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dcc conversion?

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  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: UNITED KINGDOM
  • 64 posts
Posted by iomtt on Wednesday, July 2, 2008 5:07 PM

Hi Irv,  

I have completed one chassis successfully, although it is the B unit for the E8 which uses the same chassis without the light of course.

I removed the tab on the motor touchin the chassis and used the tab trimmed to solder the orange wire to, remove the old black wire from the other motor side in preparation for the grey wire.
Where the old wire leads to the front truck from motor brush i removed the metal plate, leaving the original sprung stud resting on the plastic plate.
On the front truck the copper tracks on the underside of the brown central plate were cleaned along with the wheels, on the topside of the truck a roughened a spot on each of the two chrome like plates to accept solder with an abrasive wheel in the minicraft drill was needed red to one plate black repeated on the other the wires threaded through the slit in the plastic where the previously removed metal contact had been.
Out wth the voltmeter for testing on dc track of the pick ups, (if the truck is tested alone make sure the truck retaining screw is removed as the spring pushes it to the contact tracks on the little brown board)with the front truck the hole on top of the plate where the retaining screw passes through to the chassis it needs a tiny piece of tape just as insurance to save any shorts, i left the light wires a little long for future use of the decoder in another loco, the front wires were left long to allow movement, a TCS M1 decoder was fitted and tested voila success.

Pictures of the fnished chassis are here http://nick--orwin.photoblog.me.uk/p51656181.html click on the pic to see the other views.

more informatoin on the chassis  can  be  found  at  these  other  links ......http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/rive8.html 

             http://members.aol.com/dgosha/E8s.html

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: NYC
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Posted by corsair7 on Tuesday, July 1, 2008 7:51 AM
 iomtt wrote:

I  am debating  as to  whether four  of my n scale locos  are  worth  persuing and fitting  a decoder  .........  i  would  be  very interested  if  anyone  has  converted  either of  them  as  they  work  great  on dc, they are both EMD E8  types two   Atlas  made in italy  versions,  and  two undecorated kato/concor EMD E8'S they  are  marked  under the  fuel  tank   'concor japan'  leading  me  to believe  the chassis  and  motor  are from  kato   as  they  are  silent  silk  smooth runners.

Any  help  would  be appreciated.

Thanks.   

Chances are the can be converted but you might need to get digiframes for them or get someone to mill down the frames so you can fit a decoder under the shells. Either way, you are going have to get the right decoder and hard wire those decoders to the motor. You'll also have to replace the light bulbs with LEDs as well.

I have 7 old N-Scale diesels which I know aren't worth the trouble of converting since the new stuff really runs much better or so I've been told. The only ones that have any use left in them or three Trix diesels (1 C30 and 2 F-7s) but the documentation that comes with the new Digitrax Zephyr I'm waiting for says I can run one of them with no decoder installed on address 0000 so maybe I don't resally have to do anything with them.

Irv

Irv

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: UNITED KINGDOM
  • 64 posts
Posted by iomtt on Friday, June 27, 2008 8:33 PM

I  am debating  as to  whether four  of my n scale locos  are  worth  persuing and fitting  a decoder  .........  i  would  be  very interested  if  anyone  has  converted  either of  them  as  they  work  great  on dc, they are both EMD E8  types two   Atlas  made in italy  versions,  and  two undecorated kato/concor EMD E8'S they  are  marked  under the  fuel  tank   'concor japan'  leading  me  to believe  the chassis  and  motor  are from  kato   as  they  are  silent  silk  smooth runners.

Any  help  would  be appreciated.

Thanks.   

  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Southwest US
  • 12,914 posts
Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, June 27, 2008 9:31 AM

Caveat - I run analog DC and have no intention to convert.

That said, I have some HOj brass that's older than one of the presidential candidates that would be easy to convert, huge old open-frame motors and all.

The main consideration is, Does the engine run well on DC?  If the gear train sounds like a meat grinder, the answer is, Don't waste a decoder.  OTOH, if it's quiet and smooth, move on to the next question.

How hard is it to isolate the motor brushes from the locomotive frame?  You don't have to isolate the whole motor if the brushes can be isolated.  In many cases, all it takes is breaking one solder joint.  I have several motors with wishbone brush tensioning springs.  All it takes to isolate the 'grounded' brush is to slip a piece of insulation onto the uninsulated spring end.

Now, Is there room for a decoder?  Several of the locomotives are box cab electrics with cavernous car bodies - all kinds of room.  The second worst, a 2-6-2T, has enough space above the window line in the cab or inside the coal bunker to take a late model decoder (no sound, though.)  The impossible dream is an 0-4-0T with a solid lead superstructure that fits around the vertical shaft motor like a glove.  That's the DCC deal-breaker for me.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, MZL system)

  • Member since
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  • From: Maryland
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Posted by mikebo on Friday, June 27, 2008 7:28 AM
It depends on what they are, how much current do they draw and how smooth they run. I have converted some 20+ year old HO Atlas and Athearn locos to DCC with good success.  I also have some Athearn's that drew too much current.  I have found that TCS T-1 decoders seem to work very well with some of the older locos.
Mike Modeling Maryland Railroads in the 60's (plus or minus a few years)
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Posted by SirPeter on Friday, June 27, 2008 4:13 AM

I agree with Mr B and Jeffrey, however, having experienced the same problem myself I decided to run my old unconverted DC locos on a seperate layout within the DCC layout making sure that neither system can accidently cross over onto the wrong system. It works well and looks fine. This way you avoid the extra expence of converting difficult locos and/or the replacement of old stock. Hope this helps.

Peter 

 

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  • From: Bedford, MA, USA
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Thursday, June 26, 2008 11:07 PM

I agree with Jeffrey.  I had a bunch of engines, mostly Athearns, in the 40 to 50 year old range.  I put decoders in 4 or 5 of them, but they ran so poorly that I took the decoders and motors out and made them into dummy, or "honorary," engines to run in consists.  Only one of these was worth leaving powered on my layout.  It's so noisy that it's not worth putting sound in, but it's a link with my childhood.

But, yours are much newer.  You may be in luck.  The general rule is "If it runs well on DC, it can be converted to DCC, and it will be OK.  If it doesn't run well on DC, don't bother.  It won't run well on DCC, either."

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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  • From: Orig: Tyler Texas. Lived in seven countries, now live in Sundown, Louisiana
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Posted by jeffrey-wimberly on Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:16 PM

I converted a thirty year old Bachmann to DCC BEFORE I remotored it, so it can be done. There are some things you need to ask yourself though.

1. Is it worth it? 

2. How much trouble is it going to be?

3. Will I need to remotor in order to convert?

4. Would it be cheaper to buy new equipment?

 

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:13 PM

Ya it depends on the engine...but remember when DCC started there was no such thing as a "DCC ready engine" yet people made the conversion. You can convert any engine to DCC if you want, it might take some effort, but you can do it.

The biggest thing with older engine is isolating the engine from the frame. On Mantua/Tyco steam for example, this involves removing the screw holding the engine on, putting down some sheet plastic or rubber tape on the chassis, and replacing the motor using a nylon screw.

Stix
  • Member since
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  • From: Colorful Colorado
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Thursday, June 26, 2008 8:01 PM
 lehigh switcher wrote:
I have been told that my engines are too old for dcc.  I was told that if I hooked them up to dcc they would probably burn up.  I need to know if I need to buy new equipment or if what I have can be used.
As the others have already said it depends on how old is old, and exactly what they are.   I've never meet a locomotive that could not be converted to DCC.  The catch is that older locomotives that pull a lot of current will need special decoders made for them.  That kind of decoder is always more expensive.  OR there is the option of the fun job of re-motoring them.....
  • Member since
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  • From: Vail, AZ
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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:56 PM

 lehigh switcher wrote:
I have been told that my engines are too old for dcc.  I was told that if I hooked them up to dcc they would probably burn up.  I need to know if I need to buy new equipment or if what I have can be used.  Please help!

It all depends on what you have.  If it runs well on DC, it can probably be made to run well on DCC.  There may be some work onvolved.

More details would be helpful!

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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  • From: NYC
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Posted by corsair7 on Thursday, June 26, 2008 7:05 PM

 lehigh switcher wrote:
I have been told that my engines are too old for dcc.  I was told that if I hooked them up to dcc they would probably burn up.  I need to know if I need to buy new equipment or if what I have can be used.  Please help!

I've been told the same thing. I tend to believe it since all of my old stuff dates from the early to mid 1980s. And since they're N-Scale, the insides need to be milled down to allow a decoder to placed in them. So you might be getting some good advice about getting new stuff.

Irv

  • Member since
    June 2008
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dcc conversion?
Posted by lehigh switcher on Thursday, June 26, 2008 6:53 PM
I have been told that my engines are too old for dcc.  I was told that if I hooked them up to dcc they would probably burn up.  I need to know if I need to buy new equipment or if what I have can be used.  Please help!

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