I operate my layout with analogue DC and have no intention to change to DCC. This saturday I bought a LL Proto2000 GE U23B with QSI sound and control. It took me some time of trial and error to get the best out of the QSI possibilties but now I'm quite happy with it. I also have a Genesis F7 AB set with the (old?) MRC sound/control decoder and small handheld soundcontroller.The QSI sound is far superior to the MRC sound and of course much easier to control. Now my question: is it feasible to exchange the MRC decoder for a QSI decoder? and if so which one and where are they to be had.
Nieuweboer,
I don't believe QSI decoders are available yet for after-market installations. They've been talking about it for a while now but nothing has materialized yet. You may want to consider one of the ESU LokSound decoders instead.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
That DCC engine may get cranky on DC if you cut off the voltage too much or too early or too little. They will then get cranky and need a reset.
The older QSI engines had a manual pot switch to reset easily, but today's engines either have a reed which may or may not work and sometimes require a set of 3 cv values entered via DCC for a reset.
QSI is on the verge of releasing thier aftermarket decoder for installs into analog engines. They are very much anticipated.
I take it you already discovered how crappy the MRC decoder is against the QSI?
You WILL run DCC some day.
That first sound/dcc engine is the first crack in the opening door towards DCC.
Enjoy!
Actually, I wonder if a lot of folks are still thinking wishfully.
http://www.ulrichmodels.biz/servlet/the-300/Quantum-Revoluton-Sound-and/Detail
This page listed them as being out in Feb 2008 LAST WEEK. It's already moved to March. Tony's Trains had an ad in the Feb issue of MR, listed price and all. Stated Feb delivery. But nothing on Tony's website.
Maybe QSI is at least getting close
There's no need to dis those of us who, for whatever our reason, will not upgrade to DCC.
If DCC was available 50 years ago, it would have been an option, but having accumulated a large roster of DC motive power switching this late in the game is not an option. I would rather use that money to acquire some of the New River Point Station EP-3s and EF-3s, and the 8600 stainless steel coaches when they are available. I can see them operating on my track, but I can't see the DCC operate.
I have just received , my BLI New Haven I-5s with Quantum sound and bought the Quantum Engineer. If that works like I heard that it works, DCC will never be an option for me, especially when the after market sound unit becomes available, not matter how long it takes.
Never say never.
You will learn about CV's then you will want to adjust those cv's perhaps reset your engine etc.
Prices for DCC is falling by the year.
It's possible that analog engines will fall below a price point that they dont get produced much if at all in the future.
BigRusty wrote: I have just received , my BLI New Haven I-5s with Quantum sound and bought the Quantum Engineer. If that works like I heard that it works, DCC will never be an option for me, especially when the after market sound unit becomes available, not matter how long it takes.
I too use the Quantum Engineer for my P2K U28B loco (my only sound engine at the moment). It really is a cool piece of equipment for us DC users. Once I acquire a larger house and thus build a larger layout, (and of course acquire more sound equipped locos) I will likely wire it for DCC. I agree with you that DCC may never be an option for some (heck, I may not get that bigger house for 10 years or more, or maybe never), and the QE makes a nice compromise. I'm not going to all the trouble and expense to convert a 4x8 layout to DCC! The only bad thing is that as many have noted, we are currently limited to QSI-equipped locos until QSI gets off their b*tts and finally releases their decoders. I've got a couple of F-units that I would love to get sound on. That's my $0.02.
**Deploys calculator...
4 F units ABBA @ 170 dollars factory sound
4 QSI after market decoders 140 or so plus 100 per engine.
UGH.
I think the Blueline design was simply having the QSI removed and resold the entire line for DC users.
Then we learn that we need a motor decoder etc.
The good news is BLI is releasing several NEW engines that will be equipped with QSI once again.
Another thing about DCC is brands of decoders, control systems etc. Having several different providers of DCC on the locomotive fleet really makes things a bit too complicated and requires a three ring binder full of notes on each engine individually.
Set a cv, you forget that value unless you write it down.
DC will always have a special place. But I consider them expendable guinea pigs during early track laying and testing before deploying the DCC. That 20 dollar ebay junker can catch fire and burn and it wont hurt my feelings none. That means I can fix the problem before going showtime with the big stuff.
That's true, that was one reason for me to use one of the computers in the home for that programming work.
Dont worry, if I buy Roundhouse engines, they will be analog models with a NCE decoder or similar installed, the only problem I have left to solve is a sound speaker installation.
davidmbedard wrote: Bapou wrote:The QSI decoders are coming out this month.Link?David B
Bapou wrote:The QSI decoders are coming out this month.
Link?
David B
They do have them coming, as when I was working for Tony at Springfield that was a common question. Too bad they are delayed till March now though. Sorry I dont have a link but you could call Tony's, the # is on their site.
David wrote: DCC system will run you into the thousands of dollars. This is completely false.
That's easy for you to say, David, but using your words, is completely false.
I purchased my first 12 HO engines in 1948 when I saw the light and switched from O Gauge to HO. Over the past 60 years I have purchased AT LEAST 2 engines a year sometimes more. I likely have about 150, at least.
At $50.00 a pop for a decoder and sound, I would be looking at about $7,500.00. I believe that DOES run into the thousands of dollars. Wait, there's more, I can save money if I do the work myself. At 2 hours a pop I would spend over 300 hours, that is the equivalent of over a month of 8 hour days, if I even had that much tiime to devote to it. DCC is a wonderful improvement over DC analog, especially if you are just starting out. But, the investment in dollars and time are far to high for such a little benefit.
Not a option, means just that. NOT AN OPTION!
davidmbedard wrote: Have you ever tried DCC? I work at a LHS, and I get alot (ALOT) of nay-sayers like yourself, and the moment they have a hands on, with multiple systems, they change their minds. It seams that there are cliques of anit-dcc people that like to share mis-information with eachother. Mis-information like "I cannot run DC locomotives with any DCC systems", or a DCC system will run you into the thousands of dollars. This is completely false. You CAN run DC locos with some systems.....and run them well. Decoders have come down in price and the feature sets have sky-rocketed. For 20 dollars a locomotive, you get a first class decoder with lots of satisfying features. Look at how much the QE costs, then you can see that you could have installed 3-4 decoders for that price.Im an not trying to 'dis' anyone here, just trying to inform.David B
Have you ever tried DCC? I work at a LHS, and I get alot (ALOT) of nay-sayers like yourself, and the moment they have a hands on, with multiple systems, they change their minds. It seams that there are cliques of anit-dcc people that like to share mis-information with eachother. Mis-information like "I cannot run DC locomotives with any DCC systems", or a DCC system will run you into the thousands of dollars. This is completely false. You CAN run DC locos with some systems.....and run them well.
Decoders have come down in price and the feature sets have sky-rocketed. For 20 dollars a locomotive, you get a first class decoder with lots of satisfying features. Look at how much the QE costs, then you can see that you could have installed 3-4 decoders for that price.
Im an not trying to 'dis' anyone here, just trying to inform.
I don't think anyone here is putting down DCC or in any sort of "clique" to bash it. It's a fantastic leap forward for the hobby, and I'll do it eventually. But you seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum of people who seem to think that people who DON'T go DCC are somehow ignorant and misinformed. That's pretty insulting. There are many reasons NOT to go DCC, and not everyone who elects to stay DC is "misinformed".
davidmbedard wrote: I don't think anyone here is putting down DCC or in any sort of "clique" to bash it. It's a fantastic leap forward for the hobby, and I'll do it eventually. But you seem to be on the opposite end of the spectrum of people who seem to think that people who DON'T go DCC are somehow ignorant and misinformed. That's pretty insulting. There are many reasons NOT to go DCC, and not everyone who elects to stay DC is "misinformed".I never said that. Again, I have a unique perspective as I have to deal with customers on a daily basis. I can only speak from experience.David B
I never said that.
Again, I have a unique perspective as I have to deal with customers on a daily basis. I can only speak from experience.
No but you insinuated it. I felt compelled to respond because you were making broad generalizations about those of us who have not gone DCC. It's not worth making a big argument over, but I think that you should be more conscious about how you come across in posts. It's a great hobby no matter whether you run DC or DCC, steam or diesel, HO or N or O or S or Z, and people (usually) have legit reasons for choosing what they model. That's MY point, and we're way off topic now anyway.
I still think the QE is a pretty cool device, and I'm sticking to it!
I seems like I've thrown a stick in a hornets or snake's nest with my question that opened this thread. I may now add that I've bought and installed a Quantum Engineer and I think that my QSI equipped unit now is the best buy in a long time. My LHS still has one or two QSI equipped Proto 2000 switchers at the very reduced price of about $200 (yes, that's the prices we have to pay over here)and I think I'll buy one to add to my roster. I'm not opposed to DCC but even installing decoders in my latest locomotives will cost quite alot of money and to that one has to add the cost the rest of the hardware needed to operate. Prices over here are not what they are in Amertica probably because there is less competition. \anyway with a shelf layout of 13x13 who needs DCC.
Nieuweboer wrote: I seems like I've thrown a stick in a hornets or snake's nest with my question that opened this thread.
I seems like I've thrown a stick in a hornets or snake's nest with my question that opened this thread.
Nah, I was just calling out David because I felt he was a little harsh on the non-DCC'ers, but it was just a matter of opinion and not worth extending the thread. In any event, David is right that the QE does give non-Quantum locos some problems if you are trying to run a DC-only with a DCC at the same time. But it makes a nice solution for DC-ers who don't really want to go to the trouble of upgrading to DCC (yet!). BTW, I paid $42.95 for my QE at my LHS. List is $64.95.
Just FYI, I knew the MRC decoder was crap when I bought my Genesis F3 PRR set (only one "correct" for early PRR), so I bought the non-sound units. On a gamble I bought a "cheap" BLI F7 set on Ebay (power lead broke on truck- 10 minute fix, YAY!) for $175. I thought I would try cramming the QSI decoder/sound system into the Gen F units. BTW QSI started in G scale I think, so their stuff is huge by comparison, to other mfg (except revolution).
To my delight and amazement, the shells are 100% intercahngeable. They have the exact same mounting arrangements (clips built into the window glass inserts), and the Genesis F3's now have QSI sound in less than 5 min (plus the 10 min solder job), and for less than $100 each.
I have learned that BLI does sell a power chassis for F units with sound and decoder for $115.
Be careful as Genesis uses the same chasis for A and B units, BLI does not and the B chasis ony works on B shells (so you can put two speakers in B shells).
Sorry for all the parenthetical phrases (it's a habbit)!
I know that DCC has nothing or maybe little to do with size but with features. Still I personally don't miss the main feature of DCC e.g. individual control of locomotives. I can operate two locomotives at the same time (not on the same track, that's true) and now that I have most of the other features wirh my QSI equipped locomotives and Quantum Controller I can live happily with my DC layout. And, I'm not ashamed to confess that I find alot of the discussions and advice that I read about DCC very difficult to understand if at all at my age (I'm 71).
I paid around the equivalent of $ 100 for the Broadway Quantum Controller. The LifeLike conroller is cheaper but only available on paper. Buying an item like that in the US doesn't help much because when S&H as well as import duties and sales tax (19%) are added the end price comes close to what I paid.
|As to the cost of decoders and other hardware, I must confess that I have never studied these seriously but from what I've seen the prices are quite a bit higher than at your side unless one settles for used or below state of the art material.
Hans