttles. DT400 will give you up to F12.
BTW, the upcoming DT402d will give you 28 functions. DT400 will be upgradable but don't know the cost.
Martin Myers
I have owned and operated a Digitrax Chief (DCS100) with radio for about ten years and my chief is still going strong. I have Used DT100R, DT300R and DT400R with no problems. I gave up programming using the DT400 and have an MS100, old Windows 98 PC and decoder pro.
I might suggest that you consider getting the new Digitrax PR3 as it will allow you to read back CVs via Decoder Pro. The PR3 will also allow you to use your computer via Decoder Pro as a throttle.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
ScottGroff wrote:Since I am now considering the Zephyr, does anyone know if the 12-function controls of the DT 400 operate correctly with the Zephyr? Apparently, it only has 8 function buttons.
Yes when using the DT400 with the Zephyr you will have the 12 functions on that throttle and 8 on the Zephyr.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
What I was hoping to accomplish with my original post was to explain WHY I wanted to get rid of an operating Digitrax system (with admittedly more power than the NCE system) AND to find out if there were reasons why the NCE might not be a good choice.
Come to find out there may be at least two reasons not to go with the NCE PowerCab. Power to the track is only provided to the UTP panel. If you unplug the PowerCab, everything on the layout stops until you reconnect.
In addition, I believe I understand correctly that I would need to provide power to each one of the UTP panels distributed in four places on my layout. Not an expensive item but for me a problem due to limited wall outlets.
To get around all this, I would need a SmartBooster for another $80, making the PowerCab not particulary appealing, price wise. This was the kind of information I was trying to elicit.
Yes, I have made up my mind that the DB150 is not the right system for me. However, there were very few choices available when I bought my system. There were the 2 Digitrax systems, one Lenz system, and, at least on the West Coast, no other choices. NCE and Wangrow were not represented in any of the 4 hobby shops in the area. Had it been available, the Zephyr or something like it might have been a better choice and I am exploring whether that will work. I still find Lenz systems perplexing, so they are not in the running.
For the future, I ask that you not read more into what is posted than what is posted.
Engineer Jeff NS Nut Visit my layout at: http://www.thebinks.com/trains/
ScottGroff wrote:I hadn't thought of going that route. Does the Zephyr have connections for Loconet so I can use the fascia plug-in panels I have installed? The power supply I have is a 5 amp unit. Is that usable with the Zephyr? I see that there is a book issued about how to get the most out of the Zephyr. Do you know if it is necessary and usable?
Yes you can plug your loconet cable into the Zephyr and use all of your plug-in panels.
I believe you can use your 5 amp supply but I'm not sure of the best method. With your layout you probably don't need that much power. Maybe someone else can give you some advice on this.
There is a book called "Mastering the Zephyr". It's available from various sources, including Johns Hobbies www.johnshobbies.com I think it's $12.75 plus shipping. It's very basic guide on using the Zephyr and has extra, helpful DCC info. I think the Zephyr manual gives you the same stuff but this book kind of reinforces everything in the manual in a user friendly way. It's kind of like reading the manual a second time and gives you a better perspective of everything.
With any system I've ever used, a second reading of the manual has always allowed me to pick up things I missed the first time. Many NCE users say that they hardly ever use their manuals, but I say if you want to get full use of all features available to you, no matter which system, reading the manual pays dividends. But, after initial reading you will rarely need to go back to it for the most often used features.
The NCE power cab should be plenty but you will be limited to 7 feet of cord. The Power cab and Smart booster will let you walk around and plug and unplug your throttle. The plus side of the Power cab smart booster set up is then you can have a dedicated program track using the power cab panel to the program track only.
As for the power of 2 amps. I have had 5 sound and 7 non sound HO scale locos running at once with my old Power cab. I would have put more on but didnt have time to experiment. The P.C. has a built in AMP meter and it programs any decoder you throw at it.
I bought 2 D co decoders once and both fried on the program track. Sent them back and they wanted $15 each to fix. I only paid $20 each for the decoders and I said keep them. I have more than 50 decoders now and none say Digitrax.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
I must be lucky, too.
I have a Digitrax Chief, two throttles, 5 DS-64s, 2 decoders, and they all work flawlessly.
It all works well with the other brand decoders I have as well.
I do not find any Digitrax item to be complicated to use or any manual difficult to understand.
I always read the manual on line before deciding whether or not to buy the product.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
If he's made up his mind to go to NCE, so be it. The thing I continaully find amazing are the stories that some folks have with defective Digitrax parts. I started with a Radio Super Chief system. Added two more boosters, have over 30 Digitrax decoders (sound and no sound), 8 DS64s and more. In all of this I did have one DS64 go bad after about 9 months, which Digitrax promptly replaced at no charge and I had one decoder go bad (due to my clumsiness). Otherwise things have been flawless, even when I've made some wiring goofs. I struggle to believe I am this lucky.
ScottGroff
Brother I feel your pain. The fourth time I sent my Zephyr back to the factory I ask for my money back, I'm happy to say they did that. A year and a half later my NCE power cab still runs two trains with both having A+B units with sound. I Have three other sound units idling on the tracks. Of course my trains are just 13 cars long and if I get anything else Ill have to up grade. I'm very pleased.
Lee
Paul, what I find particularly perplexing are three issues: -- not being able to read back CV settings, consisting, and having to reset the power after using the programming track.
The first becomes a problem when trying to program a complex decoder set as a Loksound. It would be nice to know what CV settings are standard from the manufacturer. ON the second trip back to Digitrax for repair of the DB150, I asked the President (2004 PSX) if I could pay the difference to get a command station that WILL reback CVs. The answer was a curt, "No," with no explanation, no reasoning -- just a flat "No."
I only have two Digitrax decoders left but at one time ALL my locos had Digitrax exclusively. That was probably 15-16 locos at the time (I've since culled the fleet down); of those at least 3 decoders were sent back for repairs (not wiring problems on my part -- they just stopped working).
At $17 each, that got expensive and I stopped doing it. In my opinion, Digitrax has some quality control problems. In addition to the command station being sent back twice over the years, and the decoder repairs, the DT300 has gone back once for repair.
For consisting, I have tried twice with the instructiop manual open in front of me and neither effort worked. I gave up after that as it wasn't all that important.
When programming a new decoder, I can never remember if I have to hit "Power," "Yes," "Power," or do I have to hit "Yes" again. Having to do this at all strikes me as being particuarly bogus.
Cheap DPDT swithches are available from places like Radio Shack, but mine is unique.
My program track is an isolated dead end siding.
I have an Atlas snap relay like you would use to power a live frog, wired in parallel with the switch that controls the siding.
When the switch is thrown, there is track power to the siding and an engine can be driven in or out.
When the switch is closed, the siding is powered by the program output and trains approaching the switch will bypass the siding
Phoebe Vet,
You are absolutely correct. That's why I stated "similar", not exactly.
I guess you could argue that they aren't similar at all. Technically, you could have both the main AND programming track on at the same time with the set up I had. It's what I had available at the time and I knew to turn off one while engaging the other.
Thanks for pointing that out.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
You know, for as often as this topic crops up, I am resolved that some folks can interpret the Digitrax system and instructions, as well as tolerate them, and others simply can't. This is mirrored at the same time by the few people who have reported here that they intend to revert to DC after not having successfully made the transition to DCC. They just don't work well or comfortably enough for some folks. We should all just live with that fact and let folks get on with finding their paths in their pursuit of enjoyment in the hobby. Life is short enough, and it is up to each of us to get a firm grip on contentment in this hobby...which can be achieved about 60 different ways.
To the originating poster, I think your mind is made up. If you have gotten what you apparently feel is all reasonable satisfaction out of your Digtrax system, by all means buy something that will do better.
TStage:
Get out your multimeter and check that switch of which you posted a picture.
I believe you will find that it is actually 3 SINGLE pole Single throw switches with the other side of the circuit always connected.
Scott,In what way do you find instructions and procedures cumbersome with Digitrax? I've been a Digitrax user for 9 years, and I've owned my own Zephyr and DT400R's for 5 years or more. What specifically is vexing you about them?
ScottGroff wrote:Second, for those of you who have the NCE PowerCab, can the power supply be wired to the DPDT toggle switch that I use to alternate between layout power and programming track power? It looks like the instructions call for the power supply to be wired to a fascia plug in panel.Third, can I reuse the Digitrax standard fascia plug in panels (not UR90s) with the NCE system? Both systems appear to use the same 6-conductor flat cable for network connections, and the panel that comes in the box with the NCE appears to be the same as for Digitrax.
Second, for those of you who have the NCE PowerCab, can the power supply be wired to the DPDT toggle switch that I use to alternate between layout power and programming track power? It looks like the instructions call for the power supply to be wired to a fascia plug in panel.
Third, can I reuse the Digitrax standard fascia plug in panels (not UR90s) with the NCE system? Both systems appear to use the same 6-conductor flat cable for network connections, and the panel that comes in the box with the NCE appears to be the same as for Digitrax.
Scott,
The Power Cab's wall transformer will still need to be connected to the PCP panel first. (LEFT port.) The track wires can then be attached to the DPDT switch so that you can toggle between the main and the programming track. I did something similar using a simple Atlas "slide" connector (like the one pictured below) and it worked just fine.
Also, the Power Cab's PCP panel is powered (i.e. that's where the power for the Power Cab comes from) so you can't use a Digitrax panel in place of it. As mentioned above, the LEFT port of the Power Cab's PCP panel is for powering the Power Cab and it has to be connected to that in order for it operate. Conversely, if you disconnect the Power Cab from the PCP panel, the layout shuts down. The RIGHT port is for an extra throttle.
The Power Cab would be able to handle a 70 sq. ft. layout with no problems. Hope that helps...
I have had the DB-150 since it was one of the two systems Digitrax offered. Since then I've added a DT300 and DT400 throttle, and an infrared UR90. And I STILL find the instructions and procedures cumbersome!
I am thinking of selling my system on eBay (DB150, both throttles, the UR90, a panel-mount ammeter, and a Loy's Toys "Fuel Cell" power supply) and replacing it with the latest NCE PowerCab. I realize that it only offers 2 amps of power vs. the DB150's 5 amps. But from what I've read about the NCE, it is simpler in operation, simpler instructions and comes with its own power supply. And my layout is only 70 sq. ft. I doubt I will ever run more than two locos at one time.
First, I'd appreciate pros and cons for this switch.